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literature that insult muslim sensitivity

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Post time 5-2-2006 02:49 PM | Show all posts |Read mode
i wrote this in my blog (basically on books i read for pleasure) a few nights ago but i thought i'd share this with you here..

Seems like religious bigotism is rearing its ugly head in the western front again. First we hear that UK "religious hatred bill" was defeated *...and my feeling is the ruling labour party was really not too keen to get this bill passed anyway..if not how can we explain the bill was lost by one vote and that was Tony Blair's himself ! ....i personally don't give a damn what happens in british parliament and anyway i'm all for freedom of speech and all that.... and of all person "Mr Bean" rowan atkinson wrote a very good defense** on why the bill should not be passed and performers should be given the "right to criticise religion"....

well..i'm all for criticising religions and my biggest wonder is how on earth can billions of intelligent people worship a bumbling mediocre jew at best and quite possibly not even a historical figure as GOD!!...but i respect everybody's right even if he wants to be an idiot...but but but...making fun , making jokes and insulting any religion is quite a different thing....

...and may be it's not a coincidence that immediately after this farcical defeat of the religious hatred bill today's guardian unlimited had a big news*** about more papers publishing controversial cartoons that allegedly making fun of Prophet Muhammad...I said allegedly because I do not know how offensive they are as I've not seen them....

Well, we'll have to wait and see if there are any strong reaction from some sections of muslim world to this...may be this time ...when the hardliners are on the defensive in every corner of the world the reaction will not be too intense such as what happened to that fool salman rushdie - i in fact love his writings and have all his books with the exception of his latest but he just went too far with his ( ironically ) very good "satanic verses"....

it may be that the muslim response (to the insulting cartoons) this time is like the response to michel houllebecq's infamous "islam is the stupidest religion" outburst (which i think was the right one too) is just to ignore and let it die out....but then again despite winning dublin impac prize for 'atomised' houllebecq does not have a big enough stature for anybody to take him too seriously...and i agree with Will Self (who writes much better ) that he is just a little prick who doesn't get enough sex.....

i've tried to read atomised a couple of times but never get past page 30....but i did finish his short novel...more correctly a novella or just a long short story...Lanzarote...a forgettable book apart from one quite genuinely singular observation...on the third page he wrote this which i find quite amusing...

'it's not arab countries i don't like, it's muslim countries' I went on.'I don't suppose you have any non-muslim arab countries , do you?' It would be a tough question on Question pour un champion: a non-muslim arab country....you have forty second.
but again...we never know...may be we just need a couple of suicide bombers to blow themselves in some newspaper headquarters somewhere to teach these western *****s not to fool around with islam....

*
http://www.guardian.co.uk/frontpage/story/0,,1699397,00.html

**
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/h ... /0,,1698385,00.html

***
http://media.guardian.co.uk/site/story/0,,1700733,00.html

[ Last edited by Greenbottle3 at 5-2-2006 02:55 PM ]

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Post time 5-2-2006 08:12 PM | Show all posts
media negara-negara spt bulgaria, itali, holland, perancis dll...turut sama menyiarkan...
dgn memberi alasan ianya kebebasan media...u can see the pic (links given at the CI board...)

bantahan..antaranya lubnan dll pelbagai negara Islam...
malaysia - antara pemimpin yg tlh menyuarakan ketidak puasan hati...pak lah, syed hamid albar, hishammuddin..

an article pertaining to this...

The right to be downright offensive
By Jonathan Duffy
BBC News Magazine

"What is freedom of expression? Without the freedom to offend, it ceases to exist," wrote Salman Rushdie. It's 15 years since Rushdie's novel, the Satanic Verses, earned the Booker Prize-winning novelist death threats, but the question persists.

The decision by Birmingham's Rep theatre to call off a play after protests by the city's Sikh community turned violent at the weekend, has reignited the debate on what, if any limits, should govern freedom of speech.

Only last week, the comedian Rowan Atkinson led a call defending "the right to offend", against government plans to outlaw incitement to religious hatred.

Atkinson argues the law would force "creative thinkers" to bite their tongue, and so produce a "veneer of tolerance concealing a snakepit of unaired and unchallenged views".

In November, the killing of filmmaker Theo Van Gogh in Holland appeared to highlight the pressures on free speech in a multicultural society. Van Gogh had recently made a film accusing Islam of promoting violence against women, and the man charged with his murder is thought to have radical Islamic links.

The right to freedom of speech is still relatively new and we are like adolescents, insufficiently mature in how we should use it
Henderson Mullin
There can be no question that one's right to be offensive and the absolute right to free speech are two sides of the same coin.

But in Britain, as in most countries, the absolute right to say whatever comes into one's head is an illusion. There are rules to limit what can be said.

Among them are laws against incitement to racial hatred, the common law prohibition of blasphemy, and libel laws. A few years ago Tony Blair's government tried to pass a law that would make it an offence to deny the Jewish Holocaust, although this was eventually shelved.

Yet despite these constraints, the British cherish a broad right to speak their minds.

Given these limits, is it not possible, as many Sikhs protesting in Birmingham have argued, to frame a law that allows freedom of speech while keeping in check our freedom to offend?

No, says Henderson Mullin, managing director of the campaign group Index on Censorship, although in the debate sparked by events in Birmingham he is irked by the championing in some quarters of the so-called right to offend.

Art at the extremes

"I get a bit disturbed when people talk about a right to offend. It's not a positive thing," says Mr Mullin. "The UN declaration talks about freedom of speech, freedom of conscience, freedom of religion, not our freedom to offend."

The crux of the matter is that one person's attempt to shock, outrage and offend is another's legitimate form of creative expression.

It's a murky area of discussion, one that is entirely subjective. But what about art at the very margins of popular acceptance; art that appears to almost everyone to serve no other purpose than to be offensive?

Away from the stage, it is the visual arts that seem most likely these days to elicit gasps of incredulity and disgust from the general public.

There's a tradition in the visual arts of works which are conceived primarily to offend, says John A Walker, author of a book about art and outrage.

"The Dada cabarets in Zurich during the First World War set out to offend the governing military classes," says Mr Walker. Even Edouard Manet, he adds, set out to offend by challenging the 19th Century taboos of nudity with works such as Dejeuner sur L'Herbe and Olympia.

Today, the "growing deluge" of artists graduating from college, means many resort to causing offence, says Mr Walker, simply as a means of standing out from the crowd.

Just ignore it

Daily Telegraph art critic Richard Dorment despairs of the trend for art that, in his eyes at least, sets out simply to offend. As a critic, he has wrestled with how to respond - after all, condemning it unreservedly runs the risk of generating further publicity. And as the modern proverb goes: no publicity is bad publicity.

Confronted with a picture of a crucifix floating in urine, by the photographer Andreas Serrano, Mr Dorment was so incensed he simply refused to review it.

"It offended me personally. It was just the artist longing for publicity," says Mr Dorment.

A similar argument has been levelled at the response to the Birmingham play Behzti - such rigorous condemnation has raised its profile. If the play is staged again in the city, as a rival theatre company has pledged to do, there will be no shortage of people queuing for tickets.

Henderson Mullin believes such examples reveal how we are struggling to handle the enormous responsibility of free speech.

"It's damaging that people see free expression simply as a right to cause offence," says Mr Mullin. "The right to freedom of speech is still relatively new and we are like adolescents, insufficiently mature in how we should use it.

"But censorship is never the answer. Whatever offence people at the margins seek to cause, you have to trust that there are enough people at the core of society who will not be swayed to the extremes."

Story from BBC NEWS:

[ Last edited by seribulan at 5-2-2006 08:15 PM ]
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Post time 6-2-2006 03:57 PM | Show all posts
... aku sedih gile sebab kita orang islam benar2 diperlekehkan
di mata dunia...
tak perlu pandang jauh la kan,
tengok aje kes yg mensiarkan semula karikatur nabi tu
kat Sarawak Tribune... newspaper omputeh kat sarawak nu...
apa motif...

bila tengok tv smlm, kita tengok kan, betapa marahnya penduduk
islam kat seluruh dunia... dan lebih terguris bila baca news yg kes
kat sarawak tu... mmg biadap, kurang ajar tol berani nak tunjuk
taring konon, padan muka dah letak jawatan pun ketua tu... mmg
niat busuk...  

sampai bila ye islam kita tertindas... mmg benar, kita org islam yg
hidup zaman skrg mmg dlm zaman kegelapan islam... mmg sakit hati
benar nak menempuhi zaman kegelapan ni bg aku... sedih sebab
kenapa harus agama suci kita diperlekeh kan... nak naik semula
ke zaman kegemilangan mmg akan masa lama, mungkin aku sendiri
tak sempat nak menikmati zaman kegemilangan islam akan dtg...
kita org islam yakin akan suatu hari nanti kita akan gemilang di mata
dunia... sebab itu mmg dah termaktub kan...

ps: (sori)... :cry:

[ Last edited by adik_nazgul at 7-2-2006 12:04 AM ]

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husz This user has been deleted
Post time 6-2-2006 04:21 PM | Show all posts
Originally posted by adik_nazgul at 6-2-2006 03:57 PM
ps: sgt sedih, kenapa harus aku hidup zaman skrg, alangkah best nya
kalo aku dpt bersama ngan nabi pd zaman dulu...  


tak baik cakap camtu...zaman sekarang ke..zaman nabi ke..umat islam perlu bangun dan berjuang demi mermartabatkan agam Islam tu...zaman dulu pun ada cabarannya gak...

perkuatkan iman kita...insyallah..kita akan diberi petunjuk oleh ALLAH..

aku pun marah gak ngn artikel nie...
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 Author| Post time 6-2-2006 05:25 PM | Show all posts
pasal menghina islam ni bukan perkara baru...sejak zaman berzaman lagi...dalam penulisan barat dulu dulu kadang2 nama nabi di panggil 'mahound'..untuk tujuan menghina...ada banyak orientalists menulis (dalam bentuk ilmiah) dengan cuba memperlekeh kan islam dalam banyak aspek...

tetapi penghinaan secara keterlaluan dan ejekan murahan pada kebelakangan ini  saya lihat bermula dengan satanic verses- salman rushdie.. kemudiann ada lagi pak turut2 third class seperti Taleema taslim dari bangla desh...houllebeqc dll..

penghinaan penulis lain dengan lebih subtle pun banyak... dan aneh nya bayak penulis2 terkenal yg berugama Islam sendiri banyak juga berbuat begini...yg paling ketara ia lah pemenang nobel prize dari Mesir Naguib Mahfouz...hanif khureishi dalam cerpen2 nya tidak menunjukkan  aspek positif orang islam... orhan pamuk menyatakan dia tak pernah pergi masjid dan sembahyang itu hanya untuk orang miskin saja... di malaysia ni pun banyak penulis2 melayu 'avant garde' yg jenis 'kuning'...tidak menunjukkan jiwa keislaman ....

saya tak mau komen pasal  aspek politik di sini ...
tapi kalau kita sendiri memandang lekeh perjuangan Islam apa tah lagi orang2 bukan islam...
yg surat kabar di serawak tu, mengapa dia berani buat demikian?  sebab nya dia yakin di malaysia ni tidak ada orang yg akan berdmonstrasi, pergi bakar pejabat mereka...atau bunuh mereka...

***

Hukuman Menghina Rasulullah Sallallahu 'alahi wa sallam
   
  Bentuk-Bentuk Menghina Rasul
  

  Imam Ibnu Taimiyah dalam bukunya "Ash Sharim Al Maslul 'ala Syatimi Ar Rasul" telah menjelaskan batasan tentang tindakan orang-orang yang menghina Nabi Muhammad Sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallam sebagai berikut:
   
  "Kata-kata yang bertujuan menyalahkan, merendahkan martabatnya, kemudian melaknat, menjelek-jelekkan, menuduh Rasululullah Sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallam tidak adil, meremehkan serta mengolok-olok Rasulullah Sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallam"
   
  Ibnu Taimiyah menukil pendapat Al Qadhi 'Iyadh yang menjelaskan bentuk-bentuk penghinaan Nabi Sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallam sebagai berikut:
   
  "Orang-orang yang menghina Rasululah Sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallam adalah orang-orang yang mencela, mencari-cari kesalahan, menganggap pada diri Rasulullah Sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallam ada kekurangan atau mencela nasab (keturunan) dan pelaksanaan agamanya. Selain itu, juga menjelek-jelekkan salah satu sifatnya yang mulia, menentang atau menyerupakan Rasululah Sallallahu 'alahi wa sallam dengan orang lain dengan niat untuk mencela, menghina, mengecilkan, memburuk-burukkan dan mencari-cari kesalahannya. Maka orang tersebut adalah yang orang yang telah menghina Rasulullah Sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallam terhadap orang tersebut, ia perlu dibunuh . . ."

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Post time 7-2-2006 12:03 AM | Show all posts

Reply #4 husz's post

sori husz...
aku tak berniat apa2...
aku sedih...
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Post time 7-2-2006 12:18 AM | Show all posts
Ladies and Gentlemen,

I believe Muslims have taken the provocation on the recent caricatures too emotionally. I do understand the sentiments portrayed by the cartoons and by the cartoonist himself. But, we as Muslims should be critical of our responses, instead of blatantly acting like barbarians.

Islam does not preach us to burn the property of others nor ask us to act without moral regards. If thats the case, we are no better than these non-Muslims.

Of course, in todays world, especially when dealing with Europeans, we must realise that their mind-set is different. Furthermore, the mind-set Europeans have are totally without regards of respect but instead champions freedom to its utmost extend.

What we are facing is another form of extremism. This time is called the outer-end of freedom of expression. We cannot confront such malice with another form of extremism. We must earn the respect of those who does not have the foresight to.

The main focus is that we shouldnt degrade our religion to the beliefs of those who have none. Protests to this cartoons are fine, even a civil action to explain to them what Islam is even better. But to act without regard to compassion and without mercy, I believe the Holy Prohphet does not teach.

R6

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Post time 7-2-2006 08:06 AM | Show all posts
kalau Rasulullah saw, masa nazak, perkara pertama yang baginda ingat adalah umatnya.. Umat akhir zaman dia -kitalah tu..
Tapi bila pk balik, alhamdulillah aku hidup disebut-sebut Rasulullah masa baginda nazak, maknanya dia sangat kasih dengan umatnya yg akhir zaman ni..

yelah, skrg banyak benar cabaran dalam mendewasakan diri dan membesarkan anak-anak, hatta iman turun naik pun, Allah masih sayang, iman setipis bawang pun Allah janjikan syurga..

aku rasa untung umat akhir zaman ni sebab Rasulullah rindu hendak bertemu
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 Author| Post time 7-2-2006 05:29 PM | Show all posts
Rainbowsix...a fine comment but...

first, you must understand that Islam is not only a personal religion as most other religions are...but a complete way of life..ad din...every single action even going to toilets have rules and regulation as specified in fiqh...let alone when it comes to blasphemy and insults to the prophet ...

western people are not only insulting Islam but they are stoking fire by provoking further by continuing this insult...this is not only unacceptable but must be severely punished...

non muslims (and many many muslims too)  are  ignorant or choose to ignore this (Islamic syariah/laws) hence the non muslims  think that they can get away with murder....

when you suggest  a more 'civilized' response should be given to this insult...the question is since when does this kind of response give results? from the beginning of history we have seen that these people only understand might...

I personally think that the response should be more than mere intellectual discussion letters of protests to govt and reprimand in forums and newspapers...... that b**astard editor from danish newspaper who started it should be severely punished...the the other newspapers that are now continuing the provocations should be dealt with too...this will teach other infidels not to fool around with Islam...

it's a pity that the fire of Islam has been killed in the heart of many malaysian muslims... they don't feel the anger and pain anymore despite this terrible insult....this i find the saddest thing of all....

i feel a warm admiration to hear that even in CHECHNYA there is a strong protest and demonstration bacause of this! and Chechnya  govt lest you forget is under Russian lead government!!..but in malaysia??..not a whimper...not even a headline in newspapers!!!
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Post time 7-2-2006 06:26 PM | Show all posts
Kalau Islam dipermain kita marah, tapi bila agama lain dipermain (atau orang Islam mempermain agama orang lain) buat dekkk jer.....

Orang Islam ni apa? Kabilah yang terpilih ke? Eksklusif membela diri sendiri shj?
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 Author| Post time 7-2-2006 07:22 PM | Show all posts
mr pessoa... sapa yg permainkan ugama lain? as far as i know banyak kalangan mereka sendiri yg permainkan ugama mereka..but then again we can not equate ugama lain dengan ugama islam sebab the whole approach to religion is totally different...
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Post time 7-2-2006 11:56 PM | Show all posts
We cannot equate Islam with other religion, why? Because we are muslims? And we believe Islam as the one true path? Yes?

Well, should we not consider that christians and jews feel the same way about their own religion? Aren't christianity and Judaism way of lives to? Isn't religion, essentially,  a way for one to lead his/her own life?

Sure we think they are wrong. But Israelites think the Muslims are wrong. people who elected Bush think the rest of the world is wrong.

Look at us from their perspective. The perspective of the common God fearing Jews and Christians. What do you see? People who call themselves muslims blowing things up. Killing other people. Opressing their own people. Opressing other people.

Did you hear about what the Iranian papers (or is it only one?) wanted to do? Cartoons about the holocaust. And don't we get every other year hear in our fair country stories about Christians converting into muslims? Isn't that an insult to Christians? What if a christian filmmaker wanted to do a story about muslims converting to Christianity.

Will that be allowed?

We want people to respect us. To be fair to us. But we don't accord them the same virtues.

Is that what Islam is all about? Being a hypocrite?

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Post time 8-2-2006 12:10 AM | Show all posts
Green,

I do understand of the emotional attachment we all have towards Islam, but we have to look at it in a more realisitc way. These Europeans do not have the moral restriction to begin with.

Its difficult to try to contemplate the digressing civilizational direction of the Europeans as religion does not govern their value nor norms any longer. To try to compel them to repsect Islam when they themselves dont even respect their own religion is something far fetched.

Look at it from another angle. During the time of the Holy Prophet, he himself was the target of malicious acts. The battering he recieved from children in Taif and many more. However, did he take to the offensive, no. Not on all occasion.

"You do not do evil to those who do evil to you, but you deal with them with forgiveness and kindness." (Sahih Al-Bukhari)

Another point, is that when Allah completed the revealation of Islam, He promised that Al-Din will be protect by none other but He Himself. Nothing less. I for one believe that Islam will be protected. However, the way Muslims over-reacted by burning embassies and demanding that these Europeans to respect wouldnt work.  

We must confront this issue in a civilized manner. Dialogues, protest and even a civil action to boycott are acceptable. These are to me what Islam is all about.

R6

[ Last edited by RainbowSix at 8-2-2006 02:46 AM ]
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 Author| Post time 8-2-2006 01:22 AM | Show all posts
pessoa;

your liberal attitude is admirable...but if it's left to people like you muslims as we understand it is lost!... for you everything is permissible because the world say everything is permissible....

with people like you muslims and non muslims will be indistinguishable...

i totally disagree that all religions are the same...to say they are the same is oxymoron...i'm not trying to be chauvinistic about islam but the fact is the world view of islam and the world view of other religions ARE different.

It's true that islam does not condone unwarranted agression  but  you must understand that as i said previously Islam unlike other religions (with perhaps the exception of orthodox jewish religion which has close parallel to islam) is a complete way of life and whether you like it or not there are rules and regulations that you must obey ...this include  prescribed punishments for those who insult the prophet....your ignorance or westerners' ignorance of this  is not an excuse and does not negate the laws...

i'm not saying that other religions don't have rules and regulations because of course they do... although some aspects are universal (do not steal, lie murder etc..)  many other aspects are totally different (eg certain syariah laws)...

it's not islam's problem that other religions are more 'tolerant' and can tolerate abuse and insults to their religions...that's not islam's concern...

... you and the non muslims are free to do what you deem fit but you  must understand that in Islam if you do certain acts you must face the consequence because it's in the islamic laws...and the ultimate penalty for insults to the prophet is death...whether you like it or not...

and rainbowsix...

please understand that these good muslims never start the provocations..it's always the others that stoke the fire which provoke the reactions...you think that good 'civilized' diplomacy is the way... but i say, thanks to the hardliners... those infidels who are hell bent on denigrating islam will think twice about doing the same again in future...

i salute the brave muslim demonstrators the world over...
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Post time 8-2-2006 02:45 AM | Show all posts
I wonder whether there is an uneven hand trying to materialise the clash of civilisations by pitting Islam and the West.

R6
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husz This user has been deleted
Post time 8-2-2006 09:40 AM | Show all posts
Originally posted by Greenbottle3 at 8-2-2006 01:22 AM
pessoa;

your liberal attitude is admirable...but if it's left to people like you muslims as we understand it is lost!... for you everything is permissible because the world say everything is per ...


agree with green bottle...salute brave muslim warrior...

Who are mocking other religions???..who???..as far as I know...only Islam been mocking by other religion...not the way back...

I totally agreed with greenbottle3.

Aljihad du fisabillilah.....ALLAHU AKBAR...
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Post time 8-2-2006 01:53 PM | Show all posts
nasi tambah...

Akhbar Iran anjur lukis kartun -- Mengenai Holocaust uji kebebasan bersuara Barat

TEHERAN 7 Feb. - Sebuah akhbar terkemuka di Iran akan menganjurkan pertandingan kartun mengenai Holocaust untuk menguji sama ada Barat akan menggunakan prinsip kebebasan bersuara yang sama terhadap peristiwa pembunuhan Yahudi di tangan Nazi itu.

Akhbar-akhbar di Eropah telah mempertahankan hak mereka untuk menyiarkan kartun yang menghina Nabi Muhammad s.a.w. itu atas nama kebebasan bersuara.

Hamshahri, antara lima akhbar terlaris di Iran, menjelaskan bahawa pertandingan itu sebagai reaksi terhadap tindakan akhbar Eropah menyiarkan semula kartun yang pada mulanya muncul dalam sebuah akhbar Denmark.

Tindakan mereka telah mencetuskan tunjuk perasaan, boikot produk Eropah dan serangan terhadap kedutaan Eropah di seluruh dunia Islam.

Menurut Hamshahri, pertandingan itu akan dilancarkan pada 13 Februari ini dan dianjurkan bersama-sama Dewan Karikatur, iaitu sebuah pusat pameran kartun di Teheran.

Hamshahri dan pusat kartun tersebut dimiliki oleh Dewan Bandar Raya Teheran yang dikuasai oleh sekutu Presiden Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

Mahmoud tahun lepas mencetuskan bantahan keras Barat apabila beliau berkata, Israel patut dilenyapkan daripada peta dunia dan peristiwa Holocaust hanyalah satu mitos.

Hamshahri mempelawa kartunis asing menyertai pertandingan itu sambil menyatakan pihaknya ingin melihat sejauh mana Barat bersikap terbuka terhadap kartun tentang Holocaust.

``Adakah Barat memperluaskan kebebasan bersuara untuk menyuarakan jenayah yang dilakukan oleh Amerika Syarikat (AS) dan Israel atau untuk mempersendakan peristiwa seperti Holocaust? Atau adakah kebebasan bersuaranya hanya untuk menghina tokoh-tokoh agama?'' tulis Hamshahri dengan merujuk kepada kartun menghina Nabi Muhammad itu.

Sementara itu, akhbar Denmark, Jyllands-Posten yang membangkitkan kemarahan penduduk Islam seluruh dunia kerana penyiaran karikatur menghina Nabi Muhammad, sekali lagi mencetuskan kontroversi hari ini apabila pihak pengurusan akhbar berkenaan enggan menyiarkan karikatur Nabi Isa.

Menurut akhbar tersebut, keputusan untuk tidak menyiarkan karikatur Nabi Isa dibuat tiga tahun lepas apabila mereka bimbang penyiaran itu boleh membangkitkan sensitiviti dan kemarahan penganut Kristian.

Beberapa siri karikatur Nabi Isa telah dihantar oleh seorang pelukis ilustrasi Denmark, Christoffer-Zieler kepada editor Jyllands-Posten edisi Ahad, Jens Kaiser pada April 2003 untuk tujuan penyiaran namun idea itu ditolak.

Ekoran pendedahan kontroversi itu, seorang jurucakap Jawatankuasa Memuliakan Nabi Muhammad di Eropah, Ahmed Akkari menyifatkan ia sebagai satu keputusan yang berat sebelah dan membayangkan sikap hipokrit media Barat.

``Bagaimana Jyllands-Posten boleh membezakan kedua-dua kes itu? Seharusnya, mereka (Jyllands-Posten) perlu memahami hakikat sebenar isu itu,'' katanya. - Agensi
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Post time 8-2-2006 04:52 PM | Show all posts
i noticed this <--- mungkin ni  ff:

Dan Brown's Angels and Demons....

       A deeply anti-Christian Illuminati. They grew very powerful, employing mysterious rites, deadly
secrecy, vowing someday to rise again and take revenge on the Catholic Church. Their power grew
to the point where the church considered them the single most dangerous anti-Christian force on earth. The Vatican denounced the brotherhood as Shaitan.
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Post time 8-2-2006 05:43 PM | Show all posts
come to think of it, gorgonz punye excerpt somehow reminded me of Dan Brown's The Davinci Code yang terang-terangan mempertikaikan credibility of the origins of christianity today.. Dah buat movie pun.. anyway, tak kisah la depa nak kutuk their own religion..

anyway, i have to agree with greenbottle, well at least to me, Islam is different, and we cannot treat Islam as if it is just 'one of the religions'. I've read somewhere that some people view religion as seeing lights from different perspective, thus the different religion. But i cannot agree with that, i'm not that liberal with this religion thingy i guess...
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Post time 8-2-2006 08:21 PM | Show all posts
kontroversi ini akan diperbincangkan di persidangan antarabangsa...yg bakal diadakan di Malaysia...
siapa bercakap bagi pihak Islam...siapa bercakap bagi pihak bertentangan...
tetamu-tetamu yg bakal hadir... cendekiawan2 Islam....antaranya bekas Presiden Iran...Mohd. Khatami...
Isu2 utama- antaranya... salah-faham, serta peranan media...serta cabaran
teknologi barat ke atas dunia Islam...
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