Bhavagad Gita ...

Truth.8

Originally posted by Truth.8 at 1-7-2004 06:14 PM:



so this how u defend ur faith:stp:  clapping(:clap icon to runaway frm my question.

never mind about that atheist .....me asking that question.

so how??? confused or still unable to a ...

;):hmm::pmuka:

Sephiroth

Summarization of Jnana Yoga :

1. One has to perform duties which one is most suitable for. Whether one suitable or not depends on one's own interest and feelings toward a certain job. That is basic of caste, which later corrupted by Man by stating that Caste is hereditary and those who are born in a certain caste must perform the duties which he was born into.

2. There is three types of action - those which you are allowed, which you are not allowed and those which you have no control over (Fate).

3. Man can perform various feats of actions for various reasons. ONLY those which they performed for sake of God is accepted.

4. Actions which has no selfish/personal gains in the mind of the one who performs it will not bring Karma (good or bad) to him/her.

5. Those who lives in this world MUST sacrifice something for God in order to become closer to Him. The more you sacrifice, the more closer you are to Him. What you can sacrifice could be anything - Time, effects (proper one), actions, wealth etc. He who has nothing to sacrifice WILL gain NOTHING in the end.

6. He who controls his sensors and have faith gains Knowledge and with that knowledge, he will gain Mokasha/Nirwana.

Truth.8

Originally posted by Sephiroth at 5-7-2004 09:46 AM:
5. Those who lives in this world MUST sacrifice something for God in order to become closer to Him. The more you sacrifice, the more closer you are to Him. What you can sacrifice could be anything - Time, effects (proper one), actions, wealth etc. He who has nothing to sacrifice WILL gain NOTHING in the end.
...

mind elorating more in details what u mean by sacrific to god???::hmm:

Sephiroth

by Truth.8

mind elorating more in details what u mean by sacrific to god???

Mind explaining to me on why I should be wasting my time explaining anything to you?

Truth.8

Originally posted by Sephiroth at 5-7-2004 01:03 PM:
by Truth.8

mind elorating more in details what u mean by sacrific to god???

Mind explaining to me on why I should be wasting my time explaining anything to you?

so is this how u educate ur faith ??? when someone comes to me to ask about my faith, do i reply such tone??? Never

well, if u keep on running away from my question, then this board will be bored and sooner or later its will closed down without much forummer coming here or u prefer to stay alone here giving ur daily gita words here. what a pity.:gila:

well carry on with ur daily gita words....me ain't coming here anymore with ur funny answere.

choa

Sephiroth

Sannyasa : Renunciation

What is Renunciation? It means refraining from doing any actions which will lead to Karma.

Arjuna, asked   You praise renunciation of actions and also the pursuit of actions. Tell me for certain which one of these two is superior.

[Which is better? Restraining from actions which will cause Karma OR do some actions?]

Renunciation and pursuit of action are both instruments of happiness. But of the two, pursuit of action is superior to renunciation of action. He should be understood to be always an ascetic, who has no aversion and no desire. For, O you of mighty arms! he who is free from the pairs of opposites is easily released from all bonds.

[Answer - Both restrain from action and doing something is just instrument for happiness but doing things are better. Why? Because Man cannot refrain forever from doing something. So, if one cannot be stopped from doing something, one should be taught how to do it properly to reduce the damage one does to himself and others.]

Children 梟ot wise men梩alk of sankhya and yoga as distinct. One who pursues either well obtains the fruit of both. The seat which the sankhyas obtain is reached by the yogas, also. He sees truly who sees the sankhya and yoga as one.  

[Those who think both are separate are not wise men. By performing one, you are doing both. Explaination? Simple ... when a person refrain his body from doing something, there is a change that his mind will be thinking about something. That is an action itself. ]

Renunciation, Arjuna, is difficult to reach without devotion; the sage possessed of devotion attains Brahman without delay. He who possesses devotion, whose self is pure, who has restrained his self, and who has controlled his senses, and who identifies his self with every being, is not tainted even though he performs actions.  

[Those who have no devotion will find it hard to refrain himself from action. Devotion to God is key from refrain himself - physically and the mind. Those who managed to refrain his mind and body in a control manner will not be tainted by karma of his action.]

The man of devotion, who knows the truth, thinks he does nothing at all, when he sees, hears, touches, smells, eats, moves, sleeps, breathes, talks, excretes, takes, opens his eyes or closes his eyes: he knows that the senses deal with the objects of the senses. He who, casting off all attachment, performs actions dedicating them to Brahman, is not tainted by sin, as the lotus-leaf is not tainted by water.  

Devotees, casting off attachment, perform actions for attaining purity of self, with the body, the mind, the understanding, or even the senses梐ll free from individualistic notions.

   He who possesses devotion, abandoning the fruit of actions, attains the highest tranquillity. He who is without devotion, and attached to the fruit of action, is tied down by his desires.  

[Those who knows that the sight he sees, smells, touches, eats etc are nothing more than that of his sensors.

His sensors brings this "messages" to his brain and his brain interpreted it according to his understanding. Fire burns because his skin's pain reseptors, sound is heard because of the bones in your ears vibrate in a certain manner to that of the outside noise, nose and tongue smell and taste a chemical bonds in a food and send the signal to the brain which in return tells the person what a food smell and taste like, which is why people who has cold will say that a food doesn't taste good.

A person who refrain his sensors will know that this is just "illusion" of sensors and will not allow his mind to preoccupy with this illusions. He will perform his duty without desires for any of this "illusions" of the sensors with mind set on God alone.]

[ Last edited by Sephiroth on 5-7-2004 at 03:31 PM ]

fleurzsa

One question....

:hmm: So an individual responsibility is related with her/his social status?

Sephiroth

by fleurzsa

One question....

So an individual responsibility is related with her/his social status?

A person's interest in a work (teaching, protecting others, working for money etc) is related to his social status.

Example, if you have interest in teaching in a school, you can go and take that profession and become a teacher. In eyes of the society, you are a teacher.

Now that you have choose a status for yourself, you will have certain responsibilities which comes together with your status which you MUST perform.

A teacher's duty is to teach others what he knows. Sometimes, he also must show a good example of what he is teaching in order to become a good example to others.

In that context, your interest/emotions brings you your status and your status brings you your responsibility.

A teacher who loves to teach will teach others because of his interest in teaching. When he teaches others (perform his responsibility) and see his students happy and have knowledge for future endervaous, it will bring him happiness as well.

Sephiroth

[Continue from where I have left it ...]


The self-restrained, embodied self lies at ease within the city of nine portals, renouncing all actions by the mind, not doing nor causing any thing to be done.  

[The 9 portals refers to Eyes (2), ears (2), mouth, nose, touch, two excetory openings in your body.

A person who is self-restrained must control all this 9 portals from which sensations and illusions enters. ]

The king or lord is not the cause of actions, or of the capacity of performing actions amongst men, or of the connection of action and fruit. But nature only works. The king or lord receives no one's sin, nor merit either.  

[Be like a King of a land, be the lord over your sensors.

Just like a King cannot perform actions for the people under him, their actions will not give him sin or merits. That is how a self-restrained person should restrain himself, allow the sensors to accept sense (because that is what they are meant for) but remember them as illusions and discard them. ]

Knowledge is enveloped by ignorance, hence all creatures are deluded. But to those who have destroyed that ignorance by knowledge of the self, such knowledge, like the sun, shows forth that supreme principle. And those whose mind is centered on it, whose very self it is, who are thoroughly devoted to it, and whose final goal it is, go never to return, having their sins destroyed by knowledge.

[The Greek phisopher, Plato seems to speak of the same thing :

http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/GREECE/ALLEGORY.HTM ]

The wise look upon a Brahmana possessed of learning and humility, on a cow, an elephant, a dog, and a Svapaka, as alike.

[Svapaka is a word used in those days by society to refer to people who are in low caste.]

Even here, those have conquered the material world, whose mind rests in equanimity, since Brahman is free from defects and equable, therefore they rest in Brahman. He who knows Brahman, whose mind is steady, who is not deluded, and who rests in Brahman, does not exult on finding anything agreeable, nor does he grieve on finding anything disagreeable.

[Simple enough ... ]

fleurzsa

Originally posted by Sephiroth at 7-7-2004 10:09 AM:
by fleurzsa
One question....
So an individual responsibility is related with her/his social status?
A person's interest in a work (teaching, protecting others, working for money e ...

So when a person perform his/her responsiblity his/her have to think about the consequence, isnt it?

:hmm:

Sephiroth

by fleurzsa

So when a person perform his/her responsiblity his/her have to think about the consequence, isnt it?

Depends on the reason on why he is performing his responsibility.

If a teacher performs his duties for the sake of God and the pupils under his care, he is free from the consequence of his actions, because he has no attachment to it.

In same way, if a soldier fight for his country and willing to die for it, he is free from his actions, despite of those actions could also mean of taking another person's life. In his mind, he is killing someone who may hurt his country.

Whenever a person performs an action, he or she must first think of WHY he or she performing such actions. If he or she perform an action for his or her own beneficts (good or bad), then there will be merit or sin according to the actions performed.

This sin will entitle him or her to damn in hell for a certain time, and the merit will allow him or her into heaven for a certain time. BUT after this sins and merit have passed, they will return to be born in the World and continue to strive again.

ONLY actions which has no merit or sin generated from it will be a sacrifice to God and ONLY by this actions will one obtain Moksha (or release from rebirth) and return back to God.  

Note : Sins cannot be a sacrifice to God, only merits of a person's actions.

So what if someone lives for sake of God but did sins without knowing it?

Such person's sacrifice to God will still will be accepted but he will still need to be reborn onto the World to cleanse himself for his sins. A person who is born with body defects could be one of this person who have commited a small sin and willing to live the next life in such state.

fleurzsa

Now I understand the main point here.....:hmm:

A person have to perform his/her action without thinking about the consequence. He/she have to perform for the sake of God....

Correct me if Im wrong...

In Islam sincerity is encouraged too...:lebai:

Firman Allah SWT,

"Dan bandingan orang-orang yang membelanjakan hartanya kerana mencari keredaan Allah dan kerana meneguhkan (iman dan perasaan ikhlas) yang timbul dari jiwa mereka, adalah seperti sebuah kebun di tempat yang tinggi, yang ditimpa hujan lebat, lalu mengeluarkan hasilnya dua kali ganda. Kalau ia tidak ditimpa hujan lebat maka hujan renyai-renyai pun (cukup untuk menyiraminya) dan (ingatlah), Allah sentiasa Melihat akan apa yang kamu lakukan."

(al-Baqarah: 264)

Sephiroth

by fleurzsa

Now I understand the main point here.....

A person have to perform his/her action without thinking about the consequence. He/she have to perform for the sake of God....

Correct me if Im wrong...

Yup, I think you understood. I think it is acceptable to say it is an act of sincerity if one choose to push aside Karma and Reincarnation.

In Islam sincerity is encouraged too...

Firman Allah SWT,

"Dan bandingan orang-orang yang membelanjakan hartanya kerana mencari keredaan Allah dan kerana meneguhkan (iman dan perasaan ikhlas) yang timbul dari jiwa mereka, adalah seperti sebuah kebun di tempat yang tinggi, yang ditimpa hujan lebat, lalu mengeluarkan hasilnya dua kali ganda. Kalau ia tidak ditimpa hujan lebat maka hujan renyai-renyai pun (cukup untuk menyiraminya) dan (ingatlah), Allah sentiasa Melihat akan apa yang kamu lakukan."  

There is a LOT of need for sincerity in those days, hell ... even now as you can see in the environment around you.

A police officer who is not sincere with his work will promote criminals to act.

A soldier who is not sincere with his duty safe guarding the nation will allow enemies outside to enter and cause chaos. Enemies are not outside alone, sometimes within the country themselves.

A farmer who is not sincere with his work in the field will cause food supply to decrease. Sometimes it is act of nature and sometimes it is not, he should do what he can sincerely and leave the rest which is beyond his control to one who is beyond his understanding.

A merchant who is not sincere in business will cause economic slowdown and corruptions etc. One example is George Soros ... I persume everyone still remembers him.

A teacher who is not sincere will cause students to neglect his education. Which is why love among teachers and students are not allowed beyond that of a teacher and student relationship.

If a student is in love with a teacher and both accepted, the teacher or the student must finish the education and nullify the relationship first before stating a new one.

fleurzsa

Thanks to Allah we got brain...:pray:

Nothing is perfect. There is always a margin for error.

Every action has both merit and weakness, both truth and false perception.

It's vital to us to keep an open mind.:nerd:


Thanks..

Sephiroth

by fleurzsa

Thanks to Allah we got brain...

Nothing is perfect. There is always a margin for error.

Every action has both merit and weakness, both truth and false perception.

It's vital to us to keep an open mind.

Truth or False depends on our own perspective and Understandings.

Some people will say to perform one's duty without attaching yourself is an impossible task. I don't think so because EVERYONE doing it EVERYDAY.

When you watch a TV and sees a TV series, you will laugh, cheer, cry etc according to the actors and actresses in the show. WHY? By right, you have no need to do all those things because they (actors and actresses) are playing a role and that roles has nothing to do with you.

That is how you should behave in the real life. You are a person who is looking at the World as if you are looking at a TV show. Everyone is an actor and an actresses and how a person behaves is according to his scripts (set by his own mind, Not God). Disattach yourself from the World and do things required of you for the sake of others.

As long as you do not get involve emotionally or with selfish desires (cry, cheer, laugh, curse etc), you will be deattach from this World and leave it will be an easy task.

Sephiroth

[Continue from above ... ]

One whose self is not attached to external objects, obtains the happiness that is in one's self, and by means of concentration of mind, joining one's self with the Brahman, one obtains indestructible happiness. For the enjoyments born of contact between senses and their objects are, indeed, sources of misery; they have a beginning as well as an end. O son of Kunti, a wise man feels no pleasure in them.

He who even in this world, before his release from the body, is able to bear the agitations produced from desire and wrath and remain a devoted man, he is a happy man. The devotee whose happiness is within himself, whose joy is within himself, and whose light of knowledge is also within himself, becoming one with the Brahman, obtains the Brahmic bliss.

[A lot of people who are following religions but find no peace. WHY? A lot of this people abandon their own beliefs because they cannot find happiness in their activities according to their religion. WHY?

Even myself, I have meet a Hindu man who always meditate whenever he has a chance. He was one of my Computer Science teacher, teaching Maths and he always spoke highly about Meditation and spiritual activiity. One day, I saw him and ask how is his spiritual activity and he proclaimed "There is no God" with a unhappy face. WHY?

Because of their own selfish desires are added into their spiritual activities. When one seeks to gain something from his activity ... merit or escape from sin, he will be burden by it. He will not find happiness and those journey will be a hard one.

ONLY the one who leaves everything to God and lives life with as little desires as possible, do not seek to burden others with his problems and seeks to make others happy WILL find happiness for he is free from his own selfish desires and attachment.]

Note : Brahman in this sentences means God, Not Brahma the Creator or the caste, Brahmins.

The sages whose sins have perished, whose misgivings are destroyed, who are self-restrained, and who are intent on the welfare of all beings, obtain the Brahmic bliss.

To the ascetics, who are free from desire and wrath, and whose minds are restrained, and who have knowledge of the self, the Brahmic bliss is on both sides of death.

The sage who excludes from his mind external objects, concentrates the visual power between the brows, and making the upward and downward life-breaths even, confines their movements within the nose, who restrains senses, mind, and understanding, whose highest goal is final emancipation, from whom desire, fear, and wrath have departed, is, indeed, for ever released from birth and death. He knowing me to be the enjoyer of all sacrifices and penances, the great Lord of all worlds, and the friend of all beings, attains tranquillity.

[The above statement are regarding about sages who seeks to cleanse themselves from sins, ascetics people who seeks to free themselves from desires and have knowledge of Brahman and those who perform Yogic activities like meditation, Yoga etc.

All of them who restrain a self-restrain in life will achieve Brahman.]



Translated by Kashinath Trimbak Telano, 1882
Edited and annotated by Richard Hooker

fleurzsa

U have ur point there ;)

But in Islam all muslims r brothers & sisters....

Sabda Nabi SAW,

"Dalam hal saling bersaudara, saling berkasih sayang dan saling bercinta kasih, kaum muslimin adalah ibarat satu tubuh.  Jika salah satu di antara anggota badannya mengeluh kerana sakit maka seluruh tubuh merasa demam dan tak dapat tidur.
(Al-Bukhari)

Sephiroth

by fleurzsa

U have ur point there

But in Islam all muslims r brothers & sisters....

Sabda Nabi SAW,

"Dalam hal saling bersaudara, saling berkasih sayang dan saling bercinta kasih, kaum muslimin adalah ibarat satu tubuh.  Jika salah satu di antara anggota badannya mengeluh kerana sakit maka seluruh tubuh merasa demam dan tak dapat tidur.

(Al-Bukhari)

Help yourself first before you can help others.

There is no way you can make others happy, there is no way others can make you happy, there is no way Man can make another Man happy.

Why burden yourself with such concept of Brotherhood when it will only gives you pain? Because of your religion?  Again ... you are burden by your desires to be a good Muslim rather than to be devotee.

When performing duties and responsiblities, do it for sake of God and leave the rest. IF it is your duty as a brother or sister to inform your brother and sister when he or she commit an error, DO IT because it is asked of you to commit so and DO IT for His sake.

I don't know Islam concept of such but in Hindusm, when one calls another a friend, he also have a responsibility to whatever good or bad actions his friends does. Good actions should be praised, bad ones should be told so. Silencing oneself is one way of you not commited to your brother and sister relationship and responsibility.

fleurzsa

This thing is a type of sincerity. We feel good to see that our brother or sister have gained profit.  Then we will make some effort to gain our own profit.  

When we really did all these means we have near ourselves to Allah SWT through the highest devotion.:lebai:



Ps: Hope u could understand what I mean for.. I only use English in exam..:kant:

Sephiroth

by fleurzsa


This thing is a type of sincerity. We feel good to see that our brother or sister have gained profit.  Then we will make some effort to gain our own profit.  

When we really did all these means we have near ourselves to Allah SWT through the highest devotion.

What is sincere and what is not? I cannot judge that.

What is the limit of one's profit and what is one consider lost?

Will others be happy just because you are happy or will you force yourself to be happy just for sake of others? Is that true happiness?

But I know only one thing ... everyone has sense of purpose and responsibility, whether he or she has taken steps to fullfil that purpose and responsibility with Sincerity OR for his or her own purpose or desires, that is between you and your God.

Ps: Hope u could understand what I mean for.. I only use English in exam..

Use B.M if it is too troublesome for you.