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Author: wingcross

BIBLE [Merged]

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Post time 7-7-2006 11:12 PM | Show all posts

continue....

The evidence that the very words of the Bible are God-given may be brieflt summarized as follows:



    This is the claim of the classical text (2 Timothy 3:16)

    It is the emphatic testimony of Paul that he spoke in "Words....taught by the Spirit" (1 Corinthians 2:13)

    It is evident from the repeated fomular, "it is Written"

    Jesus said that which was written in the whole Old Testament spoke of Him (Luke 24:27, 44; John 5:39, Hebrews 10:7)

    The New Testament constantly equates the WOrd of God with the Scriptures (Writings of the Old Testament- Matthew 21:42, Romans 15:4, 2 Peter 3:16)

    Jesus indicated that not even the smallest part of Hebrew word or letter could be broken (Matthew 5:18)

    The New Testament refers to the written records as the "oracles of God" (Romans 3:2; Hebrews 5:12)

    Occasionally the writers were even told to "diminish not a word" (Jeremiah 26:2). John even pronounced an anathemw on all who would add to or substract from the "words of prophecy of this book" (Revelation 22:18, 19)


sources: Answers&Reasons

More info about the bible in this link, scroll to post #28

http://forum.cari.com.my/viewthread.php?tid=221959&extra=page%3D1&page=2
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Post time 8-8-2006 08:46 AM | Show all posts

Bible

saya ada soalan ttg Bible ni... as u know that bible ada banyak jenis
RSV - 1971
RSV - 1952
American Standard Version
Revised Version - 1881
King James - 1611
Bishops
Geneva
Great
Matthews
Coverdale
Tyndale
Wycliffe
Vulgate
Ancient copies

dan banyak lagi yg saya tak tahu... so saya sbg org yg nak cari the right way to god, which bible that should me and other christianity (or become christ.) to follow , read and understand.

If u say RSV (1971), so macam mana dgn yang lain? U mesti musnahkan another old bible sbb saya akan keliru. jadi saya nak mintak lah sape2 yang faham hal ni boleh terangkan. I think TIM can answer this.
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tiM This user has been deleted
Post time 8-8-2006 09:23 PM | Show all posts
Sorry, I cant answer ur question. Biar yg lain menjawap, mereka yg arif dlm sejarah dan kronology bibble. Saya tahu ada banyak jawapan dlm web jugak, tapi kalau tiada yg membantu nanti baru saya cari utk awak jawapannya dlm website.

Saya cuma nak menjawab soal kekeliruan persepsi anda tentang kewujudan yg baru, maka yg lama harus dimusnahkan... Itu satu sikap dan persepsi yg tidak betul. Kalau anda nak tahu terdapat beberapa pusat sumber kristian di seluruh dinia yg masih menyimpan tulisan asal injil-injil dan kitab-kitab Perjanjian Lama. Anda boleh bayangkan bagaimana bentuk-bentuk ayat-ayat dan istilah2 (terms) lama? Sedangkan Bible yg telah dipermudahkan maksud ayatnya melalui kaedah yg sangat rapi dan analisis yg memakan masa utk menghasilkannya punnn masih terlalu puitis utk diterjemahkan mesejnya... Bayangkan kalau semua kristian diberi (dari cetakan) yg asal... Alangkah kelirunya org kristian selepas 2000 thn Jesus pergi dari dunia ini. Mungkin setiap org ada gereja sendiri dengan Bible yg sama. Lainlah Kalau Bible ini berbentuk kamus, dokumen tender, encyclopedia, atau surat pajak gadai....

[ Last edited by  tiM at 9-8-2006 04:35 PM ]
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Post time 9-8-2006 02:27 AM | Show all posts
Well eiyoei if you are honestly wish to read the bible, very simple just pick one up.

They are basically the same.

Just that some of them use modern day language to express the text in the bible, while the catholics use the old first version.

There are some bibles used by the Jehovah withnesses and the Mormons which have been altered to their version of christianity.

Your list of bibles are basically american versions.

You can start with the King James which use modern day language or if more detailed the Jerusalem bible - both can be found in any christian bookstores in Malaysia.
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Post time 9-8-2006 04:41 PM | Show all posts

If you want a bible that is easy to understand why not try the New International Version?
Then after that you can try the King James Version which is a literal translation from the hebrew bible.

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Post time 9-8-2006 06:15 PM | Show all posts
Actually i ada question about Jehoiachin age. How old is he?

In;
2 CHRONICLES 36
9. Jehoiachin was eight years old when he began to reign, and he reigned three months and ten days in Jerusalem: and he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD.  
Clik here for If u need proof..

but
II KINGS 24
8. Jehoiachin was eighteen years old when he began to reign, and he reigned in Jerusalem three months. And his mothers name was Nehushta, the daughter of Elnathan of Jerusalem.
Click here

so which one is true? 8 or 18

so that's why tanya.. which bible that i should read and NO stu*id error..

and 1 more error

In;
2 SAMUEL 10
18. And the Syrians fled before Israel; and David slew the men of seven hundred chariots of the Syrians, and forty thousand horsemen, and smote Shobach the captain of their host, who died there.
Proof! CLick here..

but;
1 CHRONICLES 19
18. But the Syrians fled before Israel: and David slew of the Syrians seven thousand men which fought in chariots, and forty thousand footmen, and killed Shophach the captain of the host.
Click Here!!!

and terus terang i cakap i can prove more error on bible that u read everyday...

if u said that i should read New International Version... so maybe the same error...

so which bible that should i read ? Somebody from church can answer me... please...
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tiM This user has been deleted
Post time 9-8-2006 06:47 PM | Show all posts
Berapa tahun dah u baca Bible? mungkin perlu baca ke dua kali dari awal sampai ke akhir.
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muslimbest This user has been deleted
Post time 9-8-2006 07:39 PM | Show all posts
tim, u plak da baca brape kali? u da hafal ke setiap versi bible?
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tiM This user has been deleted
Post time 9-8-2006 07:47 PM | Show all posts
Originally posted by muslimbest at 9-8-2006 06:39 PM
tim, u plak da baca brape kali? u da hafal ke setiap versi bible?

Saya baca tak habis sekali (satu round) selama lebih 20thn... tak pernah saya jumpa percanggahan fakta yg membuat saya kena memilih satu. Saya tak nafikan ada perbezaan tapi itu bukan soal motif ajaran yg perlu saya resapi darinya. Mungkin dia tak faham. atau tidak memaca ayat2 terdahulu dan yg kemudiannya dengan baik2. Kalau sekadar kerat cerita dan merujuk pada cerita dari keratan yg lain sedia maklum ia boleh jadi membawa makna yg berbeza. Oleh itu seog kristian perlulah berdoa terlebih dahulu sebelum membaca bible. Seperti mana yg pernah saya katakan, Bible bukan dokumen tender, bukan kamus dan bukan juga buku manual peralatan elektrik....
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muslimbest This user has been deleted
Post time 9-8-2006 07:57 PM | Show all posts
Saya tak nafikan ada perbezaan  


tim, ape perbezaan yg awak pernah jumpe dlm versi2 bible yg awak baca? bole bg contoh sket?
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tiM This user has been deleted
Post time 9-8-2006 08:09 PM | Show all posts
Contohnya Dlm Bible Berbahasa Inggeris Dia guna God father, Bahaya Melayu / indon dia Jadi Allah Bapa... Pernah jd kontroversi pada permulaan Pak LAh memegang jawatan dulu kerana Dlm Kitab (Bible) bahasa Iban (Srwk) menggunakan term Allataallah.... Dlm Bahasa Indon itu sendiri juga ada perubahan, dahulu Yesus dan sekarang Jesus. Org kristiannya pun macam tu dah berubah. Dulu nama mereka macam2 yg agak pelek dan premitf sekarang nama semua nama2 yg terkemuka di seluruh dunia....
Macam juga nama saya... dulu ada yg mengatakan ia ringkasan, Timah, Timun, Timba, Timbun... Sekarang ia boleh jadi macam 2 Tim yg ternama di persada dunia.

[ Last edited by  tiM at 9-8-2006 07:11 PM ]
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muslimbest This user has been deleted
Post time 9-8-2006 08:32 PM | Show all posts
Originally posted by tiM at 9-8-2006 08:09 PM
Contohnya Dlm Bible Berbahasa Inggeris Dia guna God father, Bahaya Melayu / indon dia Jadi Allah Bapa... Pernah jd kontroversi pada permulaan Pak LAh memegang jawatan dulu kerana Dlm Kitab (Bible)  ...



itu sume perbezaan dari segi istilah, ade tak contoh perbezaan dari segi fakta, hukum, sejarah, dan jalan cerita antara bible2 itu sendiri?
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Post time 10-8-2006 08:35 AM | Show all posts
saya boleh terima perbezaan istilah, mungkin sebab saya tak faham... tapi kalau FAKTA boleh silap... i cant accept it... how bible boleh silap... this is bible not phone book or magazine..

2 CHRONICLES
CHAPTER 9
25. And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen; whom he bestowed in the chariot cities, and with the king at Jerusalem.

but
I KINGS
CHAPTER 4
26 And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen.

u read KING and CHRONICLES and u can find this chapter... this is FACT...

u should read this article "50,000 Errors in the Bible" <-- click here

and u can understand it.

Satu lagi soalan, adakah sapa2 out there yang betul2 hafal Bible, each chapter, each verse and understand... and he still FATHER... call me...
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tiM This user has been deleted
Post time 10-8-2006 07:43 PM | Show all posts
Yes u are rite... this is Bible.. not phone book or magezine. Banyak yg berbentuk perumpamaan, khiasan dan bahasa yg di luar kemampuan manusia biasa utk memahami kebesaran Tuhan.

Ah!!!! nampakpun belang dan sumberrr yg mempengaruhi persepsi anda terhadap pembacaan Bible. Anda bukan membaca tapi sekadar meyakinkan diri anda terhadap tumuhan, atau usaha utk menidakkan Bible. Hakikatnya anda melihat dari ceruk mata iblis bukan dengan rahmat dan berkat Tuhan utk memahami Bible. Anda fikir baik2, Apa seterusnya yg baik anda mapu lakukan.

[ Last edited by  tiM at 10-8-2006 06:45 PM ]
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muslimbest This user has been deleted
Post time 10-8-2006 08:35 PM | Show all posts
Originally posted by tiM at 10-8-2006 07:43 PM
Yes u are rite... this is Bible.. not phone book or magezine. Banyak yg berbentuk perumpamaan, khiasan dan bahasa yg di luar kemampuan manusia biasa utk memahami kebesaran Tuhan.

Ah!!!! nampakpu ...



klu camtu, ape yg awak nampak dari satu perbezaan kecil di atas? ayat mane yg awak pilih dan awak beriman dgn nye? bible mane plak yg awak pilih dan beriman dgn nye?
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tiM This user has been deleted
Post time 10-8-2006 09:16 PM | Show all posts
OK..
Saya tak beriman pada ayat itu kerana ia cuma cerita penyambung pada mesej sebenar. watak di situ adalah Solomon dengan ramai penunggan kuda dan hendak kemana, buat apa, kenapa?... Secara ikhlas saya katakan, sayapun tak faham ayat itu. Oleh itu kalau saya nak baca Bible saya akan doa t'lebihdahulu dan baca satu cerita yg lengkap dari awal hingga ke akhir. Kalau main petik keratan2 ayat, boleh jadi awak melihat Bible mengatakan Tuhan itu ialah iblis..
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Post time 11-8-2006 09:04 AM | Show all posts
kami sebagai org islam tidak menyatakan Tuhan itu adalah iblis... sbb Isa adalah nabi dan orang biasa seperti kita semua.. dia pun makan mcm kita jugak...

back to the subjet...
Spt kata Tim sebelum ni, terdapat beberapa pusat sumber kristian di seluruh dunia yg masih menyimpan tulisan asal injil-injil dan kitab-kitab Perjanjian Lama jadi why not bahan yang totally original tu.. ditranslate dan disebarkan ke seluruh dunia... just 1 copy sahaja.. tak payah ada verse2 lain... so sape2 boleh refer to only 1 bible tak payah nak old testament, new testament.. another New.. and New... like al-quran, we only read al-quran sahaja.. takde New Al-quran atau New International Al-quran Latest Version... takde... just 1 language Arabic.. jadi yang ada sedikit confuse tu cuma translation sahaja (sbb deference  language).. tapi still refer to same sentence in arabic...

but bible.. which bible that u refer before? adakah u read New Amarican Standard Bible pastu make new bible call New International Version.. so tak mustahil next 5 years ada another new bible call New Revised International Version ... sbb refer dari New International Version... so rasa mcm diperbodohkan lah sbb u still need to read a new bible sedangkan bible ni diturunkan ratusan tahun dahulu tapi still ada new bible.. so thats why saya bg tau tadi why not your pope keluarkan that original bible and distribute to all...

benda ni penting sbb if u dah keluarkan the original bible.. sudah semestinye semua orang termasuk Islam akan baca utk kaji,i betul ke ini Bible zaman Isa... Kami tak baca Bible version2 ni.. sbb ayat berubah2... FACT pun boleh berubah... seven hundred chariots boleh jadi seven thousand chariots mane datangnye that extra 0 ! Ini menunjukkan u tak refer mana2 bible tu make a new version.. main suka2 tulis je...

[ Last edited by  eiyoei at 11-8-2006 09:16 AM ]
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Post time 11-8-2006 09:20 AM | Show all posts
Tuan-tuan dan Puan-Puan,

dah kali keberapa persoalan ini dibangkitkan dan telah dijawab. Tetapi bila dah sejuk, timbul balik. so kepada pihak yang berkenaan, kalau tuan-tuan dan puan-puan ingin mengetahui jawapan terhadap persoalan itu, rajin-rajinkanlah diri selak posting-posting yang lepas.

Berkenaan banyak terjemahan Bible dalam Bible : Ia merupakan terjemahan. Tetapi semua terjemahan tersebut bersumber Bible yang satu dalam bahasa yang asli. Perjanjian Lama dari Bahasa Hebrew, dan Perjanjian Baru dari Bahasa Greek.

Quran juga banyak versi terjemahan dalam bahasa english. Kenapa tuan-tuan dan puan-puan yang muslim tidak buat komplen?

Berkenaan kunun adanya percanggahan, banyak dah perbincangan dan jawapan yang telah diberikan. So, carilah sendiri dalam forum ini.

Sekian
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muslimbest This user has been deleted
Post time 11-8-2006 10:56 AM | Show all posts
kami boleh terima perbezaan terjemahan oleh kerana istilah atau bahasa. tp al-quran tetap satu, tak de byk2 jenis.
tp berbeza dgn bible, perbezaan antara bible bukan sekadar istilah, tetapi melibatkan benda2 yg nyata seperti angka, hukum, dan jalan cerita.
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Post time 11-8-2006 11:16 AM | Show all posts
Untuk makluman sr. Muslimbest,

Bible merupakan koleksi Kitab-Kitab. Ia bukan seperti Quran, hanya satu kitab.

Sr. mempertikaikan  angka-angka, jalan cerita, saya rasa, soalan-soalan benda macam ni dah beberapa kali ditimbulkan, dan jawapan telah diberi.

Sr. tidak berlaku adil kerana terus menjatuhkan hukuman tanpa meminta penjelasan. Penjelasan pun telah diberi, carilah sendiri dalam forum ini.

Saya hairan, setiap kali orang baru timbul, soalan sama sahaja ditanya...dan terus menjatuhkan hukuman tanpa usul periksa. Tak taulah kalau ini yang dinamakan  keadilan yang dituntut oleh Islam.

Berkenaan dengan hukum pula, memang ada yang berbeza. Sr. bertanya kenapa, tetapi, itu hak Tuhan.Bukankah dalam Islam sendiri mengakui setiap agama mempunyai kiblat masing-masing? Kenapa tuhan anda hanya tidak buat kiblat yang  standart sahaja? Tanyalah tuhan anda sendiri sebelum sr. mempertikaikan agama orang lain.

Salam
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