Bhavagad Gita ...

Sephiroth

This is an attempt to bring forth (and explain) Bhavagad Gita since it is one of the most important text in Hindusm. Read if you wish and ask if you don't understand something.

Bhavagad Gita roughly translated as God's knowledge (for Man).

This is brought forward during the final great War in Mahabratha - at the field of Kurushektra (a few miles from the present day Delhi) about 5,000 years ago.

The war ensured when Pandawas (sons of Pandu) asked for their share of kingdom from their cousins, Kauravas (Sons of Kuru). Kauravas disagree to their demands and after all peace talk, it is finally decided that war was the only solution one could come out with.

Sephiroth

One of the great men of that time, Sanjaya was inherited with ability to see what is happening in another place just by closing his eyes and focusing his thought to that place. In modern time, I guess that could be like Astral Projecting himself to the battlefield while the body remains at the same place he left it.

From his place in the palace, he brought news of the battle to the blind King, Pandu who wished to know the situation there.

Arjuna, standing in his chariot saw his own kinsmen, friends and people he cared for standing on the opposite side and he was to fight them. The thought of killing them made his feet weak.

At that time, krishna spoke  "How does it happen that this delusion,  Arjuna, which is discarded by the good, which excludes from heaven, and occasions infamy, has overtaken you in this place of grave danger? Do not be weak, Arjuna, it is not worthy of you. Cast off this base weakness of heart, and arise, O terror of your foes! "

Arjuna in return replied, "How, O destroyer of Madhu, shall I in battle encounter with arrows Bhishma and Drona梑oth, O destroyer of enemies, entitled to reverence? It is better to live even on alms in this world than to kill my teachers, men of great glory. But killing them, though they are avaricious of worldly goods, I should only enjoy blood-tainted enjoyments. Nor do we know which of the two is better for us梬hether that we should vanquish them, or that they should vanquish us.

[Note : Madhu in Tamil means something which is intoxicating ... lust, alcholol, love etc]

   Even those, whom having killed, we do not wish to live梕ven those sons of Dhritarashtra stand arrayed against us. With a heart contaminated by the taint of helplessness, with a mind confounded about my duty, 2 I ask you. Tell me what is good for me. I am your disciple; instruct me, who have thrown myself on your mercy. For I do not perceive how to dispel that grief which will dry up my spirit after I have obtained a prosperous kingdom on earth without a foe, or even the sovereignty of the gods. "

Having say that, Arjuna said he will not fight and put his bows aside.

[ Last edited by Sephiroth on 19-6-2004 at 09:42 AM ]

Sephiroth

Continued from above ...

Listening to Arjuna's statement, Krishna reply the following :

You have grieved for those who deserve no grief, and you talk words of wisdom. Learned men grieve not for the living nor the dead. Never did I not exist, nor you, nor these rulers of men; nor will any one of us ever hereafter cease to be. As in this body, infancy and youth and old age come to the embodied self, so does the acquisition of another body; a sensible man is not deceived about that. The contacts of the senses, Arjuna, which produce cold and heat, pleasure and pain, are not permanent, they are ever coming and going. Bear them, O descendant of Bharata! For, chief of men, that sensible man who is not afflicted by pain or heat, he merits immortality.  

Meaning : You see the world through your sensors. You see colors because of your eyes send the signals to your head in the way it perceives. You heard the sound because of your ears, you taste something because of your tongue and so on.

Your world is a product of definations by your sensors. Is such world actually exists?


   There is no existence for that which is unreal; there is no non-existence for that which is real. And the correct conclusion about both is perceived by those who perceive the truth. Know that to be indestructible which pervades all this; the destruction of that inexhaustible principle none can bring about. These bodies that pertain to the embodied self which is eternal, indestructible, and indefinable, are said to be perishable; therefore do engage in battle, O descendant of Bharata! He who thinks it to be the killer and he who thinks it to be killed, both know nothing. The self kills not, and the self is not killed. It is not born, nor does it ever die, nor, having existed, does it exist no more. Unborn, everlasting, unchangeable, and primeval, the self is not killed when the body is killed.  

Description of the Soul or the Self.

  O son of Pritha, how can that man who knows the self to be indestructible, everlasting, unborn, and inexhaustible, how and whom can he kill, whom can he cause to be killed? As a man, casting off old clothes, puts on others and new ones, so the embodied self, casting off old bodies, goes to others and new ones. Weapons do not divide the self into pieces; fire does not burn it; waters do not moisten it; the wind does not dry it up. It is not divisible; it is not combustible; it is not to be moistened; it is not to be dried up. It is everlasting, all-pervading, stable, firm, and eternal. It is said to be unperceived, to be unthinkable, to be unchangeable. Therefore, knowing it to be such, you ought not to grieve.

   But even if you think that the self is constantly born, and constantly dies, still, Arjuna, you ought not to grieve like this. For to one that is born, death is certain; and to one that dies, birth is certain. Therefore, you should not grieve about things that are unavoidable.

   The source of things, Arjuna, is unperceived; their middle state is perceived; and their end again is unperceived. Why lament over them? One looks upon it as a wonder; another similarly speaks of it as a wonder; another, too, hears of it as a wonder; and even after having heard of it, no one does really know it .

One looks at the Soul as wonder (of God), others hears about it and accept it as wonder but no one can really prove anything.

   This embodied self, Arjuna, within every one's body is always indestructible. Therefore you ought not to grieve for any being.

   Having regard to your own duty also, you ought not to falter, for there is nothing better for a Kshatriya than a righteous battle. Happy those Kshatriyas, O son of Pritha, who can find such a battle to fight梐n open door to heaven! But if you will not fight this righteous battle, then you will have abandoned your own duty and your fame, and you will incur sin. All beings, too, will tell of your everlasting infamy; and to one who has been honored, infamy is a greater evil than death. Warriors who are masters of great chariots will think that you abstained from the battle through fear, and having been highly thought of by them, you will fall down to littleness. Your enemies, too, decrying your power, will speak much about you that should not be spoken. And what, indeed, is more lamentable than that?  Killed, you will obtain heaven; victorious, you will enjoy the earth. Therefore arise, O son of Kunti, resolved to engage in battle. Looking alike on pleasure and pain, on gain and loss, on victory and defeat, then prepare for battle, and thus you will not incur sin.  

The duty of a warrior - fight a Righteous battle. In this modern time, make sure you are righteous first before you could consider whether others are righteous or not.

Sephiroth

Continue from above ...

The knowledge here declared to you is that relating to the Sankhya. Now hear that relating to the Yoga. Possessed of this knowledge, O son of Pritha, you will cast off the bonds of action.

[Sankya - Speculative Indian spiritual discipline. Relate to the interaction between the Self and the Nature - Cause and Effect.]

   In this path to final emancipation, nothing that is commenced becomes wasted effort; no obstacles exist; and even a little of this form of sacred duty protects one from great danger.


   There is here, Arjuna, but one state of mind consisting in firm understanding. But the states of mind of those who have no firm understanding are many-branched and endless. The state of mind consisting in firm understanding regarding steady contemplation does not belong to those, Arjuna, who are strongly attached to worldly pleasures and power, and whose minds are drawn away by that flowery talk which is full of specific acts for the attainment of pleasures and power, and which promises birth as the fruit of acts梩hat flowery talk which those unwise ones utter, who are enamored of Vedic words, who say there is nothing else, who are full of desires, and whose goal is heaven.  

[who achieve Nirwana/Moksha? One who has one state of mind with firm understanding.

NOT those with not firm understanding and mind that wonders, OR those who attached to worldly pleasures and pain, OR those who concentrate in talking but never put it in action, OR those who's goal of spiritualism is to obtain Heaven and escape from Hell ... Christians and Muslims take note of this difference in our religions.]

   The Vedas merely relate to the effects of the three qualities; do you, Arjuna, rise above those effects of the three qualities, and be free from the pairs of opposites and always preserve courage; be free from anxiety for new acquisitions or protection of old acquisitions, and be self-controlled.

  To the instructed Brahmana, there is in all the Vedas as much utility as in a reservoir of water into which waters flow from all sides.

[In Hindu language, Vedas/Vedam also means religions. Religion only teach you about the qualities as stated above. Whether a person can rise above or not and reach God is in his own hands. ]

  Your business is with action alone; not by any means with the fruit of action. Let not the fruit of action be your motive to action. Let not your attachment be fixed on inaction.

    Having recourse to devotion,  Arjuna, perform actions, casting off all attachment, and being equally calm in success or failure; such equability is called devotion.

   Action, Arjuna, is far inferior to the devotion of the mind. In that devotion seek shelter. Wretched are those whose motive to action is the fruit of action. He who has obtained devotion in this world casts off both merit and sin. Therefore apply yourself to devotion; devotion in all actions is wisdom. The wise who have obtained devotion cast off the fruit of action; and released from the shackles of repeated births, repair to that seat where there is no unhappiness.

[A person who seeks to be devoted person must first cast off the attempt to seek merits and escape sin by his actions. Anyone who do work for sake of merit will not reach God. They will reach heaven where there is pleasure only to return right back down to Earth and suffer once again.

   When your mind shall have crossed beyond the taint of delusion, then will you become indifferent to all that you have heard or will hear . When your mind, confounded by what you have heard, will stand firm and steady in contemplation, then you will acquire devotion.  

[ Last edited by Sephiroth on 19-6-2004 at 11:09 AM ]

fleurzsa

Just skimmed n scanned..... will read again later..

Have to go out now...

Sephiroth

[Continued ...]

Arjuna asked "What are the characteristics, Krishna, of one whose mind is steady, and who is intent on contemplation ? How should one of steady mind speak, or sit, or move?

Krishna answered, "When a man, Arjuna, abandons all the desires of his heart, and is pleased in his self only and by his self, he is then called one of steady mind. He whose heart is not agitated in the midst of calamities, who has no longing for pleasures, and from whom the feelings of affection, fear, and wrath have departed, is called a sage of steady mind. His mind is steady, who, being without attachments anywhere, feels no exultation and no aversion on encountering the various agreeable and disagreeable things of this world. A man's mind is steady, when he withdraws his senses from all objects of sense, as the tortoise withdraws its limbs from all sides. Objects of sense draw back from a person who is abstinent; not so the taste for those objects. But even the taste departs from him, when he has seen the Supreme.

[Translation : He who is steady in mind is one who is not agitated by calamities, longs for pleasure, affection, fear or wrath.  
Note : Roman Philosopher Epictetus have the similar understanding, only thing is, he came a few thousand years after Gita.]

The boisterous senses, Arjuna, carry away by force the mind even of a wise man who exerts himself for final emancipation. Restraining them all, a man should remain engaged in devotion, making me his only resort. For his mind is steady whose senses are under his control.  

[He who attracted by his sensors - like object of beauty, wealth etc will allow his Mind to wonder and forget God.]

  The man who ponders over objects of sense forms an attachment to them; from that attachment is produced desire; and from desire anger is produced; from anger results want of discrimination; from want of discrimination, confusion of the memory; from confusion of the memory, loss of reason; and in consequence of the loss of reason he is utterly ruined.

[When a person attracted by attachment (to things  his sensors provided), he will have emotional attachments to it. When one do not get those which he is attached to, he will result to anger which leads to all sort of things.

   But the self-restrained man who moves among objects with senses under the control of his own self, and free from affection and aversion, obtains tranquillity. When there is tranquillity, all his miseries are destroyed, for the mind of him whose heart is tranquil soon becomes steady.  

[A person who is self-restrained will keep his sensors under control and thus avoid having attachments. Since he has no attachments, his mind will become steady]

He who is not self-restrained has no steadiness of mind; nor does the unrestrained man have perseverance in the pursuit of self-knowledge; there is no tranquillity for him who does not persevere in the pursuit of self-knowledge; and how can there be happiness for one who is not tranquil? For the heart which follows the rambling senses leads away his judgement, as the wind leads a boat astray upon the waters.  

   Therefore, Arjuna, his mind is steady whose senses are restrained on all sides from objects of sense. The self-restrained man is awake, when it is night for all beings; and when all beings are awake, that is the night of the right-seeing sage .

   He into whom all objects of desire enter, as waters enter the ocean, which, though replenished, still keeps its position unrnoved梙e only obtains tranquillity; not he who desires those objects of desire.

   The man who, casting off all desires, lives free from attachments, who is free from egoism, and free from possessions, obtains tranquillity. This, O son of Pritha, is the Brahmic state; attaining to this, one is never deluded; and remaining in it to the end of your life, one attains brahma-nirvana, the Brahmic bliss.

[A person who casted off his desires, free from attachments, ego and possessions will obtain tranquility. ]

Translated by Kashinath Trimbak Telano, 1882
Edited and annotated by Richard Hooker

[ Last edited by Sephiroth on 21-6-2004 at 01:32 PM ]

Sephiroth

Yoga simply means Exercise and can also be said as "Way to do" or "Method of Working". Same way Japanese say that a method of doing/working is "Kata". so roughly translated, Karma Yoga means "The Way of Karma".

In Bhavagad Gita, it is separated into four sections. The introduction section is the one you have read before. The one you will read now is called Karma Yoga or how Karma works. The 3rd section is Jnana Yoga covers about God, His place, then about Man and his place and finally Man's place in the Universe around him.

The final part of Bhavagad Gita is Bhakti Yoga, or how Man should approach God.


Karma Yoga

Arjuna gets confused with all this and asked, "If devotion is judged by you to be superior to action, then why, Krishna, do you urge me to do this fearful action? You seem, indeed, to confuse my mind by equivocal words. Therefore, declare only one thing with certainty, by which I may attain the highest good.  

For this, Krishna replied, " O sinless one! I have already stated that in this world there is a twofold path: that of the Sankhyas by devotion in the shape of true knowledge; and that of the Yogins by devotion in the shape of action. A man does not attain freedom from action merely by not engaging in action; nor does he attain perfection by merely renouncing action. For nobody ever remains even for an instant without performing some action; since the qualities of nature constrain everybody, no-one has free-will in the question of performing or not performing action.

[Which means in this world there is two type of Man. One is Sankyas who seeks perfection by obtaining knowledge (those who follow the early Hindu doctrines) and Yogis who seeks perfection by performing actions (Yes, including some good Muslims should they follow their religions roperly  ... ;) ).

The deluded man who, restraining the organs of action, continues to think in his mind about objects of sense, is called a hypocrite. But he, Arjuna, who restraining his senses with his mind, and being free from attachments, engages in devotion in the shape of action, with the organs of action, is far superior.

You should perform action which is required, for action is better than inaction, and the physical support of your body, too, cannot be accomplished with inaction. This world is fettered by all action other than action for the purpose of the sacrifice.

[In this world, it is almost impossible for you do be inactive all the time. And since it is almost impossible to do so, then being active is better.]

Therefore, Arjuna, do you, casting off attachment, perform action for that purpose. The Creator, having in ancient times created men together with the sacrifice, said:

"ropagate with this (ie, sacrifice). May it be the giver to you of the things you desire. Please the gods with this, and may those gods please you. Pleasing each other, you will attain the highest good. For pleased with the sacrifices, the gods will give you the enjoyments you desire.
And he who enjoys himself without giving them what they have given, is, indeed, a thie

Sephiroth

[Continue from above ...]

But the man who is attached to his self only, who is contented in his self, and is pleased with his self, has nothing to do. He has no interest at all in what is done, and none whatever in what is not done, in this world; nor is any interest of his dependent on any being.

Therefore, always peform action, which must be performed, without attachment. For a man, peforming action without attachment attains the Supreme. By action alone did Janaka and other ancient kings work for perfection .  

[Do something useful but do it without attachment to the action done. Do it for sake of others and God. ]

And in regard also to the keeping of people to their duties. you should perform action. Whatever a great man does, other men do that also. And people follow whatever he receives as authority. There is nothing, Arjuna, for me to do in all the three worlds, nothing to acquire which has not been acquired. Still I do engage in action. For should I at any time not engage without sloth in action, men would follow in my path from all sides, Arjuna. If I did not perform actions, these worlds would be destroyed, I should be the cause of caste interminglings, and I would ruin all the peoples.  

[Krishna state that even He has nothing to gain from all this activities in this world, He still does it because if He doesn't, others will follow His examples and then, no one will do anything and expect God to handle everything. ]

As the ignorant act, O descendant of Bharata, with attachment to action, so should a wise man act without attachment, wishing to keep the people to their duties. A wise man should not shake the convictions of the ignorant who are attached to action, but acting with devotion himself should make them apply themselves to all action.

[A wise person who has no attachment shouldn't try to force the same thing onto others, in return, act in devotion and let those who have attachment follow his examples in doing it.]

He whose mind is deluded by individuality thinks himself the doer of the actions, which, in every way, are done by the qualities of nature. But he, Arjuna, who knows the truth about the difference from qualities and the difference from actions, forms no attachments, believing that qualities deal with objects of the senses.  

[Actions are the results of nature working through the three qualities (triguna) : Lucidity, passion and dark inertia. The individual soul or the Self is only the observer of the action.

Which means the Soul/Self are not effected by the action of the Mind. The mind does things because of various effects, cause by the sensors and passion to do something. ]

But those who are deluded by the qualities of nature form attachments to the actions of the qualities. A man of perfect knowledge should not shake these men of imperfect knowledge in their convictions. Dedicating all actions to me with a mind knowing the relation of the supreme and individual self, engage in battle without desire, without any feeling of possessions, and without any mental anguish.  

[A person who thinks he is doer of an action will be attached to the desire and fruits of an action. Example is lottery. You buy a ticket and start imagining what you will be doing with the money should you win. Same here, you do something and when something happens, you start to think what you will do with the fruit of your action.

A person who has knowledge will not tell this people otherwise. He will perform his task without thinking about the fruits he will be getting, fight without desires to achieve something or getting something in return or with mental anguish].

Even those men who always act on this opinion of mine, full of faith, and without complaining, are released from all actions. But those who complain about my opinion and do not act upon it, know that they lack all judgement, deluded about reality and distant from all knowlede; these men are in essence ruined.  

[Those who act with faith and without complaining will be release from their actions, but those who complains but do not act, have lack of proper judgement on what is right and wrong, deluded in reality and distance themselves from all knowledge are essence/cause for further ruins]

Even a man of knowledge acts according to his own nature. All beings follow nature. What will restraint effect? Every sense has its affections and aversions towards its objects fixed. One should not become subject to them, for they are one's opponents.

[This is important. Follow one's nature and don't go against it. Man is creatures of nature and following the nature's way and his own nature is important].

One's own duty, though defective, is better than another's duty well performed. Death in performing one's own duty is preferable; the performance of the duty of others is dangerous

[Do your duties properly. By doing someone else's duty, you are mixing things up. A fighter should fight, he shouldn't try to become a Brahmin for a warrior do not have the proper patience to do so. That is one example.

Dying while performing a duty is a good thing, dying while doing someone else's duty is not a good thing. Why? Person with certain skills die in a battlefield will take his own skills with him, thus those knowledge will disappear. Same with medicine and other form of knowledge. ]

adam_sofea

lg

Sephiroth

[Continue from above ... ]

Arjuna asked, " But by whom is man impelled, even though unwilling, and, as it were, constrained by force, to commit sin?  

[Meaning ... who/what makes a man who is not willing commit sin to go and commit sin? What force drives a man to commit it even so unwillingly?]

Krishna answered , "It is desire, it is wrath, born from the quality of passion; it is very ravenous, very sinful. Know that that is the foe in this world. As fire is enveloped by smoke, a mirror by dust, the fetus by the womb, so is knowledge enveloped by desire.

[And the Answer - Desire, Anger, Passion]

Knowledge, Arjuna, is enveloped by this constant foe of the man of knowledge, in the shape of desire, which is like a fire and insatiable. The senses, the mind, and the understanding are said to be its seat; with these it deludes the embodied self after enveloping knowledge.

[Meaning, the above negative qualities makes a person hard to gain knowledge - about the world, himself and God.]

Therefore, Arjuna, first restrain your senses, then cast off this sinful thing which destroys knowledge and experience. It has been said that the senses are great, that the mind is greater than the senses, that the understanding is greater than the mind. The self is greater than understanding. Thus knowing that which is higher than the understanding, and restraining yourself by your self, Arjuna, destroy this unmanageable enemy in the shape of desire.   

[Meaning - simple enough, cast aside your Desire, control your Anger and control your Passion. Then you will gain understanding your own self and by understanding the Self, you will gain a greater understanding about things around you, thus defeating the enemy which binds you to this world. ]

Truth.8

mind if i ask u?


kitab gita ini banyak memberi nasihat, poem  dan kiamat. ada tak ia memberi tentang kebersihan makanan? macam certain things  can be eaten and certain cannot be eaten?

Sephiroth

by Truth.8

kitab gita ini banyak memberi nasihat, poem  dan kiamat. ada tak ia memberi tentang kebersihan makanan? macam certain things  can be eaten and certain cannot be eaten?

Yes and No. If you ask things like haram or halal stuff, No.

There are advices on what a person should take as food and what does not (in general form like spice, meat etc). Particularly, meat (of all kind) are still allowed but it also stated that there is a reason why one should reduce the intake of meat.

Sephiroth

OK ... summary of Karma Yoga.

Easiest way to understand Karma Yoga is by imagining that you are a string held puppet. You are the doll, the Puppet master is the World and the string which attach you to the Puppet Master is the attachment you have to this world.

There is three reasons for you do perform ANY actions :-

1. Passion for something.
2. Desire to obtain something.
3. Anger when you do not obtain something.

The wheels of Karma revolves around this three desires.

A person who has no knowledge of Karma Yoga (above mentioned truth) will think that he is the one doing the action. A person who knows the above mentioned truth will know why he does something like he does and cease to perform something which will generate more bad karmas.

The action of "distance" himself from this attachment is the one Krishna instructed to Arjuna in Karma Yoga by asking Arjuna to do this action (act of war) for His sake, thus cutting himself from the fruits of the actions (which will generate more karma to a person who do not know the truth).

Every action perform for sake of God and not for sake of own gain WILL not gain Good OR Bad Karma for the person who is performing it.

Truth.8

Originally posted by Sephiroth at 29-6-2004 10:45 AM:
Yes and No. If you ask things like haram or halal stuff, No.

There are advices on what a person should take as food and what does not (in general form like spice, meat etc). Particularly, meat (of all kind) are still allowed but it also stated that there is a reason why one should reduce the intake of meat.

...

But in Bible, God gave list of meat should be eaten and not. Not only Bible gives poem, warning, prophecies, advice, conduct of our life in this earth but as well clean and unclean meat. So prefect yet some people抯 thing the Holy Bible is like story book.

infact many doctor and scientist agreed to unclean meat according to Bible.

Sephiroth

by Truth.8

But in Bible, God gave list of meat should be eaten and not. Not only Bible gives poem, warning, prophecies, advice, conduct of our life in this earth but as well clean and unclean meat. So prefect yet some people抯 thing the Holy Bible is like story book.

If an animal is "dirty" according to your God ... when WHY did you God created it in the first place? :stp:

If your God wants us to live, then why does He put signs all over the place to stop us from living?

infact many doctor and scientist agreed to unclean meat according to Bible.

YET simple thing like "You shall not commit adultery" is not followed in countries which called itself Christian OR by people who called themselves as Christians ;)

What is the good of your religion which stop you from eating certain meat of an animal but unable to stop its people from living like an animal? :nana:

[ Last edited by Sephiroth on 29-6-2004 at 11:24 AM ]

Truth.8

Originally posted by Sephiroth at 29-6-2004 11:21 AM:
If an animal is "dirty" according to your God ... when WHY did you God created it in the first place?

very simple to answer yet u are blind.

God create all those animals for purpose. For example pig, it eats anything frm shit, dead body and eats unstop and its clean environment by cleaning up the land. That抯 why God created this animals. Pig is considered like vacuum cleaner but we should not  consume it meat.

same goes to sea food (certain sea food not allowed to be eaten) like , shrimp, kerang, oyster and few others that eats dirt and unwanted  things in sea (dasar laut).....so it clean up environment.

Everything that God created has purpose and we should not question HIS power. HE already gives the guide line in the Bible and it up to us follow.

That抯 why many peoples suffer skin disorder, acne and etc because eating al those highly toxin sea food (unclean) and certain unclean meats.

Originally posted by Sephiroth at 29-6-2004 11:21 AM:
If your God wants us to live, then why does He put signs all over the place to stop us from living?  

God has HIS plan. we live and we die tomorrow and wil be awaken in last day. That is HIS plan

Originally posted by Sephiroth at 29-6-2004 11:21 AM:
YET simple thing like "You shall not commit adultery" is not followed in countries which called itself Christian.   

The Bible gives stern warning on that but human still act on that. who to blame??? just like ur gita stated that do not lie yet peoples lie? who u blame?

Originally posted by Sephiroth at 29-6-2004 11:21 AM:
What is the good of your religion which stop you from eating certain meat of an animal but unable to stop its people from living like an animal?
...

God fearing peoples do not behave like that. Take for example in the Bible.....many prophets are God fearing but they do not behaved animals.

I practise calm and peace do i act like animals? NO. I am God fearing human.

[ Last edited by Truth.8 on 29-6-2004 at 11:42 AM ]

fleurzsa

:nerd: Still following the posts here... to understand the gist...

Truth.8

Originally posted by fleurzsa at 29-6-2004 11:42 AM:
:nerd: Still following the posts here... to understand the gist...

u are welcome

Sephiroth

by Truth.8

very simple to answer yet u are blind.

God create all those animals for purpose. For example pig, it eats anything frm shit, dead body and eats unstop and its clean environment by cleaning up the land. That抯 why God created this animals. Pig is considered like vacuum cleaner but we should not  consume it meat.

When you urinate, where does it go? Into the ground, adds into the water supply and comes into your glass after recycle or even worse, into your plants which you sniff and some you eat. What's the verdict there?

Pigs nowadays are breed in a clean environment, so does cows which eat grass which sometimes littered with all kind of things. And goats, and chicken, and ducks etc. ;)

same goes to sea food (certain sea food not allowed to be eaten) like , shrimp, kerang, oyster and few others that eats dirt and unwanted  things in sea (dasar laut).....so it clean up environment.

I rather like Al Quran's version that everything comes from the sea are clean (except maybe dead people).

:hmm: Correct me if I'm wrong ... but didn't Jesus FED his followers Fish? Those fish were starve to dead first before been fed to the people is it?

Everything that God created has purpose and we should not question HIS power. HE already gives the guide line in the Bible and it up to us follow.  

Wrong ... Humans SHOULD question everything, other wise, they will not know which is right and which is wrong.

If one do not question, what the difference are you with a puppet without a purpose?
How do you create civilizations and new breakthroughs?

Hmph ... Now I begin to understand how the Europe could be in a Dark Ages for nearly 700 years. ;)

That抯 why many peoples suffer skin disorder, acne and etc because eating al those highly toxin sea food (unclean) and certain unclean meats.

People suffer things like skin disorder because of the collapse in their immune system and things like that. Ask any doctor and medical field. Are you saying that people who eat "clean" things don't get sickness? ;)

God has HIS plan. we live and we die tomorrow and wil be awaken in last day. That is HIS plan

You may die tomorrow, but you are alive today. What are you going to do to prove your existence today?
Sit in a corner somewhere and say "I gonna die tomorrow so I won't do anything?" Guess what kid, that's how the Dark Ages got started.

The Bible gives stern warning on that but human still act on that. who to blame??? just like ur gita stated that do not lie yet peoples lie? who u blame?

Fine ... one question ... why then should I follow a religion which has no control over its own people? :stp:

God fearing peoples do not behave like that. Take for example in the Bible.....many prophets are God fearing but they do not behaved animals.

I don't want to be part of a God-less society where even the priests and God's men have no power over their race.

Why should I bother with such religion? Why must I burden my existence with such outdated notion as the Bible? All to please a God which YOU cannot prove exist?

I practise calm and peace do i act like animals? NO. I am God fearing human.

Hmph ... Do you use multinick, Truth? That is one way of cheating others. ;) That is one way of lying by stating you are someone you are not. ;)


by fleurzsa

Still following the posts here... to understand the gist...

:stp: You have problem understanding it?

Truth.8

hmmm putting ur own opinion and words??? well, u will know the TRUTH  i am too lazy to rewrite again and again. i hve much better things to do and educate my C&C brothers and sisters.
U need that calling without that calling....u will still argue.

[ Last edited by Truth.8 on 29-6-2004 at 01:21 PM ]