Questions to Christians

Debmey

The morality part applies but not the laws.
Rituals also do not apply as the meaning of the rituals are already revealed.

Christianity therefore focuses on principles & morality, not rituals.

Cultures are therefore not destroyed under Christainity. Thats why i retain my Chinese name and follow Chinese festivities as long as they do not disrespect God.
Thats why we Christians worship God in our own language and use Bible translatiuons to our own language freely. To us, its the meaning that counts, not the way it is spoken or the language.
God is more interested in us knowing the meaning of his words, not the language it is spoekn, He is more interested in our behaviors and attitudes, not whether we follow rituals.
God is everywhere, yu don't need to pay pilgrimmage to anyplace or face anywhere during prayer, He can hear you.

sakinahmawaddah

The morality part applies, but not the laws?
My questions, if someone conduct adultery, is the judgement will be like this, it will be false in term of morality, but anyhow there will be no punishment as long you believe that Jesus a.s as a God? Is it true?

Originally posted by Debmey at 17-1-2005 08:41:
Romans 2:25-29
Circumcision has value if you observe the law, but if you break the law, you have become as though you had not been circumcised. 26If those who are not circumcised keep the law's re ...

Woi debmey, boleh cite sikit apa makna "Circumcision has value if you observe the law"

What about if u don't 'observe the law'?
Does it's mean u can do what u want? ...F**king around... :cak::cak:

Originally posted by Debmey at 17-1-2005 15:00:
The morality part applies but not the laws.
Rituals also do not apply as the meaning of the rituals are already revealed.

Christianity therefore focuses on principles & morality, not ritual ...

Just like confucian... no need to become Christian... it's just the same..
No wonder so many want to become Christian.. b'coz u can do what u please.. but it's mean nothing... habuk pun tarak... sebab itu agama pagan... u all saja perasan yang Christian tu agama wahyu.. :ah::ah::ah:

Debmey

Not true, where did you get that idea from?
The principles still applies but the laws are up to the different countries. Christianity considers adultery wrong but does not impose laws on people. In other words, the laws of the land applies.
The problem with islam is, it insists on muslims following islamic laws, this sets muslims up in conflict with others by default because most people in the world are not muslims. If muslims choose to follow islam fully, they will clash with others.
Islam cannot divine because it lacks wisdom but promotes conflict and discrimination by default.

sakinahmawaddah

The principles still applies but the laws are up to the different countries. Christianity considers adultery wrong but does not impose laws on people. In other words, the laws of the land applies.

Thanks for correcting my understanding. So that the laws of the land applies.
One example, if A raped daughter of B, so A is guilty and his punishment will follow the laws of the land, provided if A is proven guilty by the court. Let say, if the court in any how could not prove that A committed the charge, so A will let free. He will not be punish then. So, is A still a sinner or not?

Debmey

yes sir, God knows and 'A' is still a sinner regardless of whether he was convicted in the court of law.

On the other hand, Islamic law requires 4 male witnessess. Thats almost impossible and many rapists go scott free in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia because of that.
Do you think divine law has wisdom?

sakinahmawaddah

if A still a sinner, but A is a Christian who believe completely in Jesus a.s, and love him with all his heart, will A be save in the end of the day? Will salvation apply to A?
And the question on adultery, is there any law of the lands has been used to judge this kind of sins? As in Malaysia for Christians?

Debmey

yes sir. A will still get his salvation if he truely repents and understood the grace of God. Do you know of any man who never sinned? So where does that leave everyone?

I think adultery do carry certain penalties in Taiwan though they are not always applied. In most countries, the unfaithful can be brought to court and a divorce is legitimised.

I personally would like adultery to be outlawed.

So you see, the principle & moral view is intact. The punishment is up to the laws of the land, depending on which country you are in. Thats what I call wisdom.

sakinahmawaddah

so how about the daughter of B, B himself and the whole family, who will bring justice to them? what happened to the girl dishonor to herself and his family, the girl will be in trauma for a long of time, who will give justice to her?

snipersnake

Originally posted by sakinahmawaddah at 17-1-2005 10:28 PM:
so how about the daughter of B, B himself and the whole family, who will bring justice to them? what happened to the girl dishonor to herself and his family, the girl will be in trauma for a long o ...

bonus question of the day

Debmey

Originally posted by sakinahmawaddah at 2005-1-18 04:28 PM:
so how about the daughter of B, B himself and the whole family, who will bring justice to them? what happened to the girl dishonor to herself and his family, the girl will be in trauma for a long o ...

Let God do the justice in his time.

What abt those women in Muslims countries that were raped and their abusers not convicted because 4 male witnessess cannot be found?
Who will bring justice to them? Their own family members who will kill the women to preserve family honour? Or shld they conduct extra judiciary killings based on what they think is the rapists? What does islam have to say abt that? Thats bonus question alright.

nightlord

For all your postings, you muslim must also understand a term used in christianity called repentance.

Our lord Jesus teaches us mercy and forgiveness and that everyone is a sinner.

How many of you muslims can claim you are absolutely pure and without sin in your lives.

When faced with the stoning of an adulterous woman in the streets, Jesus told the people there that anyone who is without sin let him throw the first stone. With that, the crowd moved away and left the woman alone.

Jesus does not judge us for our mistakes in our lives or how many times we make them.

Like a loving father, he helps us realise our mistakes and forgives us like a father forgives his child when the child makes mistakes.

And hopes like all fathers do that we realise as we grow as adults what is right and wrong.

This is where repentance comes in. Repentance in christianity mean a total realisation of what we have done wrong and wish to change or make complete changes to our lives so that we go forward in the right direction.

In christianity, a murderer is given absolution and a chance to go to heaven in Jesus name if he truly repents, not by words but by a change of heart and realisation of the hurt and harm he has caused others.

This what our lord Jesus has brought us in his short ministry, that our God like a loving father is waiting in heaven waiting for us to grow up, loving us for all our faults, understanding our weaknesses, forgives us for our trespasses and finally bringing us into his arms in our final hours like a loving father welcoming a not-so-perfect child home.

sakinahmawaddah

How about the Christians which is the worst evil doers in the earth, which never repent, but of course for whole of his live he never deny the Christianity and he love Jesus with all his heart, will salvation apply to him?

sakinahmawaddah

Please correct my understanding,
It is possible for Christian to become the worst evil doers in the earth, and do the evil things again and again, but he has to have these in his mind:
1. Believe in the principle of Christianity, the Trinity, believe in Jesus.
2. Don't let yourself be caught by any law authority or you will be punish.
3. After doing all the evil things, repent.

My question is, for the person who has been abuse, like daughter of B, for B, the whole family, who will bring the judgement for them as A is free from all charge because the judge cannot convict him for the crime?
As all Christian who believe in Jesus, will eventually go to heaven.



When, the judgment will be brought out for B family, once and for all.

Debmey

Originally posted by sakinahmawaddah at 2005-1-19 09:14 AM:
How about the Christians which is the worst evil doers in the earth, which never repent, but of course for whole of his live he never deny the Christianity and he love Jesus with all his hea ...

If he does not repent and accept God's grace while calling himself a Christian, he will not make it to heaven. Christianity is a faith with action, not in thought or works. How can a person that is truly repentant keep on wanting to sin?
Understanding the grace of God and loving Him will keep you from sinning.

Again, rituals will not help you, God is not a mickey mouse and cannot be manipulated by rituals and God is not interested in rituals. Rituals will not help anyone gain salvation.

sakinahmawaddah

Sorry, I've miss this out.

From Nightlord
In christianity, a murderer is given absolution and a chance to go to heaven in Jesus name if he truly repents, not by words but by a change of heart and realisation of the hurt and harm he has caused others.

Which mean, if he not repent, but he still a Christians, he believe in Jesus, he never deny the Trinity concept in any possible way, but he not repent, only then he will go to hell? (If this true, can you give me verse/s stated this matter for my references, thank you). Or he still have the chance to go to heaven?

sakinahmawaddah

Originally posted by Debmey at 19-1-2005 09:41 AM:



If he does not repent and accept God's grace while calling himself a Christian, he will not make it to heaven. Christianity is a faith with action, not in thought or works. How can a person t ...

can you give me the verse/s showing that the sinner will not make it to heaven?

Originally posted by sakinahmawaddah at 19-1-2005 09:45 AM:
Sorry, I've miss this out.

From Nightlord
In christianity, a murderer is given absolution and a chance to go to heaven in Jesus name if he truly repents, not by words but by a change of h ...

Matthew 9
10 And it came to pass, as Jesus sat at meat in the house, behold, many publicans and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples. 11 And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners? 12 But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. 13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Matthew11
20 Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not: 21 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. 22 But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you. 23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. 24 But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.

Debmey

Originally posted by sakinahmawaddah at 2005-1-19 09:48 AM:


can you give me the verse/s showing that the sinner will not make it to heaven?

Do you have a physical copy of the Bible?