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Author: azzacke

Kapal Perang Tercanggih Di Rantau Asia Tenggara..

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jebon This user has been deleted
Post on 12-1-2005 09:42 AM |All posts
TLDM perlu juga mengambil kira kesan gempabumi,tsunami terhadap base yang sedia ada ataupun yang bakal dibina.Ada base yang terlindung dan ada juga yang terdedah.Jadikan kes Thailand ni sebagai study item.Kes sebegini pernah berlaku diTurki sedikit masa dulu.Ada kapal dan crew terlibat dengan gempa bumi yang memusnahkan pangkalan diLaut Hitam .
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mmc  

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Post on 13-1-2005 11:20 AM |All posts
some update on tentera laut serantau..

New Thai OPVS


The Royal Thai Navy's first Offshore Patrol Vessel (OPV) has been launched from the China State Shipbuilding Corporation (CSSC) yard in Shanghai. In late 2002 Thailand awarded a contract for the new vessels to the CSSC and Bangkok Naval Dockyard for the construction of two OPVs. The design of the 2,000 tons ship resembles a Chinese F22 Class frigate, but with a shortened forecastle. It retains the superstructure design.

The OPV will be fitted with a 76mm OTO Melara gun and FFBNW 8 Surface-to-Surface missiles. The flight-deck and hangar are suitable for operating a medium-size helicopter. The 85m long vessels have twin shafts and controllable pitch propellers plus are able to maintain a continuous speed of 23+ knots. Their operational range is about 3,500 nm.

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More Chinese Frigates
The Peoples Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) has ordered 30 new stealthy frigates of the Type 054 Class, of which two are currently under construction at the Hudong Shipyard in Shanghai and the Huangpu Shipyard in Guangzhou.

Originally believed to be a class of eight, these new warships have been chosen to replace Jianghu Class frigates, of which there are still 31 in service.

Two Type 054s are already in commission. Based on the short time it took for the first two to enter service, it is anticipated that the entire class of 30 frigates may have joined the fleet by around 2018, or even sooner, if more production lines are opened.

The 4,000 tons ships, with a length of 125m, are based on the Saudi Sawari II Class design.

However, the Chinese variant has a more advanced Anti-Air Warfare (AAW) capability, although the ships' primary mission will be ASW and ASuW. The Type 054s are fitted with: The Chinese Giat 100mm/56 stealth gun mount on the forecastle; four Mashzavod AK-630 Close-in Weapon Systems (CIWS); an HQ-7 Surface-to-Air Missile (SAM) launch system; eight C-801 and C-802 SSMs and two Type 87 Anti-Submarine Warfare rocket launchers.

The Combined Diesel and Gas Turbine (CODAG) propulsion gives the ships a maximum speed of 28 knots and an operational range of 2500nm at 18 knots.

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...And A Trimaran
ACertainly one of the most impressive trimaran-hulled vessels to be commissioned thus far is the PLAN's new No.2208 design. The ship began carrying out trials on the Yangtze River earlier this year but appears to have finished them under direction of CSSC at Shanghai shipyard by late-September. While at-sea missile trails have not yet taken place, engineering and systems trials may be finished. Seen pier-side in Shanghai, the vessel appears to be fully outfitted with armament and electronics.

These are thought to include: An AK-630 CIWS multi-barrel system forward; one SR.47C air/surface search multi-role (locally built Thomson-CSF DRBV-15A) and one Type 765 navigation radar; two chaff dispensers and various Electronic Counter-Measure/Electronic Support Measure (ECM/ESM).

The missile launchers appear to be loaded via forward slanted loading doors. The missile system is likely to be the C-802 Ying Ji anti-ship weapon, with provision for six or eight rounds likely.

This vessel may be the first of a long-series, provided trials have proved successful and all observed systems are existing types not likely to be troublesome to integrate. China has some 50 (1950s generation) Fast Attack Craft (FACs) that need replacing plus at least another 50 ashore for emergency activation. New units could begin to emerge as early as mid-2005 and a series of 30 or so might extend construction for a decade.
http://www.warshipsifr.com/pages/signal.html#Anchor-New-49575

[ Last edited by mmc on 13-1-2005 at 11:26 AM ]
"Behind this mask is a man, and behind this man is an idea. And ideas are bulletproof."

"The nation which forgets its defenders will be itself forgotten." Calvin Coolidge

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"-Edward Burke

http://securemalaysia.blogspot.com/
http://mudzaffar.blogspot.com/
http://jerung-perkasa.blogspot.com/
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mmc  

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Post on 13-1-2005 11:47 AM |All posts
interesting discussion on the thai opv and gambar2 construction dalam forum ni....nampak menarik opv thai ni

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk ... p=486001#post486001
"Behind this mask is a man, and behind this man is an idea. And ideas are bulletproof."

"The nation which forgets its defenders will be itself forgotten." Calvin Coolidge

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"-Edward Burke

http://securemalaysia.blogspot.com/
http://mudzaffar.blogspot.com/
http://jerung-perkasa.blogspot.com/
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Post on 13-1-2005 11:54 AM |All posts
What I am interested to know is whether the material used by the Chinese for the OPVs are in anyway superior or even equivalent to European made vessel?

What about the RCS of the design? Is it reduced in a significant way?

The Chinese have been good at reverse enginering, while the Thais are looking for cheap vessels to replace their older ships.

R6

[ Last edited by RainbowSix on 14-1-2005 at 01:26 AM ]
'Si vis pacem para pacem'
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Post on 13-1-2005 07:02 PM |All posts
yg xsedapnye OPV diorang guna CMS yg sama ngan NGPV, ai..xde keje lain ke diorang ni?punya byk CMS cam kite gak yg diorang carik..dah le Super lynx pon ikot2, gatal ke hape?dulu kite bli F18 diorang pon gatey gak tp tarak pulus..kot dak same lagiii..
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mmc  

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Post on 14-1-2005 09:14 AM |All posts
Originally posted by RainbowSix at 13-1-2005 11:54 AM:
What I am interested to know is whether the material used by the Chinese for the OPVs are in anyway superior or even equivalent to European made vessel?

What about the RCS of the design? Is it r ...


actually R6 I was writing my reply but the black-out wipe it out b4 it could be posted...

actually reports have implied that the french provided covert support to the chinese esp on the design, but not sure if this included metallurgical assistance...but it doesn't make sense if the ship looks stealthy w/out the materials providing RCS reduction abilities since as far as i know, it is the material and design that gives the appearance, hence the tendency of 'stealth ships' to start looking alike...:cak:

such rcs reduction support has occured b4 for the indian project with assistance from canadian design house and korean KDX from BAE....

if you look at photos of the stealth destroyer and frigates here...you would notice that the hull material is quite out of ordinary from their previous ship designs..so this indicates there has been some progress in their metallurgical process..

http://www.sinodefence.com/navy/surface/052c.asp
http://www.sinodefence.com/navy/surface/051b.asp
"Behind this mask is a man, and behind this man is an idea. And ideas are bulletproof."

"The nation which forgets its defenders will be itself forgotten." Calvin Coolidge

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"-Edward Burke

http://securemalaysia.blogspot.com/
http://mudzaffar.blogspot.com/
http://jerung-perkasa.blogspot.com/
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Post on 15-1-2005 10:17 PM |All posts
I was reading some articles about the F 3000S Sawari II class frigates. Its hull and superstructure are made entirely of steel. Although the hull and the design incorporate stealth features, the materials (steel) used does have influence on the RCS.

On the other hand, the superstructure of the La Fayette is made of composite material as oppose to steel. Hence, the composite material does influence the rate of radar wave returns and its RCS. Which ship is more stealthier is an open debate.

The materials used on the Chinese PVs are different. Therefore, my interest on material used by the Chinese made vessels.

R6

[ Last edited by RainbowSix on 27-1-2005 at 02:57 AM ]
'Si vis pacem para pacem'
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mmc  

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Post on 17-1-2005 09:47 AM |All posts
R6,

Don't know much about metallurgy but i understand that even our lekiu's also have RCS reduction characteristics in the way the surface of the metal is somewhat corrugated....

a good article on ship stealth design is as follows :

http://www.armada.ch/02-4/article-full.cfm
"Behind this mask is a man, and behind this man is an idea. And ideas are bulletproof."

"The nation which forgets its defenders will be itself forgotten." Calvin Coolidge

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"-Edward Burke

http://securemalaysia.blogspot.com/
http://mudzaffar.blogspot.com/
http://jerung-perkasa.blogspot.com/
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Post on 17-1-2005 01:54 PM |All posts
Metallurgical and material...hmm..aku xtau sgt ttg material used in naval shipbuilding..tp stealth sbnrnya melibatkan pelbagai perkara,dari stealth akustik (bunyi), infra-red, magnetic, etc and most notably radar.

skang aku cite skit dr segi radar..ramai yg beranggapan bahwa kalau dah stealth xbole detect langsung..sebenarnya stealth cume mengurangkan kebolehupayaan alat utk mengesannya (apa2 la kapal ke, ac ke) iaitu mengurangkan jarak radar boleh mengesannya.sebab tu kdg2 ada yg ckp SIGNATURE REDUCTION dan BUKANNYA SIGNATURE TERMINATION.keyword here ialah MENGURANGKAN.



tgk cam gamba ni, yg guna IR reducing measure pon masih ade IR signaturenya.

ringkas cakap, radar (RADAR - RADIO DETECTION AND RANGING) berfungsi dengan memancarkan pancaran gelombang mikro, dan apabila gelombang mikro ini bertembung dgn sesuatu (ataupun ada satu halangan- obstacle ketika ia propagate,ia akan memantul semula (cam sifat gelombang bunyi)..gelombang ini terpantul semula ke pemancar dan ada detector and of course processor yg bley kira kedudukan, jarak and even speed sesuatu mende tu..

so cara utk menjadi stealth dr radar basically ada 2,

1) dgn menyerap pancaran gelombang tersebut
2) dgn memesongkan pancaran tersebut

Cara (2) adalah kebiasaan dlm pembinaan kapal and aircraft US dgn menggunakan kepakaran metalurgi (ilmu berkaitan dgn sifat2 dan phase diagram logam) dgn membentuk segi2 yg memesongkan gelombang mikro (atau radar) dan xterpantul semula ke arah radar.misalnya mbtk btuk X-FORM pd hull kpl eg:




bagi sstgh kapal pulak, mana2 bhgn yg berlohong, perlu ditutup dgn BAHAN MENYERAP RADAR (radar absorbing material -RAM). bahan RAM kebiasaannya ialah bhn yg mempunyai sifat magnet seperti bhn feromagnet dan ferimagnet. sebabnya bhn bermagnet mampu menyerap gelombang radar.jadi, kebiasaannya, kapal xguna material yg spesifik utk menyerap radar utk keseluruhan hullnya, tp sstgh bhgn yg kritikal di bhgn atas hull shj.kerana pembinaan kpl kena ambik kira mcm2 etc, bhn yg xmudah berkarat, thn air masin, thn kupang2 yg suka melekat pd kapal, xade sifat magnet yg tinggi (elakkan dr magnetic-based mine), so logically xbole pakai RAM (yg bersifat magnet tinggi pd bhgn hull keseluruhannya esp bhgn bwh..malah kpl2 yg guna material biasapun kena slalu degauss utk mengurangkan magnetic element..




utk infra-red plak..




kalau utk aircraft, yes, hampir keseluruhan bdnnya diperbuat dr RAM selain guna teknik pembentukan bdn cam NIGHTHAWK,tp diorang xguna bhn RAM semata2 ,biasanya diorang memasukkan nya ke dalam satu bhn matrix lain utk menghasilkan komposit...hence, komposit penyerap radar..

[ Last edited by StealthTuah on 17-1-2005 at 01:58 PM ]
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jebon This user has been deleted
Post on 17-1-2005 02:02 PM |All posts
Perbincangan yang agak menarik kekawan.....ambo agak sibuk ari ni,tak sempat nak joint.
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Post on 17-1-2005 02:25 PM |All posts
Xpe, masuk mlm kang..

p/s 1: sape tau ape kes ngan PV1 n PV2? woii rindu woi nak tgk dlm service TLDM..

p/s 2: apsal bile cek GW dah takde?
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mmc  

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Post on 19-1-2005 01:39 PM |All posts
btw for those who have astro don't forget to tune in to discovery channel at 10 pm tonight if you are interested to know more about stealth..
"Behind this mask is a man, and behind this man is an idea. And ideas are bulletproof."

"The nation which forgets its defenders will be itself forgotten." Calvin Coolidge

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"-Edward Burke

http://securemalaysia.blogspot.com/
http://mudzaffar.blogspot.com/
http://jerung-perkasa.blogspot.com/
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Post on 26-1-2005 04:39 PM |All posts
Maleh nak bukak thread baru.lgpon naval helos ni utk formidable.plus tgk xde sape pon yg postkan mende ni..

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Friday January 21, 7:21 PM   
Singapore to buy six Sikorsky Seahawk choppers
ADVERTISEMENT


SINGAPORE, Jan 21 (Reuters) - Singapore has signed a contract to buy six new U.S.-made Sikorsky naval helicopters, the government said on Friday, the latest military upgrade in the wealthy, well-armed Southeast Asian island.
Delivery of the S-70B "Seahawk" helicopters -- each equipped with sensors to detect ships and submarines -- by United Technologies Corp. unit Sikorsky is projected between 2008 and 2010, the defence ministry said.

The statement did not disclose the value of the order.

The deal comes as Singapore is expected to soon announce a contract worth about $1 billion to buy 20 fighter jets. The defence ministry shortlisted Eurofighter, France's Dassault Aviation and Boeing Co in 2003 for that contract.

The Seahawk helicopters, which compete with NH-90 craft built by an affiliate of European Aeronautic Defence & Space Co. N.V. , are similar to Sikorsky's UH-60 Black Hawk army helicopter but designed for naval warfare.

Singapore, a city-state of 4.2 million people, invests about six percent of its gross domestic product in defence, or about $5.3 billion a year -- the largest spending in Asia when measured on a per capita basis.

Decades of peace and prosperity have done little to dispel a deeply rooted sense of military vulnerability in the ethnic Chinese-dominated island, which sits between much larger neighbours with Muslim majorities, Indonesia and Malaysia. --prasanbodotongok-phobia

When compared with the size of its $95 billion economy, Singapore spends more on defence than any Southeast Asian nation, according to data compiled by the UK-based International Institute of Strategic Studies.

"This acquisition will enhance the Republic of Singapore Navy's capability to undertake a wide spectrum of missions and carry out its mission of defending Singapore and its vital sea lines of communications more effectively," the ministry said.

A defence ministry spokeswoman declined to comment on when Singapore will announce the winner of its fighter jet programme.

Trade publication Flight International reported this month that the Singapore government was expected to delay the selection of a new fighter jet until about mid-year.

Eurofighter GmbH is a consortium of Britain's BAE Systems Plc , European Aeronautic Defence & Space Co NV of Germany and France and Finmeccanica SpA of Italy. ($1=1.638 Singapore dollars)
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nuke This user has been deleted
Post on 26-1-2005 11:25 PM |All posts
jbon,

mcm tak berbaloi bayar berbillion ringgit tapi hasilnya tidak setimpal....dah tau ke psenjataan utk NGPV selain psenjataan yg basic tu?? mungkin 2nd batch kita perlu hasilkan sendiri semuanya.....boleh save bajet....boleh letak senjata2 moden n offensive
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Post on 27-1-2005 12:34 AM |All posts
Singapore chooses Uncle Sam again
won't be surprised if they choose F-15T for the new fighter too

-aneep-
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jebon This user has been deleted
Post on 27-1-2005 08:17 AM |All posts
Dan lebih kelakar lagi, jika benar(belum confirm) NGPV/corvette batch 2 akan dibina oleh orang lain pula(bukan lagi PSC).
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mmc  

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Post on 27-1-2005 09:09 AM |All posts
Citer jebon ni memang kelakar...senangnya kerajaan nak buang duit pelaburan selama ni ya....yalah kos lesen, r&D, tot, vendor development bukannya murah...betulkah citer kau ni jebon..
"Behind this mask is a man, and behind this man is an idea. And ideas are bulletproof."

"The nation which forgets its defenders will be itself forgotten." Calvin Coolidge

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"-Edward Burke

http://securemalaysia.blogspot.com/
http://mudzaffar.blogspot.com/
http://jerung-perkasa.blogspot.com/
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jebon This user has been deleted
Post on 27-1-2005 09:16 AM |All posts
Agak kelakar,tetapi apa2 pun tidak mustahil berlaku setelah berlaku pertukaran kepada pucuk pimpinan negara.Contohnya banyak syarikat2 GLC yang sudah/sedang mengalami proses restructuring sekarang ni.Apa pun kita tunggu dan lihat dan saya tidak akan komen lagi berkenaan hal ini.
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mmc  

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Post on 27-1-2005 09:20 AM |All posts
Originally posted by jebon at 27-1-2005 09:16 AM:
Agak kelakar,tetapi apa2 pun tidak mustahil berlaku setelah berlaku pertukaran kepada pucuk pimpinan negara.Contohnya banyak syarikat2 GLC yang sudah/sedang mengalami proses restructuring sekarang  ...


tertanya-tanya ni...siapa sebenarnya empunya hak pembinaan meko tldm(design etc)...kerajaan ke psc...kalau kerajaan mungkin bolehlah kerajaan berikan tugas pembinaan kepada syt lain, tapi kalau psc tidak semudah itu:no:
"Behind this mask is a man, and behind this man is an idea. And ideas are bulletproof."

"The nation which forgets its defenders will be itself forgotten." Calvin Coolidge

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"-Edward Burke

http://securemalaysia.blogspot.com/
http://mudzaffar.blogspot.com/
http://jerung-perkasa.blogspot.com/
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jebon This user has been deleted
Post on 27-1-2005 09:54 AM |All posts
Kontrak asal antara kerajaan Malaysia dengan PSC ialah membina,menyiapkan dan menyerah(delivery) 6 biji kapal ronda generasi baru(NGPV) menggunakan platform meko A100RMN berjumlah RM5.35 billion.
Kerajaan hanya menyatakan hasrat saja untuk mendapatkan sehingga 27 biji(termasuk 6 yang telah dibina) kapal2 NGPV ini dalam tempoh 15 tahun,belum ada agreement lagi.
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mmc  

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Post on 27-1-2005 10:04 AM |All posts
tulah....design platform sbgnya tu siapa punya sebenarnya...seingat saya dulu psc dilantik jadi prime contractor dan kjaan yg memilih design...kebetulan psc mmg masuk tender dgn bv...jadi advantage utk mereka...tapi kalau design lain macam vosper dsb dipilih oleh kjaan, macamanapun psc akan bina jugak...tu yang saya sangsi yang syt lain akan dapat buat design lain selain dari meko kalau dipilh pun utk ganti psc pun..
"Behind this mask is a man, and behind this man is an idea. And ideas are bulletproof."

"The nation which forgets its defenders will be itself forgotten." Calvin Coolidge

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"-Edward Burke

http://securemalaysia.blogspot.com/
http://mudzaffar.blogspot.com/
http://jerung-perkasa.blogspot.com/
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Post on 27-1-2005 04:18 PM |All posts
emm nampak nye kene tunggu dan lihat aa
good concept, the MEKO (though Stanflex modules can be changed in a matter of hours compared to MEKO), but IMO in this case its PSC that makes it bad (too expensive!)

-aneep-
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mmc  

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Post on 27-1-2005 04:45 PM |All posts
Originally posted by aneep at 27-1-2005 04:18 PM:
emm nampak nye kene tunggu dan lihat aa
good concept, the MEKO (though Stanflex modules can be changed in a matter of hours compared to MEKO), but IMO in this case its PSC that makes it bad (too e ...


betulka stanflex in hours....saya baca 48 hours, similar to meko?
"Behind this mask is a man, and behind this man is an idea. And ideas are bulletproof."

"The nation which forgets its defenders will be itself forgotten." Calvin Coolidge

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"-Edward Burke

http://securemalaysia.blogspot.com/
http://mudzaffar.blogspot.com/
http://jerung-perkasa.blogspot.com/
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jebon This user has been deleted
Post on 27-1-2005 05:05 PM |All posts
Korang fikir PSC boleh rugi ke jika kerajaan tidak menyambung kontrak NGPV batch 2?Kalau senang2 boleh le check berapa harga sebuah frigates,corvette(well armed) yang telah ditempah oleh negara2 tertentu ataupun banding saja sebuah NGPV dengan Lekiu.Dalam kes ini saya letakkan keutamaan kepada wang kerajaan/rakyat.
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Post on 27-1-2005 05:09 PM |All posts
Originally posted by mmc at 27/1/2005 10:04:
tulah....design platform sbgnya tu siapa punya sebenarnya...seingat saya dulu psc dilantik jadi prime contractor dan kjaan yg memilih design...kebetulan psc mmg masuk tender dgn bv...jadi advantage ...


Thats a good question.

R6
'Si vis pacem para pacem'
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