what is the punishment for RAPE, INCEST, MOLEST under Christian Law

Originally posted by Debmey at 25-2-2005 01:21 PM:
Christianity has the moral laws, the form of punishment is up to the laws of the land.
Even if there are rules for punishment, whats the use if you get away with it?
Even if you get punished, w ...

Korang ada law ke...pakai hentam je kot......ubah sana ubah sini...suka hati korang:music:

Christianity has the moral laws, the form of punishment is up to the laws of the land.
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Islam is better, it has the moral and criminal laws and also the penalties and punishment entailed for relevant misconducts, if not here on earth with man made laws or as prescribed by God , it will be hereinafter.

Shows only that Christianity is not complete.

Even if there are rules for punishment, whats the use if you get away with it?
Even if you get punished, w ...
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Why are you confusing and contradicting yourself?  First you said, Islamic laws are irrelevant, Christians have moral laws and that is sufficient whilst man made laws as punishment is good enough.  Now you are saying that what is the use of man made laws if the perpertrator is "not right" in the heart?

So, I am very interested to hear what you would say, if  a Christian perpertrator despite all the Christian moral laws, committed a grave crime, escaped the man made laws on earth, what would happened to him in the hereinafter?  Why god make his heart wrong in the first place without giving him the chance to repent in his life here on earth when your god is the god of love?

If your god of love pardons him in the hereinafter, you might as well enjoy all the things the ten commandments forbid you to do, and break all the moral laws here on earth now cos bad or good, you will still be "saved" at the end.

[ Last edited by samerosie on 25-2-2005 at 02:29 PM ]

So back to the topic Debmey, is there a moral law in the Bible for incest, rape and molest?  

Yes or No?

Debmey

Ever heard of the ten commandments?

What good are those criminal laws in Islam.
Not only are they unjust, they also create problems for the world.

The existence of sharia actually proves that islam cannot be divine.

AbdurRahman R. Squires, a Muslim writer is so right when he says this:


"To have an atheist, agnostic梠r anyone else who does not believe in a Divinely revealed basis for morality梒riticize something that is "politically incorrect" by today's moral standards comes as no surprise.


Such people will always find something to criticize, since they simply have a bone to pick with "religion" in general.  All of this "absolute morality" talk gets in the way of them having a good time, so they want to mock it, discredit it and do away with it.


The criticism of Christians, however, is another matter.  While it is true that Christians speak out against the "moral relativity" which is spreading amongst the increasingly secular society today, they too are unconscious victims of it.


The values of most Christians today come from the humanist values of Western Europe (or, at a minimum, are heavily influenced by them).  Their values DO NOT  come straight out of the Bible梚n theory or in practice梤egardless of what they may claim.

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That Christians today try to take credit for the so-called "Freedom", "Human Rights", "Democracy" and "Women's Rights" in Europe and America is nothing short of a joke.


'Born again' Christian

It may impress uneducated people in so-called Third World countries, but anyone who has studied history knows that these things came about in spite of the Church, not because of it.  

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The way in which many Christians uncritically mix non-Christian values with (allegedly) Biblical values has always fascinated me. :dia: (This is what Debmey and the rest of his 'tails'  in this  forum are doing). Following the footsteps of that fella in the pic up there.


One interesting example of this is how nationalism and patriotism are supported amongst the majority of Evangelical Protestant (and even other) Christians in the United States.   In America, good Christians are flag wavers.  Few, if any, of these fiercely patriotic minds ever seem to realize that narrow-minded patriotism is, at its core, both selfish and non-universal.  That patriotism and Christianity go hand-in-hand in the minds of many people is just an example of how we can be blindly sucked into "moral relativism" without even realizing it."

[ Last edited by KENNKID on 25-2-2005 at 03:12 PM ]

Originally posted by Debmey at 25-2-2005 02:32 PM:
Ever heard of the ten commandments?

What good are those criminal laws in Islam.
Not only are they unjust, they also create problems for the world.

The existence of sharia actually  ...

My my my, what big fonts you use?  Is it for you to better see you own daftness?

The ten commandments
7.  Thou shalt not commit adultery.

I'm sure this includes incest, rape, molestation, and all other unclean sexual acts , thoughts and lusts.  But how do you define "incest" cos I remember in the Bible, there are "incests" taking place, after moses's time, also the lust of David.  Cain married his sister, and in fact, Abraham was "rewarded" for marrying his sister.

So Debmey what is the law on incest? Shows you know your Bible so much doesn't it?

If I was a good Christian, I would be able to answer Oreng's question in an instance without having to boil crap porridge like you do.

Go see Leviticus 18-20 then go home and ask your mother to send you to a proper bible study class.

And btw, there are punishments described by the bible for these crimes.

[ Last edited by samerosie on 25-2-2005 at 03:03 PM ]

greekgod

Originally posted by Oreng at 25-2-2005 02:57 AM:
(if there is any that can be called Christian Law).

So far i know (from my reading dear debmey, you can ask the name of the book if you are interested with reading), that the laws about for such mentioned activity was according to jewish law, which was derived from tanakh.

since christianity was a derivatives religion from previous jews religion, as said that christianity accepted OT as their books, and IN MY VERY OPINION, christian too have to accept the laws from jews.... "stoning"!

greekgod

Originally posted by samerosie at 25-2-2005 10:54 AM:

samerosie...

debmey tak lari la...
dia just hiding jups jer....

rasanya dia kuar pergi jumpa paderi besar dia kot..
pergi confirm citer ko tuh...

ko bukan tak tau.. banyak sangat ilmu "keISLAMan" debmey tu, sampaikan dia sendiri lupa ilmu pasal agama kristian...

aku sedih betul dengan dia... kadang2 nak tergelak pun ada.... biasalahkan, apabila kurang membaca tapi menganggap dirinya macam SuperBible pulak....

aduh!

Biasalah greek, lari biar thread ni senyap pas tu dia menular balik.  Dah tak tau sendri pasai agama dia nak tomah macam2 lak.  Bible dia pun tak pass baca.

DivinePonytail

Sometimes we have to enjoy our real life, not hanging in this forum all the time.
Give that guy a break. You guys need it too.

greekgod

Originally posted by DivinePonytail at 25-2-2005 01:06 PM:
Sometimes we have to enjoy our real life, not hanging in this forum all the time.
Give that guy a break. You guys need it too.

yeah.. sure...

i only come to this forum before i went back from my workplace...

besides, my job requires me to read and collect news and waiting for anything from internet.... that is why i can almost instanteneously answer any thread.....

oklah.. give debmey a break... dia batuk tuh.. karang tersedak sampai mati... mesti boring.. tak dapat dengar penipuan lah lagi!

Originally posted by Debmey at 2005-2-25 11:10 PM:
There are three kinds of laws from the Torah.

Moral laws - ten commandments
Civil laws - eg stoning for adultery
Ceremonial laws - circumcision & sacrifices

Christians only ne ...

God's laws according to paul is no law. Its called 'lawless'. Its for the Godless.

[ Last edited by KENNKID on 25-2-2005 at 11:15 PM ]

Debmey

Paul is lawful. The real problem is, you have never read the Bible before.

Originally posted by Debmey at 2005-2-25 11:16 PM:
Paul is lawful. The real problem is, you have never read the Bible before.

Lawfully (satan's law)  lawless Godless  paul.

Debmey

what talking yu my fren?

Originally posted by Debmey at 2005-2-25 11:20 PM:
what talking yu my fren?

You no understand? I have known all along how thick you are.

Paul is lawful according to satan's law. He has thrown away all of God's laws.

KaiserPheonix

I agree. Saul has agreed that the Laws of Torah has been *rectified* ur nullified by Jesus hanging on the Cross e.g the Sacrifice. So, Saul only asserts that only faith and love will bring a believer to God's Kingdom.

Funnily. Debbie stated that the Laws of Torah is geared towards the Jews. If the Ten Commandments is invalid to Christians, the what is the basic tentes of Christianity itself?

Jesus Christ himself stated that "He cometh not to change, but to make even" the Laws of Torah, so, obviously, even Jesus is bound by the Commadments. Even in his life and teachings, he was towards re-intrepreting the command from the Torah, and being a good example to his people, but really, he did not introduce any canonical law then.

Christian scholars agreed that Paul has come up with many of the canonical law, and for ages people had been following them without question. Well, the Popes are the legacy of the Spirit of Saint Paul, not Jesus himself.

Your claims has *destroyed* the institution of the Vatican Papacy, the centre epitome of the Roman Catholic! If your stand is this... Then what is RC to you?

KaiserPheonix

You have stated that Christian laww is ordained by God. As I have said it before, Chrsitian Law is mainly brought up by Paul... including the Trinity. Pope is a legacy of the Spirit of Saint Paul, right?

If Jesus Christ did not come up with any Moral Codes at his time, where did Paul get the Canonical Laws? From Yhwh? Which part of the Bible tells you that?

Debmey

There are three kinds of laws from the Torah.

Moral laws - ten commandments
Civil laws - eg stoning for adultery
Ceremonial laws - circumcision & sacrifices

Christians only need to follow the moral laws.
Ciivil laws are meant to fits only the Jews at their time and age, even Jews to not folow them today.
Ceremonial laws are meant to explain God's salvation grace and have been fulfilled by Jesus, we do not have to follow them anymore.

As we can see, this system of Christian belief is full of divine order and wisdom. Only God could have oredered it.

On teh contrary, Muslims by insistence on sharia and hudud is stupid as it sets muslims up in perpetual conflict with others and themselves and also outdate itself from modern way of life. Would a divine God be so stupid as to built in strife by default for his followers? This alone proves that Islam is not divine.

peace