1 + 1 + 1 =1 OR 1 x 1 x 1 =1

sparrow

Originally posted by Oreng at 16-5-2005 09:24 AM:
Not only us, but YOU as well. You are pretending as if you understand. God is ABSOLUTE ONE, that is very much better and easily understood. God make us easy to understand Him, not difficult. I thin ...

Look, i'm going to be very frank.. You guys were the ones asking the questions.  You guys were the ones challenging us for answers on trinity, my friends. I'm only posting in answers to what YOU asked, not because I want to show you how much I know. YOU asked a question, and I'm answering it to you, that's all.

Read my threads above again.. properly. I NEVER said that God is three.. I said that God is ONE.. yes, three-in-ONE, see the ONE there?

read again my answer on the trinity,., the answer to your "My God, My God.. why have you forsaken me?" I emphasized that God is ONE:

read again my post above:
When we pray, we don't pray to God the father, God the Son, or God the Holy Spirit separately, we just pray to GOD as ONE being.

[ Last edited by sparrow on 16-5-2005 at 03:47 PM ]

SHALOM !

To Greekgod :

Oh my , u wrote a lengthy argument but it is so irrelevent to the concept of Holy Trinity , or if u want to put it in mathematical form :
1x1x1 = 1.

U wrote so many equations , defining the equations but in the end , u dun even have any argument at all ! It s like a claptrap .

Why are u still using vector to represent God ? Is God smtg that you can measure ? Vector means qyantity such as velocity ( speed at which something travels ) that can change and is measured by its size and direction .

So , are u trying to say God is vector  or they have vectors ? Then , it s u who make such conclusion not me . So obviously ur "trinity" formulae is wrong .

Simple as this

1 x 1 x 1 = 1

where 1 is the multiplication of the same number .

so is

God The Father x God the Son x God the HS = GOD

where God is the multiplication of same NATURE .

From this equation , we know that these three persons share ONE NATURE , that is the GOD NATURE . That s why , in the end - it still consider as ONE GOD .

Go and check again the definition of HOLY TRINITY . Then u understand the formula.

ps - When people give an example , they want to show you the Idea behind the example ,not the subtance of the example . Get it straight .


- ARCHANGEL-

anti_aktivis

okay guys , now I already confuse regarding quantity of God in Christian. Hmmm so dificult la.

OKay guys another question from me , any chance easter bunny and santa claus is also God . Hmmmm 5 in 1 god.

SHALOM !

But, god jesus can act on its own, and father god can act on his own. ability to act on its own is a proof that each is separate entity.

Well.. yeah , you are right . Father god can act on his own ability , and so is Jesus . But yet , when u said act on own ability , meaning that they are not contractiding themselves in action . They compliment each other action . Why , because they share the same GOD NATURE . They share the same essence . They are equal . No one is better than the other . Of course , they are separate " entity" as meaning , they are separate in person , but still they are ONE GOD , because they have ONE GOD NATURE . If they dont share the same GOD NATURE , that is , each one of them has their own GOD NATURE , then that s what u call 3 gods .

The point is.... trinity was collapes during the death of jesus.  wehre xplaination abt trinity during de deth of jesus?

Well... i dunno about Islam , i dunno how u guys see death , but for christians , death means the separation of body and spirit , where the body dies but the spirit lives . So when we die , our spirit separate from the body. Same like Jesus , when he died on cross , his body died but NOT his spirit .
So , ur theory that says the trinity collapsed when Jesus died is totally wrong , if u agree with ur theory still , then u r agreeing that Both spirit and body died when we die .

so where did Jesus spirit go after he died and b4 he rose again in physical form ? He went to the world of the death :


18For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but MADE ALIVE IN SPIRIT , 19through whom[d] also he went and preached to the spirits in prison 20who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built.

1 peter 3 : 18 -19


The prison is Hades where the spirits of those imprisoned by Satan were awaiting salvation.  He destroyed the authority of Satan, 揌e led captivity captive, And gave gifts to men

SHALOM !

To Oreng :

God is ABSOLUTE ONE, that is very much better and easily understood.

My friend , what have i been saying so far ? We christian , believe in ONE GOD , absolute ONE GOD . No one says that we believe in 3 gods ? I guess , u will never gonna understand anything .

Lemme ask u this - what do u understand with ONE ? Does it mean that when u say ONE , it means ONE in quantity ?

Not exactly . When i said , i have ONE ringgit , does that mean i have 1 note of 1 ringgit , or does that mean i have 2 50 cents or does that mean i have 10 10 cents ? All are correct ! So when u said ONE , it doesnt mean that it has to be ONE in quantity . You see... that s the beauty of ONE .

But what about HOLY TRINITY - it applies the same .
When God say HE IS ONE , He is indeed ONE ! We christian believe God is ONE . But there are 3 persons in the godhead , and all these three share one GOD NATURE - taht s why we said , we believe ONE GOD in three persons ,but these three persons share ONE GOD NATURE - that s why in nature , they are still ONE .

- ARCHANGEL -

SHALOM !

To anti- aktivis :

any chance easter bunny and santa claus is also God .

No , santa claus is Jesus' grandfather , bunny is Jesus' favourite pet !!

- dont ask silly question or u might get a silly answer .

- ARCHANGEL-

anti_aktivis

OOOO , Santa Claus is jesust's grandfather , thats mean SC is Father of God. So now supposs (1+1+1)1=1 (where 1 outside the group is SC)

No comment about easter bunny , I do agree bunny is good to kept as pet, kind a cute animal.

[ Last edited by anti_aktivis on 16-5-2005 at 05:06 PM ]

Originally posted by Archangel at 2005-5-16 04:55 PM:

When God say HE IS ONE , He is indeed ONE ! We christian believe God is ONE . But there are 3 persons in the godhead , and all these three share one GOD NATURE - taht s why we said , we believe ONE GOD in three persons ,but these three persons share ONE GOD NATURE - that s why in nature , they are still ONE .

The closest present day religion, which has a Trinity, as its core belief is Hinduism. In the Hindu philosophy Lord Brahma is the Supreme God of Creation, Lord Vishnu is the Sustainer God and Lord Shiva is a God of Destruction.

Hindus, who worship multiple deities, justify their dogma as monotheistic belief on the ground that each deity stresses one or more aspects of The One Supreme God, called Brahma.

There are hundreds of gods and goddesses in various Hindu temples. But each has its own specific power and place in worship, depending upon a particular aspect or aspects of the Supreme God that he or she stresses or represents.

This is very similar to the Trinity in Christianity; however, most Christians who view the Hindu religion will condemn it as Polytheistic.


The question for Christians is why then do they not view their own religion as Polytheistic if they think the Hindu Religion is polytheistic?

  
How can the singularly absolute God with his indivisible oneness become three separate beings with three independent decision centers. For example, if all three entities are confined to their own domains for thought and decision-making, then how do they coordinate the separation and joining process of the three different entities?


Which entity dictates the split of the one into the three? Is it the Father, The Son, or the Holy Spirit?

There must be some cause for this controlled effect and that causative factor acting supreme over the three will be the Omnipotent God and not any one of the three, which are only the effect of the supreme controlling cause.

Based on the following analysis it does not appear that all three entities are coordinating their efforts. Jesus appears to be confined to his own domain with no access to his Father's mental processes or knowledge. The following three examples prove how Jesus is unable or not allowed to transcend into omnipotence, even admittedly by Jesus himself :

- Since Jesus does not know of the Day of Judgment he does not have unlimited access to God's information, hence, he is confined to his own domain.

Matt 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.   


-  Here is another example of how Jesus does not have unlimited access to God's knowledge.

Mark 5: 25-32   And a certain woman, which had an issue of blood twelve years,And had suffered many things of many physicians, and had spent all that she had, and was nothing bettered, but rather grew worse,    When she had heard of Jesus, came in the press behind, and touched his garment.For she said, If I may touch but his clothes, I shall be whole.And straightway the fountain of her blood was dried up; and she felt in her body that she was healed of that plague. And Jesus, immediately knowing in himself that virtue had gone out of him, turned him about in the press, and said, Who touched my clothes? And his disciples said unto him, Thou seest the multitude thronging thee, and sayest thou, Who touched me? And he looked round about to see her that had done this thing.


-  Jesus himself acknowledges that the Father is greater than himself and how he does not have the ability to access his father's resources,

John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.



- The following verses further prove how Jesus is unable to tap into all the powers of God, even if it meant saving his own life. Moreover, if Jesus is God why does he insist on crying in order to gain help. He really seems confined to his domain of thought and decision making to the extant where it really frustrates him, hence, he cries! This proves his frustration that he cannot transcend his own domain into that of God's.

Luke 6:12 And it came to pass in those days, that he went out into a mountain to pray, and continued all night in prayer to God.

Hebrews 5:7 During Jesus days on earth, he offered prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him?



-  The following verse further shows how Jesus is confined to his own domain of thought and decision making. For example, Jesus asks a QUESTION in major disappointment. This verse also shows that Jesus is dependant on some other source for help.


Matt 27:46 My God My God why hast thou forsaken me?

Furthermore, if Jesus were God than why does he not say in this verse: "Myself, Myself, why hast I forsaken Myself?" Would not this be complete nonsense?


Food for thought here, from a non Muslim website (Written by a Jewish person, I believe) :

http://www.yrm.org/trinity-fact-fiction.htm

[ Last edited by KENNKID on 16-5-2005 at 05:42 PM ]

Terlebih Kuah

Originally posted by sparrow at 2005-5-15 07:57 PM:
When do people's spirit die when their body dies? Not in Christianity, we believe that altho our body die, our spirit lives on.. and will be destined to go to heaven, or to hell. Jesus died physically, but not His spirit.

which part from jesus yell to God? His physiccally or spirit?

Jesus was yelling to GOD. I know you guys have difficulties understanding this. God in three persons, doesn't mean there are three Gods - it's just that God revealed Himself to us in three ways. (ie, we see Him in three ways, we come to know Him in three ways He works with us, and shows Himself to us in three ways...)

;)

God the Father - the God Almighty, all knowing, all loving,.. all things great and mighty

If de fader is All loving. de fader noo need to sacrifice hi son for human sin. u ask in prayer then ok la wat?...
If de fader, de fader should not have any associte with HIM. De fader can be stand alone. In ur case... de fader is not al mighty. sorri 2 say dat.

God the Son - God is revealed to us through God the Son (ie, Jesus Christ). ie, we come back God through Jesus - it is through Jesus death, that we are can come back to God.. (after being separated from God because of sin).

:
U make me remember 2 de idolaters. Dey worship  idol, but they dey said dey not worship idol but dey can go 2 god throuhg it.

God the Holy Spirit - the Spirit of God that fills our hearts, after we believe in the Lord Jesus. (ie, the holy spirit that guides us in God's truth and love)

:ah:
If de fader is all mighty, HE can make anything. posible + imposible.

When we pray, we don't pray to God the father, God the Son, or God the Holy Spirit separately, we just pray to GOD as one being.

In USA... there is only 1 presiden. not 3 in one.

sparrow

Originally posted by Archangel at 16-5-2005 04:57 PM:
SHALOM !

To anti- aktivis :
No , santa claus is Jesus' grandfather , bunny is Jesus' favourite pet !!

- dont ask silly question or u might get a silly answer .

- ARCHANGEL-

lol... archangel... u really do have a sense of humor!

from 4th gods to demigods to santaclaus and bunnies... whatever next?!
i'm gonna die laughing...

anti_aktivis

Originally posted by sparrow at 16-5-2005 06:30 PM:



lol... archangel... u really do have a sense of humor!

from 4th gods to demigods to santaclaus and bunnies... whatever next?!
i'm gonna die laughing...

Kah kah u even laugh at 4th god , can u imagine how we laugh at trinity concept.

SHALOM !

To anti-aktivis :

Kah kah u even laugh at 4th god , can u imagine how we laugh at trinity concept.

hehhe.. that s good. Everybody is laughing . Laughing is good for your health   Cheers , my friend .

- ARCHANGEL -

anti_aktivis

Originally posted by Archangel at 16-5-2005 06:55 PM:
SHALOM !

To anti-aktivis :



hehhe.. that s good. Everybody is laughing . Laughing is good for your health   Cheers , my friend .

- ARCHANGEL -

yes indeed , laughing is good for health.

Why is laughing good for your heart?
The benefits of laughing lie in its effect on the inner lining (endothelium) of the walls of your arteries. The endothelium plays a vital role in maintaining blood flow by regulating the diameter of the blood vessels.1

Damage to the endothelium is one of the factors involved in cardiovascular disease.1

Laughing seems to make the endothelium expand; stress seems to narrow it.1 So laughing helps keep your artery walls fit and well, helping to maintain good blood flow.


http://www.bupa.co.uk/health_inf ... ws/160305laugh.html

But anyhow dunno what happen is over laugh

Oreng

ABSOLUTE ONE means ONE that cannot be identified into further parts.

ONE RINGGIT is not an absolute because it can be identified into cents.

Mind you, ABSOLUTE is an English word.

To you, god is not an ABSOLUTE ONE.

sparrow

Originally posted by Oreng at 18-5-2005 11:19 AM:
ABSOLUTE ONE means ONE that cannot be identified into further parts.

ONE RINGGIT is not an absolute because it can be identified into cents.

Mind you, ABSOLUTE is an English word.

To you,  ...

remember human? human = body+soul+spirit?

as a human, you have:
1) a body (the physical "fleshly" shell of you (tubuh/badan)
2) a soul (the life in you - the one that breaths, walks, talks.. etc
3) a spirit (the real you inside) - the one that is going to heaven/hell when you die

but aren't you absolute ONE? yet, that ONE has three things IN it. If not, when you die, your soul (life) will extinguish, your body cannot be left on earth to be buried, and your spirit cannot go to heaven without the other two.


now.. let's do this: either we progress in our discussion, or stop arguing okay? you are repeating your questions round and round using the different words and examples.. i'm not arguing with you here, i'm just trying to answer your questions. but i don't want to repeat my answers round and round using the same points. so if you want to ask further questions.. read my previous replies.. if you ask a question that is hitting on the same point, then it has already been answered, and there is no need for it to be answered again, okay?

anti_aktivis

sparrow , have question . Which one jesus either  body or soul or spirit?

sparrow

Originally posted by anti_aktivis at 18-5-2005 06:16 PM:
Which one jesus either  body or soul or spirit?

i'm not sure if i understand your question correctly..
If i'm wrong, please explain.. what do you mean, by which one is Jesus?


Well... this is how we Christians see Jesus :

Firstly, we  believe that Jesus is God. Jesus is God who came down and lived on earth in the form of a man.

Therefore
1) Jesus is God, God is a Spirit
So while Jesus is in heaven, Jesus is a Spirit

2) But Jesus is God who came down to earth to live as a man
hence, while Jesus was living on earth, he has a body, soul and Spirit.
This Spirit, is the same Spirit as (1) above...

Does this answer your question?

wira_melayu

Originally posted by sparrow at 18-5-2005 10:43 PM:

Well... this is how we Christians see Jesus :

Firstly, we  believe that Jesus is God. Jesus is God who came down and lived on earth in the form of a man.

Therefore
1) Jesus is God, God is a Spirit
So while Jesus is in heaven, Jesus is a Spirit

2) But Jesus is God who came down to earth to live as a man
hence, while Jesus was living on earth, he has a body, soul and Spirit.
This Spirit, is the same Spirit as (1) above...

Does this answer your question?

...

Hi sparow,please let me interrupt the discussion.thanks:tq:

Your logic  are more likely proven 'God' to be a monster.
Is Jesus a shapeshifter?

You may perhaps justify the existense of werewolves,Dr.Jeckyl and Mr.Hide,Wolverine etc.

THE SUPPOSED END OF "GOD"

The Dying "God": "And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost." (Mark, 15:37)

The "God" That Was Supposed Dead and Defunct: "Christ died." (Romans, 5:6). "He was dead". (John, 19:33)

The Supposed Corpse of "God": "he (Joseph of Arimathaea) went to Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. Then Pilate commanded the body to be delivered." (Matthew, 27:58)

The Shroud of "God": "And when Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth." (Matthew, 27:59)

The Orbituary of The Late And Lamented "God": "Now when the centurion saw what was done, he glorified God, saying, certainly this was a righteous man." (Luke, 23:47)

SHALOM !

To Oreng :

ABSOLUTE ONE means ONE that cannot be identified into further parts.

Same like sparrow , i ask the same q : arent u an "absolute ONE " ?

- ARCHANGEL -

SHALOM !

To Wira_melayu :

The problem with you : either you dun read what ppl have been writing or you have been ignorant OR you have problem to understand what ppl have been writing OR you try not to understand what ppl have been writing .

which one ?

- ARCHANGEL-