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Originally posted by FaithHealer3 at 25-6-2006 01:04 PM
just one more. b4 i take a break..
See the irony about quran reciding.. there are just too many muslims who read the quran verses in arabic without being able to understand the meaning.
Th ...
I'm one of them but surprisingly, thanks to Allah swt., I understand Islam better than before. Like this saying - terang hati. Even the Jews read & chant their Torah in the original language of the Holy Scriptures. I'm sure most Jews esp. in US & other parts of this world apart of Israel don't speak their original language. But still the Jews move forward & people like you depend entirely on them. Am I not rite? Without the Jews, US is nothing. Even UK is nothing. Again am I not rite? |
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Reply #124 FaithHealer3's post
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very surpirisingly, the cetak rompak happened to be 1400 years ago? any science book at that time teaches such thing, or did bible? |
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Reply #124 FaithHealer3's post
I disagree with you. I think Bible is many times better than Quran.
better in what perspectives?
here some perspective that i guess you might want to know....
http://askelm.com/secrets/index.asp
That word "READ" in the surah was meant for Muhammad. The story is that when Mohd was in a Hira cave, a spirit came and pressed him forcing him to READ when Mohd don't even know how to read.. what a intelligent spirit.
err... did in any history says that the Angel came with a book? And wasnt the revelation is in Arabic, which the mother tougue of Muhammad.
then, what is the problem? Muhammad is illiterate, but doesnt mean that he is mute or deaf.
kalau ko lain la kot... |
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Originally posted by greekgod at 25-6-2006 02:24 PM
better in what perspectives?
..in making a debate based on contradiction.. |
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Reply #184 juwaini's post
definitely!
here some "secrets" from the bible..
Is the Spirit a Personality?
We are told in the Bible that Christ Jesus has the express image of the Father (and conversely, the Father looks expressly like Christ Jesus). Is the Holy Spirit also a divine personality like the Father and Christ who also looks precisely as they do? Almost all Christendom accepts as a test of orthodoxy that the Holy Sprit is an equal personality with the Father and Christ and that the three personalities comprise "one God" called the Trinity. Is the Godhead composed of three identical personalities who are independently or collectively called "one God"? The principal question is this: Is the Spirit a personality of the Godhead?
Whereas the Bible teaches that the Spirit of God is everywhere in the universe (Psalm 139:7) and that it is also within the millions of Christians on earth today (Galatians 5:25), then how can it be a personality like the Father and Christ while being in millions of people at the same time? The Spirit can also be poured out on people (Acts 10:45), how can a personality who appears like a human being (as does the Father and Christ) be "poured" out on people like water? Note too that all the introductory salutations of Paul and the other apostles in their epistles greet people in the name of the Father and the Son, but the Holy Spirit is always left out? This would be a slight to the Holy Spirit if the Spirit were indeed an equal personality with the Father and Christ. Indeed, Paul limited the mediatorialship between the Father and mankind to one personality (Christ) without mentioning the Holy Spirit (I Timothy 2:5). The Spirit is really the power of the Father and Christ to carry out their purposes in the universe (II Timothy 1:7). It is not a person of the Godhead.
The apostle John, however, called the Holy Spirit a "he" or a "him" in several places in his Gospel (John 14:17, 16, passim). Yes, but John was simply personifying the Spirit as a figure of speech. Biblical writers commonly personified inanimate objects. Ears are attributed to the heavens, the earth, death, destruction; hands to the oceans; eyes to the sea and mountains, etc. But no one seriously believes these figures depict actual personalities. They are simply figures of speech and the Bible has hundreds of them.
Still, if the preachers and priests wish to make the Holy Spirit a real personality (which was concocted in the fourth century by introducing non-biblical principles about the nature of the cosmos as understood by out-dated and erroneous Platonic philosophical concepts), then we have a precise definition from the New Testament itself on the actual bodily shape and form of the Spirit. "And the Holy Spirit descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him [Christ]" (Luke 3:22).
Now the truth is, this description of the Holy Spirit as having the bodily shape of a dove is simply a figure of speech (like the "he" and the "him" in John's Gospel which refer to the Spirit), but if the preachers and priests who call themselves "orthodox" apply their non-biblical principles to show the Spirit is actually a literal personality, then they have invented a divine person who looks like a small male bird weighing about three pounds which has the form of a dove. By making the Spirit a literal personality (to maintain their absurd and inexplicable church doctrine of the Trinity, which is not biblical), they have established a "Bird God" as a member of the Godhead. This is a blasphemous concept invented to uphold Plato's teachings. Such beliefs are no better than those of the ancient Egyptians who also had a "Bird God" as a member of their pantheon. Really, the inexplicable doctrine of the Trinity is anti-biblical and is pure absurdity. [For more information on this important subject of the Holy Spirit see Appendix Three.]
==========================
Does God Have a Wife?
Does God have a female companion that we on earth would call his wife?
The apostle Paul made an overall statement of belief regarding the nature of God and the Godhead. This is what he said: "For the invisible things of him [God] from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made [that is, the visible creation around us], even his constant power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse" (Romans 1:20). Thus, we are to look to the visible creation to know about God.
Paul was stating in the above verse that even those Gentiles who had no written revelation of God (such as the Holy Scriptures that we have) could still understand facts about the nature of God and the Godhead itself. This was by observing "the things that are made" [the visible creation around them]. Now, the creation is made up of humans who are both male and female. Indeed, the human race could not be re-creating itself without the union of males and females. The animate world, especially in the higher forms, also has male animals and female animals and the vegetable world has male plants and female plants. The inanimate world, so the scientists inform us, has properties of positive and negative elements which are analogous to the male and female counterparts in the animate world (these positive and negative factors have nothing to do with social or meritorious classifications, they are simply force particles or electrical factors). This means that all of the visible creation has male and female counterparts in almost all its life forms (especially its higher ones) and even in the inanimate there are positive or negative forces |
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Originally posted by greekgod at 25-6-2006 02:53 PM
definitely!
here some "secrets" from the bible..
Is the Spirit a Personality?
We are told in the Bible that Christ Jesus has the express image of the Father (and conversely, the ...
my bro, why did u copy and paste?
that's a very long articles...
my eyes tired to read it..
maybe u can use your own words..
make summary
that's better...  |
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Originally posted by juwaini at 25-6-2006 01:24 PM
at least if they read it, there's a ganjaran for them from allah.
if they understand it, there's another ganjaran...
not everybody can do everything..
not all of us is superhuman...
any problem with that?
The muslim in Arabia wasted their live hoping for ganja.. ehh ganjaran from Allah.. by concentrating on Quran.. and they find nothing to improve the human standard of living.
Originally posted by juwaini at 25-6-2006 01:24 PM
anyhow,
did u really understand what ur religion teach u?
if u understand it, why did u insult other religion?
don't ur religion forbid u from doing that?
what is my religion? pls enlighten me.
Originally posted by juwaini at 25-6-2006 01:24 PM
don't just looking for the negative things...
that'll increase your paranoid level...
You can't have poison in medicine and take it too. If there is good and bad in something then the bad thing must be checked out and not ignored. Few drops of poison goes a long way.
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Originally posted by Baiduri Othman at 25-6-2006 01:48 PM
I'm one of them but surprisingly, thanks to Allah swt., I understand Islam better than before.
I rest my case..
i doubt you understand the real islam. You only believe what you been told.
If you knew the real Islam, you would not wanna be a muslim. The islam that you people follow is not the real one. Osama and Talibans follows the real islam.
Its not only Baiduri who don't understand Arabic, majority of muslim don't. but they claim they know islam.
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Originally posted by greekgod at 25-6-2006 02:19 PM
very surpirisingly, the cetak rompak happened to be 1400 years ago? any science book at that time teaches such thing, or did bible?
Read about Galen. since you claim to be in Greece why don't you find the ancient greek medical books there.. books of Aristotle and Galen. that touches on embryology.
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Originally posted by FaithHealer3 at 25-6-2006 09:51 PM
Yeap its a big propblem. While the west have practically invented every stuff that we use today. They don't just memorise what they read they GO and LEARN and INVENT THINGS. There is hardly any discoveries coming from the Arabia.. the land where islam was born.
The muslim in Arabia wasted their live hoping for ganja.. ehh ganjaran from Allah.. by concentrating on Quran.. and they find nothing to improve the human standard of living.
ah, another statement from people who is buta sejarah...
most (if not all..) of theory in mathematics began at islamic and hindus world..
don't u know that? :hmm:
what is my religion? pls enlighten me.
so an atheis doesn't have moral guide?
You can't have poison in medicine and take it too. If there is good and bad in something then the bad thing must be checked out and not ignored. Few drops of poison goes a long way.
show me the poison of islam...
this is my challenge.. |
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Originally posted by FaithHealer3 at 25-6-2006 09:52 PM
I rest my case..
i doubt you understand the real islam. You only believe what you been told.
If you knew the real Islam, you would not wanna be a muslim. The islam that you people fol ...
it's better to have something as faith.... |
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Originally posted by FaithHealer3 at 25-6-2006 09:52 PM
Osama and Talibans follows the real islam.
....plus those terrorist:setuju: |
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Originally posted by Truth.8 at 26-6-2006 12:37 AM
....plus those terrorist:setuju:
nope, they don't even follow the same path of islam...
osama ben laden used to be 'kuda tunggangan' US |
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Originally posted by juwaini at 25-6-2006 10:19 PM
ah, another statement from people who is buta sejarah...
most (if not all..) of theory in mathematics began at islamic and hindus world..
don't u know that? :hmm:
what mathematic theory come out quran? buta sejarah konon.. ha ha
Ar-Razi.. the freethinker from persia had said this
As for the Koran, it is but an assorted mixture of "absurd and inconsistent fables," which has ridiculously been judged inimitable, when, in fact, its language, style, and its much vaunted "eloquence" are far from being faultless. Custom, tradition, and intellectual laziness lead men to follow their religious leaders blindly. Religions have been the sole cause of the bloody wars that have ravaged mankind. Religions have also been resolutely hostile to philosophical speculation and to scientific research. The so-called holy scriptures are worthless and have done more harm than good, whereas the "writings of the ancients like Plato, Aristotle, Euclid, and Hippocrates have rendered much greater service to humanity."
http://www.secularislam.org/skeptics/arrazi.htm
Real muslim however think quran have everything in it.. like Al- Ghazali bitterly denounced Aristotle, Socrates and other Greek writers as non-believers and labelled those who employed their methods and ideas as corrupters of the Islamic faith.. and from then on it did not take long for the Golden Age of islam or rather golden Age of Persia to perished.
The 2nd caliph Umar who obviously thought Quran have all the answers, had caused the destruction/loss of huge knowledge in the form of books when he ordered the burning of the books in Alexandria Library when Amr conqured it in 640AD
The Moslems invaded Egypt during the seventh century as their fanaticism carried them on conquests that would take form an empire stretching from Spain to India. There was not much of a struggle in Egypt and the locals found the rule of the Caliph to be more tolerant than that of the Byzantines before them. However, when a Christian called John informed the local Arab general that there existed in Alexandria a great Library preserving all the knowledge in the world he was perturbed. Eventually he sent word to Mecca where Caliph Omar ordered that all the books in the library should be destroyed because, as he said "they will either contradict the Koran, in which case they are heresy, or they will agree with it, so they are superfluous." Therefore, the books and scrolls were taken out of the library and distributed as fuel to the many bathhouses of the city. So enormous was the volume of literature that it took six months for it all to be burnt to ashes heating the saunas of the conquerors.
http://www.bede.org.uk/library.htm#omar
Originally posted by juwaini at 25-6-2006 10:19 PM
so an atheis doesn't have moral guide?
Originally posted by juwaini at 25-6-2006 10:19 PM
show me the poison of islam...
this is my challenge..
Lying for islam is one.
Murdering for islam is another.
Discrimination of non-muslim is another..
Barbaric hudud law is another.
poison poison every where.. and you are so blind to see.
[ Last edited by FaithHealer3 at 26-6-2006 06:28 AM ] |
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Originally posted by juwaini at 26-6-2006 01:54 AM
nope, they don't even follow the same path of islam...
osama ben laden used to be 'kuda tunggangan' US
Yes they are real muslims. They try the best to follower the 7th century jihad.. kidnapping, terror attacks, cutting heads etc
Abu Bakar Bashir, Noordin Top, Amrosi, Azahari.. are the real muslims in asia. Pas tries to be real muslims but situation does not allow them to be.
Most Malaysian muslims are not real muslims but reformed type of muslims. They duped into thinking that the islamic terrorist are not muslims.
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Originally posted by FaithHealer3 at 26-6-2006 03:25 AM
Yes they are real muslims. They try the best to follower the 7th century jihad.. kidnapping, terror attacks, cutting heads etc
Abu Bakar Bashir, Noordin Top, Amrosi, Azahari.. are the real muslims in asia. Pas tries to be real muslims but situation does not allow them to be.
Most Malaysian muslims are not real muslims but reformed type of muslims. They duped into thinking that the islamic terrorist are not muslims.
i don't think there's a way to stop a paranoid from doing so.. |
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Originally posted by FaithHealer3 at 26-6-2006 03:17 AM
thats easy..
Lying for islam is one.
Murdering for islam is another.
Discrimination of non-muslim is another..
Barbaric hudud law is another.
poison poison every where.. and you are so blind to see.
lying? what lie? a simplistic generalization without enough proof...
murdering? there's a different between murdering and self defend....
discrimination? what discrimination? another low level accusation...
barbaric hudud law? u must be kidding right? i don't even think that u know what hudud is all about....
summary : a generalization made without enough evidence... |
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Originally posted by FaithHealer3 at 26-6-2006 03:17 AM
LOL..
what mathematic theory come out quran? buta sejarah konon.. ha ha
the theory maybe is not in al-Qur'an, but the encouragement to find any theories are there...
if Qur'an need to put everything under the sun in it, can u imagine how thick it need to be?
try using simple logic, that's not too hard to do
[ Last edited by juwaini at 26-6-2006 07:49 AM ] |
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Originally posted by FaithHealer3 at 26-6-2006 03:25 AM
Yes they are real muslims. They try the best to follower the 7th century jihad.. kidnapping, terror attacks, cutting heads etc
Abu Bakar Bashir, Noordin Top, Amrosi, Azahari.. are the real ...
what's ur criterion to categorize them as real muslim?
don't just make easy assumption without enough knowledge about islam... |
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Originally posted by FaithHealer3 at 26-6-2006 03:25 AM
Yes they are real muslims. They try the best to follower the 7th century jihad.. kidnapping, terror attacks, cutting heads etc
Abu Bakar Bashir, Noordin Top, Amrosi, Azahari.. are the real ...
Oh...sorry to say that you are too blind to see the fruits of Islam. You are not making overall comment about Islam. Kiddnapping, terror attacks, cutting heads...have seen Malaysia's good muslims did it before?.Have you?...I don't think so.
What if I say George W Bush is an intruder, and then I say you also an intruder because you and George W Bush is under one religion..what would you feel...
As an atheist, you should shut up, because you have no faith..or iman. When you have no faith, you cannot accept Al-Quran.When you cannot accept Al-Quran, you cannot accept the prophets and the Books. When you have no iman, you only see poisons in Islam.
Sometimes I wonder, what are you searching for in your life?... |
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Post time 25-6-2006 01:48 PM
Author
