Buddha's view on other religion

Sephiroth

by Vijaya

sharing and impossing are totally diffrent.
Buddhist can share the dhamma with others when others 1 2 listen.  

What is the use of sharing then?

You listen to something and then, you change nothing. The person who share the information had waste his/her time and effect educating you and you gain nothing but some knowledge on how Buddhist works. Except that, nothing change.

Worse, you may end up stating to others somewhere that you have "experienced" Buddhism (whatever that means) like another forumer named Misled_Youth did in Religion section last time.

You are not at fault. Buddhists should learn not to waste their time so much with people who not willing to change anything. :no:

Originally posted by Sephiroth at 29-1-2005 07:47 AM:
by Vijaya

sharing and impossing are totally diffrent.
Buddhist can share the dhamma with others when others 1 2 listen.  

What is the use of sharing then?

You listen to something  ...

Can u make sure that those ppl which we share the dhamma with will not change?
the Lord said come and see.if they are willing to come and see, as buddhist we should provide them a way to see.
it's their right to accept the dhamma or not.

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by Vijaya at 29-1-2005 23:06:


Can u make sure that those ppl which we share the dhamma with will not change?
the Lord said come and see.if they are willing to come and see, as buddhist we should provide them a way to see.
...

When others want it, we can share with them but we cannot force them to accept that which we wish to share. I agree with you Vijaya.

chumpon

Sephiroth

by Vijaya

Can u make sure that those ppl which we share the dhamma with will not change?

It is not for me to know whether they will change or not. If I want them change, it means I'm saying they are not living properly and that alone should upset a lot of people.

the Lord said come and see.if they are willing to come and see, as buddhist we should provide them a way to see.
it's their right to accept the dhamma or not.  

If they are willing to see, then let them see. I have nothing to show but I have a lot things to do with living.

Reminds me of a story in Mahabratha.

This Sage (forgot his name) was known for his short temper and quick to curse people. He came to a house one day, seeking alms from the occupant in that house.

The Sage stood outside the house and called out for alms. No one came at first. He called out again, still no reply. Finally, in state of anger, he was about to curse when a woman came out and addressed him politely.

The Sage asked why she was late. She told him that she was doing something for her husband and since it is the first duty of the wife to be assistance to her husband, that was the reason for her being late.

Seeing the Sage was angry for this, she continued and said, "You should learn about Jnana Yoga first. Go to see a man (forgot the name) in the town who will teach you that."

The Sage was surprise, thinking there was someone wiser than him, and left. After asking around the town (by the name was given to him), he finally found the man he was looking for. To the Sage's surprise, the man is a butcher.

The butcher asked the Sage, "Did that woman at the edge of the town asked you to come and see me?" The Sage said Yes. And then, the Butcher inform him of his Jnana (Duty) Yoga.

"I'm a Butcher who slaughter animals for food but I don't eat them myself. I perform this tasks for sake of others and there fore, in my heart, there is no sin attached to it. That is my Jnana Yoga."


The morale of this story is ... ;) Think for yourselves.

[ Last edited by Sephiroth on 2-3-2005 at 09:46 AM ]

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by Sephiroth at 2-3-2005 09:44:
by Vijaya

Can u make sure that those ppl which we share the dhamma with will not change?

It is not for me to know whether they will change or not. If I want them change, it means I'm ...

Wether killing it for others or killing it for oneself in not right.

Sephiroth

by ariyamusafir

Wether killing it for others or killing it for oneself in not right.

So says the blind man. ;)

Everyday you kill something, Ariya Chan ... only different between you and that person is, you didn't notice what you are killing.

In your body lies millions of cells, microbes and such ... and everyday, by various activities, you killing them just as Man dies by hands of Nature.

When you drink water, did you notice or not that the water too have microbes which are too light to be seen but can be killed by your stomach acid?

When you eat food, unless you are a strict vegetarian, did you know that there is some sort of meat in it?

Even if you are a strict vegetarian, did you know that the fruits and vegetable you are eating actually is food for others which killed off using chemicals and other such chemicals before you could eat them?

There is an old saying in Malay which my Sastera teacher once said - "Bila kamu sembahyangNya, meminta lanjutkan hayat mu, pernah terfikir ke semut yg mati di kaki anda?"

Roughly means - "When you pray for YOUR well being ... have you consider the creatures who died under your feet?"

Sometimes, people change instantly when certain words actually rings to them.

That wasn't intentional Seph. I think Ariya meant to say 'unnecessary intentional killing'.

But there are things that we have to.

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by Adm_Cheng_Ho at 3-3-2005 12:14:
Sometimes, people change instantly when certain words actually rings to them.

That wasn't intentional Seph. I think Ariya meant to say 'unnecessary intentional killing'.

But there are  ...

Why we are thought in Buddhism to practise eating pure vegetarian food? It is so that we avoid having kill any living beings.

Sephiroth

by Adm_Cheng_Ho

Sometimes, people change instantly when certain words actually rings to them.

You expecting miracle? From whom?

That wasn't intentional Seph. I think Ariya meant to say 'unnecessary intentional killing'.

But there are things that we have to.

There is NO such thing as "unnecessary intentional killing". Everyday, everyone kills.

You survive in this world because you kill others. You live, others die. Survival of the fittest ... simple acceptance of the food chain.

To say otherwise is not to accept the fate which you are living in. A Self-Denial that you are better than others. A egoistic approach to life, coming from teachings and religions where you, not God or Gods, which "imagines" himself to be above everyone else.

Do you know WHY there is no Buddha in this world after Gautama? Do you know WHY people who reach Buddhism choose to end their existence in this world?

Because they know that in order to exist in this world, they MUST kill another sentient being ... intentionally or unintentionally. And knowing this fact, the Buddhas do not wish to harm others, thus ending their existence and saving others from being killed and consumed by them. An ultimate self-sacrifice.

  
by ariyamusafir

Why we are thought in Buddhism to practise eating pure vegetarian food? It is so that we avoid having kill any living beings.

Wrong ... no matter how pure vegetarian you are ... you are still a killer.

People who grows the vegetable do so by using fertilizers which kill bugs, which then nurture the ground where the plant absorb the nurtions from the decay.

People who process the vegetable use chemicals to preserve and some of it kills the bugs which use the vegetable as food for itself and its youngs.

There is so many lives losts from the moment the seed for the vegetable is planted till it lands in your mouth.

And people like yourself, live in self-delusion that you are very holy because you eat vegetable while others eat meat. ;)

[ Last edited by Sephiroth on 3-3-2005 at 01:15 PM ]

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by Sephiroth at 3-3-2005 13:14:
by Adm_Cheng_Ho

Sometimes, people change instantly when certain words actually rings to them.

You expecting miracle? From whom?

That wasn't intentional Seph. I think Ariya mea ...

eating vegetables not necessarily must eat those planted using pesticide and the so. Also, those composition in the soil which was once an element of living creatures which are now dead and being absorb by plants is different from KILLING a living beings which was alive just for the meat etc. Also, yes, one can avoid total killing. ALso, it is not to end life. I guess you got the whole thing mixed up with other elements from other religion. As a start, this is on Buddhism, not other religion. the aim and final goal of all Buddhist is to avhieve nibbana. All Buddhist will seek to end their cycle of birth and death. They seek to achieve nibanna. You saying that end their life is not accurate. Why, the Buddha and all other Buddha and arahant is neither dead nor alive. In order for one to DO NOT die, they must not come into birth. When there is not birth, there will be o death, same here, no begining and thus no ending. The buddha saw that birth itself is suffering, old age is suffering, sickness is suffering, death is suffering. That is the reason, not because of what. Killing any sentient being is a no no. You see, cells in our body are different. Virus is also different. If you are a science student, YOU SHOULD know that virus is not a living thing, but instead, it is an element which after entering the body, it will have chemical reaction with other components in your body such as cells etc. These chemical reaction which is an alteration of the normal composition, will cause the body to react. Just like in our environment, when there are alien things in the environment, the environment will start to change and react differently from normal.

[ Last edited by ariyamusafir on 3-3-2005 at 01:28 PM ]

Sephiroth

by ariyamusafir

eating vegetables not necessarily must eat those planted using pesticide and the so. Also, those composition in the soil which was once an element of living creatures which are now dead and being absorb by plants is different from KILLING a living beings which was alive just for the meat etc. Also, yes, one can avoid total killing. ALso, it is not to end life. I guess you got the whole thing mixed up with other elements from other religion. As a start, this is on Buddhism, not other religion. the aim and final goal of all Buddhist is to avhieve nibbana. All Buddhist will seek to end their cycle of birth and death. They seek to achieve nibanna. You saying that end their life is not accurate. Why, the Buddha and all other Buddha and arahant is neither dead nor alive. In order for one to DO NOT die, they must not come into birth. When there is not birth, there will be o death, same here, no begining and thus no ending. The buddha saw that birth itself is suffering, old age is suffering, sickness is suffering, death is suffering. That is the reason, not because of what. Killing any sentient being is a no no. You see, cells in our body are different. Virus is also different. If you are a science student, YOU SHOULD know that virus is not a living thing, but instead, it is an element which after entering the body, it will have chemical reaction with other components in your body such as cells etc. These chemical reaction which is an alteration of the normal composition, will cause the body to react. Just like in our environment, when there are alien things in the environment, the environment will start to change and react differently from normal.

Well ... expected response from you. ;)

Thank You. Have a nice Day.

[ Last edited by Sephiroth on 3-3-2005 at 01:32 PM ]

ariyamusafir

Originally posted by Sephiroth at 3-3-2005 13:31:
by ariyamusafir

eating vegetables not necessarily must eat those planted using pesticide and the so. Also, those composition in the soil which was once an element of living creatures which a ...

You too! Have a pleasant day

Originally posted by Sephiroth at 2-3-2005 09:44 AM:
by Vijaya

Can u make sure that those ppl which we share the dhamma with will not change?

It is not for me to know whether they will change or not. If I want them change, it means I'm ...

Then, sharing is a waste of time?

juz like a master preaching dhamma in a dhamma assembly, not all the audience will accept wat the master tought. either they accept the dhamma or not, some day in the future they will take refuge in the noble triple gem. It depends on when is the seed grow.

Sephiroth

by Vijaya

Then, sharing is a waste of time?

Yes ... because what been shared is something which they can forget.

juz like a master preaching dhamma in a dhamma assembly, not all the audience will accept wat the master tought. either they accept the dhamma or not, some day in the future they will take refuge in the noble triple gem. It depends on when is the seed grow.  

What a Master preach is just knowledge, WISDOM CANNOT BE PREACHED.

All the Master is doing is try to give others his wisdom by converting it into words and speak of it in form of knowledge. The listeners will receive it as knowledge but whether the knowledge becomes wisdom and promote what the master wishes is uncertain.

Here's another story to show what I meant :

A man who specialize in repairing the wheel of carts were summoned to a Lord's (a Land owner) house one day to repair a cartwheel which broke its wheel.

The man started to work on the cartwheel as the master of the house sat on the pouch and read a book. The man turn and asked the master what he was reading. The master reply he was reading a book written by a great sage. The man asked again whether the sage he was referring to was still alive and the master said no, he had died long ago.

To this, the man said that the master was trying to learn something by reading a useless book. The master was furious; he stood up and said - "Explain yourself. If your explaination is not to my satisfaction, I will kill you."

The man, calmly turn the master's attention toward the wheel and spoke, "I have been repairing wheels like this one for almost 20 years as the knowledge is past from my father to me. I attend to past it to my children but what I can past is just knowledge. The wisdom of knowing when the wheel is in perfect balance, what to do to prevent further destruction to the cart and preventive maintenance all have to be done according to one's wisdom and that I CANNOT past to my children. They have to learn it by themselves."

"In the same way, so is what you are doing. The sage had written a book to converve the knowledge but the wisdom is lost for the sage had died. What you are trying to do is obtain the knowledge. But unless you do not convert that knowledge into wisdom by trying to experiment and live, that knowledge will be useless thus the book is useless."

Accepting the explaination, the master let the man go and sat down to ponder what he had said.


Reading sutras and books is Fine, but if you don't have what it takes to take the wisdom from what you have read, it is a useless tasks.

If you do not live according to what you read and then adjust yourself to your world, you will never gain wisdom. Nothing written is as perfect as to fit to your lifestyle. Adjustment is required and wisdom must be sorted.

Finally, reading books and Sutra doesn't make one Buddhist. :no: If I accepted such notions, I could have reborn in a monastry. ;)

What a Master preach is just knowledge, WISDOM CANNOT BE PREACHED
The Buddha said, listening to dhamma increases wisdom.

Seph, what you mean to say is hearing dhamma. Then only you're justified it is a waste of time.

Hear + heart = listen. In Chinese we call it wen. Hearing without heart is still hearing. In Chinese it is called ting.

Sephiroth

by Adm_Cheng_Ho

The Buddha said, listening to dhamma increases wisdom.

Seph, what you mean to say is hearing dhamma. Then only you're justified it is a waste of time.

Hear + heart = listen. In Chinese we call it wen. Hearing without heart is still hearing. In Chinese it is called ting.

Ting or wen ... doesn't matter.

Facts shows that people do forget knowledge faster than what they could learn. Wisdom is almost non-existence.

You have about 2 dozen Muslims here, but how many have completely understood their Al Quran?

How many Hindus have read and understood Bhavagad Gita and others such in their religion?

How many Christians memorized their Bible?

How many Buddhist read and understood half the Sutras shown in this column?


People attend to learn something to show others they have the knowledge. In long run, the knowledge will be forgotten for the learners do not put it into their hearts and make it into wisdom.

How to put something into the heart then? You tell me. :hmm:

That's because they're not doing it with empathy. They came to impose their views not to listen to what you says. Not the same.

Those people who seeks knowledge may not acquire the wisdom for a period of time. It may even take years. That's because the bodhi seed has not ripen. Time will come when they gain knowledge by leaps and bounds. Therefore, it is important to share with those who are willing to learn.

Originally posted by Adm_Cheng_Ho at 4-3-2005 10:47 AM:
Those people who seeks knowledge may not acquire the wisdom for a period of time. It may even take years. That's because the bodhi seed has not ripen. Time will come when they gain knowledge by leaps and bounds. Therefore, it is important to share with those who are willing to learn.

During my teen, I used to listen to the dharma talk but most of the time I don't understand the concept. Few years later, I finally understand part of the dharma the sangha was teaching. Why? The reason is because of my experience of life. Because of experience of life changes constantly, we tend to view things differently too. That's all.

Sephiroth

by Adm_Cheng_Ho

That's because they're not doing it with empathy. They came to impose their views not to listen to what you says. Not the same.

Hmph ... ;)

You understand means they come with empathy and you don't understand means they come without empathy?

So their intentions is based on whether you understand or not? ;)

Those people who seeks knowledge may not acquire the wisdom for a period of time. It may even take years. That's because the bodhi seed has not ripen. Time will come when they gain knowledge by leaps and bounds. Therefore, it is important to share with those who are willing to learn.  

What is the use of sharing knowledge when the receiver's seed is not ripen? :hmm:

It is like telling me to plant the seed onto the land which is not prepared for planting.