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Believe in Jesus Christ,.. you dont need to be a christian.(Stay as Moslem)
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Jesus
Who Do You Say That He Is?
Nearly 2,000 years ago, Jesus asked the question, "What do you think of Christ? Whose Son is He?" (Matthew 22:42). A person's answer to that question can determine his or her eternal destiny.
Jesus |
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Trinity
The Bible and the Trinity
The Bible clearly teaches that there is only one God (Deuteronomy 6:4; Isaiah 43:11; 44:6; Mark 12:29; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Ephesians 4:6; 1 Timothy 2:5). At the same time, the Bible plainly indicates a plurality within God's nature, consisting of three eternal and coequal persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, each the same in basic nature, but distinct in existence.
Although the word Trinity does not appear in the Bible, the doctrine of the Trinity is a factual conclusion, reached by comparing and combining relevant scriptural truths. "We are setting these truths forth in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the [Holy] Spirit, combining and interpreting spiritual truths with spiritual language [to those who possess the Holy Spirit]" (1 Corinthians 2:13 AMPLIFIED).
One of the Bible抯 Great Mysteries
The Trinity is one of the great mysteries of the Bible that cannot be fathomed by the finite mind. If God were small enough to figure out, He wouldn't be big enough to worship. The Bible tells us that God's thoughts are not our thoughts, nor are His ways our ways (Isaiah 55:8 |
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Originally posted by Einard at 31-8-2006 12:31 PM
Jesus
Who Do You Say That He Is?
Nearly 2,000 years ago, Jesus asked the question, "What do you think of Christ? Whose Son is He?" (Matthew 22:42). A person's answer to that questio ...
I see, so believing in a Christ concept means that one is not really a "Christ"ian. The same as following the ideology and governmental policies of Marx and Lennon does not mean you are a communist just a mal informed capitalist.
Einard: A person's answer to that question can determine his or her eternal destiny.
Tommy : Well not according to what the bible actually says. If you look below that the verses you reference in your initial statement.... you will see that first of all it is Jesus asking the Pharisees who do they think CHRIST is... whose son is HE? He is not asking them who do they think that HE is... as He does in asking the disciples.
Matt 22: 41-45: While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, [The Son] of David. He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool? If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?
Matt 16:13-20: When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? And they said, Some [say that thou art] John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.
Tommy : In the verses above showing where Jesus asks his disciples... (men and women who had left all they had...forsaken family, homes, etc and who had been walking and talking with Jesus ), first who do other men say that He is... and they respond. Then He asks them... and Peter responds. Jesus then states that flesh and blood had not taught Peter this, but God, because Jesus didn't teach them and tell them he was the Christ... the evidence of what they seen him doing and saying is what had revealed that to them. HOWEVER, the point here is two part!
First, many people today think that there are enough verses in the words of Paul that to "just believe" or to "believe in" or to "confess with their mouth, and believe in their heart" or as Einard says, just answer the question with the right answer will secure ones eternal destiny in Christianity, however the bible does not support that well "intentioned" concept. There is no where that a simply a few words from the bible get someone's "eternity" secured. Paul talks about "salvation not being by works lest any man should boast" however that is Paul's statement regarding salvation.
Secondly, Jesus makes it clear as does the bible that all those that "believe in " Jesus, not the CHRIST but Jesus came to him first to follow him... leaving all they had. That was their "act" of "faith" or "belief" in him... that started the process of discipline to get them broken free from the religious mandates of Judiasm to show them the "way" to eternal life.... (knowing the one true God, and Jesus Christ whom He sent). According to the bible... the Christ is revealed by God, and no one knows the Son but the Father. So clearly Jesus is shown asking HIS disciples... "who others said he was"...and they said many things.. then He asks them.. "who do YOU say that I am"... and to which Peter responds... and Jesus knows by the response that Peter gave that flesh and blood had not taught him this...that God had revealed it to them... and then proceeds to tell the disciples not to tell anyone that He was Jesus the Christ...(anointed of God).
So even though Einard you say that the simple answer of a person's words regarding this can determine their eternal destiny... the bible states otherwise. Anyone can say that Jesus is the Christ. Anyone can rattle off some rehearsed or repetitively heard words, or even give the right answer when told what it should be to make others believe you believe... or that you know... however, it is clearly shown in the bible that people that "believed" or had "faith" were those producing "fruit" or doing the "works" as evidence of their "belief".
The problem with Christianity has been IMO that when Paul started preaching to the Gentiles... he was not a disciple of Jesus Christ. He had not yet attained that and was in the transition but Paul didn't teach the commandments of Jesus Christ, so Paul didn't tell people that if they were truly called of God in Christ, that they would first come ... forsaking all and let the words of Jesus Christ and his teachings discipline them... and then they would know HIM (Jesus) taught of God, not through the teachings of religion. The Jews knew through their religion that the Messiah was to be the Son of David, or through the lineage of David... that's what they knew from the law... and that's why Jesus asked them that question. Just as we can ask a Christian today who is the Christ and get a consistent answer (for the most part) because that's what they have come to know from the bible and the religion of Christianity... however... those that the bible records as having "eternal life"... (knowing the one true God, and Jesus Christ whom he sent) are not taught that by a book of religion but comes to that as the disciples of Jesus did... in breaking free from their religion and looking to the evidence... to the "fruits" and not taking the "word" of the mouth of anyone on the matter! Jesus stated it clearly.. "if I do not do the works of my Father, believe me not". So Jesus himself was not asking anyone to simply believe what he SAID... he told them to look for the evidence in the works. Christianity tells us to take the word of a man...without the evidence. Assures us if we just claim with our mouth and believe in our heart then it's done... and yet the bible, the Christ who God is supposed to have sent to show the WAY never says to take the words alone of anyone. Words are always questionable when it comes to what one "believes" ... but what a person does and lives will "speak" for him as it did in the bible as well.
I can say that I believe I'm doctor, I can say that I believe in medicine... but it will always be in question until I can produce the evidence of being disciplined in medicine, having bore fruit of that discipline, and are doing the "works" of a doctor... then I don't have to tell anyone that I'm a doctor... they will see the "works" that I do and know that I am. To me it's just that simple and seems to be the example found in the bible... and even though Christianity still tells people to make professions with their mouth... and that shows they are "Christian"... Jesus differs in His teachings on the matter and the lives of his disciples show clearly that it was far more than just saying a few choice words from their mouths....
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Yes, they do, sherlyn, you right! they have too. Because He will come again on judgement day! While Allah and Muhammad sit in heaven. We will never know Allah, Jesus will tell because He said once you see me, you already seen God. Believe in Jesus!.. yes believe in Him. |
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KENNKID This user has been deleted
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Yes, in fact I received an email today pertaining to this silly Christian forgery. Attached were the very booklets that Sherlyn posted here. The following were the exact words of the email from a Muslim brother:
Not Muhammad, but Jesus Name was printed !!!!!!
Be careful with this book!!!!!! This thing has been widespread to
the whole world.
We must fight this massacre which was created by Christian!!!
* DO NOT let them to convert many more MUSLIM to CHRISTIAN,
Na'udzubillahimindzalik...
* DO NOT JUST KEEP this mail in your mailbox. FORWARD TO ALL OUR MUSLIMS..
The things they do to lead muslims astray is unbelievable. May Allah
protect us all. Let all your relatives/friends know that this book
do exist and a copy of it was already sent to MUIS for action.
But i don't I think we need to be afraid, because we know that it is not going to change facts
[ Last edited by KENNKID at 1-9-2006 04:49 PM ] |
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KENNKID This user has been deleted
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Originally posted by Einard at 1-9-2006 12:39 PM
Yes, they do, sherlyn, you right! they have too. Because He will come again on judgement day! While Allah and Muhammad sit in heaven. We will never know Allah, Jesus will tell because He said once ...
Jesus will come and state that he is a Muslim, Allah is his God and the Muhammad is God's messenger & last prophet and that he (Jesus) is also a messenger and a prophet, but not the final. He will bear witness thus: "I Isa, bear witness that there is no God except Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's messenger"
:pray: http://www.islam.tc/prophecies/jesus.html
[ Last edited by KENNKID at 1-9-2006 05:01 PM ] |
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Trinity Nonsense
Originally posted by Einard at 31-8-2006 12:32 PM
The Bible and the Trinity
The Bible clearly teaches that there is only one God (Deuteronomy 6:4; Isaiah 43:11; 44:6; Mark 12:29; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Ephesians 4:6; 1 Timothy 2:5). At the same ti ...
Einard....if you are going to give scripture, just do not give the verse, give the entire scripture. Its a pain to look it up. Every single one of your verses is taken out of context, as usual.
Pick one and we can go from there.
The fantasy that Jesus is/was god is baseless. To believe that is to
ignore a number of passages in the scriptures that say the opposite:
1)God cannot be tempted; the idea is absurd. Yet Jesus was, Matt. 4:1
2) God would not need to pray. Yet Jesus not only prays privately,
but fails to get what he wanted, Matt 26:39,42,44.
3) A single unified God cannot forsake itself. Yet Jesus is forsaken,
Matt. 27:46. If someone wants to argue that he is quoting Psalm 22,
fine, that Pslam also has the character it is about say that he is
less than a man, a mere worm. Would God refer to himself as a worm?
4) God is the source not the receiver of authority. Jesus said he
received authority, Matt. 28:14.
5) Jesus talks about God, Mark 3:35
6) Jesus said only God was good, Luke 18, 19
7) No one has ever seen God, but many saw Jesus, John 1:18
8) Jesus said the Father was greater than him; contrary to the
trinity doctrine which clearly teaches that all members of the God-
Head are coeternal and coequal. John 14:28
9) Jesus admits he has a God, John 20:17
10 Paul did not believe in the trinity because he said he served the
same God as his Jewish ancestors (and they did not believe in a God
the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) Acts 24:14
11) Paul states Jesus is between God and humans, therefore Jesus is
not God, I Cor. 3:23
12) Paul says the Father is God, and Jesus is a seperate being, I
Cor. 8:5-6
13) Paul says Jesus has a God, II Cor 11:31
14) Paul again states that Jesus is the MEDIATOR between God and
humans, I Tim. 2:5-7
15) John says that no one has ever seen God if Jesus was God this
would make no sense, I John 4:12
Taking certain passages out of context created the trinity doctrine.
One can see from John's writing that Jesus is distinct from God, that
Jesus has a God, and that no one ever saw God. The verses taken out
of context and even mistranslated are John 1:1, can be more
accurately translated, in context, with this ending: and the Word was
God's. That translation places everything that follows into context
compared to what a mistranslation said. IMO, the early Christians
were so obsessed with the mystery religions that Jesus was invented
to go along with it. John 1:18 is mistranslated to make it appear
that God begot God. If that is true, then Jesus was not coeternal and
the whole trinity doctrine comes crashing down. John 8:58 is the most
common verse taken out of context. In John, Jesus merely says: "I
Am", but when one goes back to check what is actually written in
Exodus, one gets far more words: Eheyeh asher eheyeh, translated it
is I will be who I will be, or I Am that I Am. Jesus did not say in
John, "I Am that I Am". Therefore the apologetic is based on pulling
a half sentence out of Exodus. John 10:30 only means that Jesus and
God were in agreement, this makes sense if he was doing the will of
another and giving the message of another -- something the New
Testament asserts. One need only look at John 10:30 in light of John
17:20-23 -- are we supposed to believe that God now includes the
apostles! Col. 2:9 is made clear with Col 1:15-16; some people say I
am the image of my father -- but that does not make me my father.
The trinity doctrine grew out of Asia, or more accurately the Roman
province by that name. In II Tim 1:15 Paul complains that "all those
in Asia turned away from me" and in Romans 1:21 that these heretics
invented foolish notions about God. The trinity easily is one of
those foolish notions.
There simply is no trinity and to believe in one, one must ignore at
least 15, in context, quotes from new testament to the contrary.
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Originally posted by KENNKID at 1-9-2006 04:52 PM
Jesus will come and state that he is a Muslim, Allah is his God and the Muhammad is God's messenger & last prophet and that he (Jesus) is also a messenger and a prophet, but not the final. ...
Well, that was Muhammad said, not Jesus.. Those people that close to Jesus withness it.. and after 1000+/- years later "Allah" realized that "it" forgotten to tell the people of the book and ask Muhammad to tell them..
BTW what are you affraid of? He is not Allah right? The hell what Hes going to say. The only thing that we have something in common.. He will come on Judgement day and our argument today will solve. |
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Originally posted by tommy_mylex at 1-9-2006 07:42 PM
Trinity Nonsense
Einard....if you are going to give scripture, just do not give the verse, give the entire scripture. Its a pain to look it up. Every single one of your verses is taken out o ...
Well, I myself cannot explain it as logical as u want.. y? because my God is Human... and yet divine. He was refered as Emmanuel which means God with us.. Human.. human.. Your concept of God is "Allah". Not Human.. nothing can be compared to.. so? is illogical to understand Jesus through your perspectives.. Your God is ALLAH... My God is Not ALLAH.. He is Jesus.. Human... walking.. talking.. eating.. feeling lonely.. cold.. cry... wear clothes just like HUMAN. And as Human He prays to the Father in heaven as He refers to.. If He came to earth and say.. Hey I am GOD!.. no one will believe also right? He show what God is.. merciful, powerful, forgive sins, give life to death people and so on which only God can do, according to those people in that era.
Get this one.. He died on the cross because of His radical teaching.. oh yeah.. implying that He is God. (Not ALLAH.. what is it anyway). If He teaches the same... why do you think those people of the book want to kill him?
Your concept of God is =="ALLAH".. dont compare its totally different. Allah never show "it" mercy to Human. |
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Originally posted by Einard at 1-9-2006 09:14 PM
He will come on Judgement day and our argument today will solve
i would like to say the same thing...but with different meaning of "He"..
and here just another reminder to all of us...ok...no offend ok...
surah yasin ayat 52;
Mereka berkata: " Aduh celakalah kami !
Siapakah yang membangkitkan kami dari tempat-tidur kami (kubur)?"
Inilah yang dijanjikan(Tuhan)Yang Maha Pemurah dan benarlah Rasul-rasul(Nya)
dan surah An Naba' ayat terakhir:
Sesungguhnya Kami telah memperingatkan kepadamu (hai orang kafir) siksa yang dekat,
pada hari manusia melihat apa yang telah diperbuat oleh kedua tangannya;
dan orang kafir berkata;
" ALANGKAH BAIKNYA SEKIRANYA AKU DAHULU ADALAH TANAH "............
sadakallahul 'aziiiiim........... |
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Originally posted by Einard at 1-9-2006 09:31 PM
Well, I myself cannot explain it as logical as u want.. y? because my God is Human... and yet divine. He was refered as Emmanuel which means God with us.. Human.. human.. Your concept of God ...
Not only do you have to ignore scriptures that speak to the contrary, what is the real reason that Christianity has for insisting that Jesus is God? As an ex Christian, I was taught that it was the "tenant" of Christianity, that if you didn't believe that Jesus was God then you were not a Christian but why did that really matter? Some would say that with Jesus being God that he was the only one that could be here in the flesh and still not sin, but the bible speaks contrary to that as well!
Then there was the "virgin birth" that made Jesus God, but how could that be with a flesh mother, and a spirit Father, when Adam had neither... and wasn't God! Then there is the idea that to worship Jesus without him being "God" is to have another god before God! So Jesus was made "God" so that people could worship him without having made unto themselves another "god"! There are so many different possibilities.... but the "reason" still seems very unclear!! Then of course to go further and have a "three in one" God.... what difference does that make in the first place? What would be the purpose or reason for having a "three in one God' to begin with???
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I see a common tactic by Tommy of creating strawman attacks on Christianity.
He likes to make claims against Christianity that don't exist.
Originally posted by tommy_mylex at 2-9-2006 02:25 AM
Some would say that with Jesus being God that he was the only one that could be here in the flesh and still not sin, but the bible speaks contrary to that as well!
Did the Bible say that Jesus sinned? Where? Please show us.
Then there was the "virgin birth" that made Jesus God, but how could that be with a flesh mother, and a spirit Father, when Adam had neither... and wasn't God! Then there is the idea that to worship Jesus without him being "God" is to have another god before God! So Jesus was made "God" so that people could worship him without having made unto themselves another "god"! There are so many different possibilities.... but the "reason" still seems very unclear!!
Christian doctrine never taught that Jesus is God just because of the virgin birth. what are you talking abt Tommy?
Then of course to go further and have a "three in one" God.... what difference does that make in the first place? What would be the purpose or reason for having a "three in one God' to begin with???
God wasn't created so there is no why.
He just exist as He is, regardless of what you think. You don't create God and God is not subjected to their thoughts. |
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Believe the one on Judgement Day.
Originally posted by tommy_mylex at 2-9-2006 02:25 AM
Not only do you have to ignore scriptures that speak to the contrary, what is the real reason that Christianity has for insisting that Jesus is God? As an ex Christian, I was taught that it ...
Well, thats really clear that you dont understand christian, ex-christian? well, I have no comment but you got it wrong.. why 3 and not 1? Christian dont create "God".. ask Jesus. The Bible is a story about God and the stroy goes that way.. well, if Jesus came today, you'll crucify him also because of your concept of God. But believed that He will come, not Muhammad. He said that He who sent Him was "Father" whos in heaven, I dont recall Jesus said "it" name was "Allah". For me, its better to believed the one whos going to come on judgement day. He will jugde us, as He said, He will prepare the heaven for us.
I found that you have missed lots of important points of being a christian, alot of people too, not only you. True christian would have at least the basic things.. and you dont have it, I dont blame you.. but those people who have shown you Jesus already done their part.. spreading the Good News. Its up to you to accept or not.. If you dont, well its your business with God, not with the christians.
Jesus said, If you believed in Him, believed also in me. Its just like saying, its not enough for us to believe the one in "heaven" because the Father was so remote, unreachable. Jesus in the other hand was so near, and christian simply means christ in me. Jesus is more than only a saviour, He fullfilled the whole Bible, and after Him, there'll be no other prophets, why? everything already been fullfilled by Jesus. If there's another prophet then Hes work here on earth was worthless, He willnot be the saviour. He would have been Jesus, the prophet.. but Amin, He was known as Jesus "Christ".
Muhammad also ask all of us to believe in Isa Almasih?, who is he? he will come again on judgement day? sounds like similar story, but then why not believed in Isa? learn about the person.. who is he?, what were his teaching... if similar to Muhammad, then why is he coming back on judgement day? to tell all of us that he already converted to Islam? just that? how significant is that issue to Allah until, Isa been given the previlage instead of Muhammad.
Allah or God willnot coming on judgement day... These two persons will come, Jesus christ and Isa Almasih. |
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I was a Christian when first realized that the doctrine of the Trinity could not be possible if the God that I was to know was Almighty! For me it meant that this God had to surpass all other gods, and the totality of them all to be the "Almighty". So I started doing some research into the "trinity" doctrine and found as with other things, it originated with pagan Constantine, and as you stated, it wasn't until centuries after even Christ that such was mentioned. I still was puzzled as to why Constantine would have first introduced the concept and what benefit would it be to continue the concept and indoctrinate countless millions with this now!
What negative affect would it have on anyone's faith if Jesus was not God, and there is no "trinity"? Would there be any reason to defend the "Jesus as God" or the "Trinity" at all to anyone including ones self? If there is no reason for Jesus to be God, and surely no reason to have the Trinity doctrine, then wonder why it is that now even after all this time, there is still such effort to do so? I remember, when after reading John 3:16 and knowing it by heart that it occurred to me one day when reading it once again, that "without God" there wouldn't have been Jesus to begin with!
So I realized at that moment the focus that I had put on Jesus and which Christianity had taught me to put on Jesus, was ridiculous... that even though he was the "focal" character of the bible, that who He was, and what He said, wasn't as important as who had "sent him"! Did that cause any negative impact on my faith?? No.. it just, as you mentioned earlier, reduced those things which I thought I had to defend to myself and to others, by yet another key element! I still am not sure what it was that even brought me to the point or brings others to the point in Christianity of having to have the "Jesus as God" or the "Trinity" doctrine at all! As I have read other works, and done more and more research, I've found that I do not have to believe a person is God, or they are multiple personalities, or they are more than simply a part of humanity with me, to recognize their works and their writings as having some significance to be considered!
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Well, you dont need for Jesus to tell you who is the "Almighty"? right, and good, tell us who is it? I want to know more... how can we know this "Almighty" more? since you have found it. Dont tell me about moon, stars and earth, the almighty creation.. scientists can explain that. Dont tell me about those verses in Quran, Bible.. it was written by human. Have you heard Almighty voice? what actually we are here for? not killing the infidels thats for sure.
[ Last edited by Einard at 2-9-2006 12:51 PM ] |
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Well, you cant.. I know, no one knows... thats for sure, one one knows.. thats y Jesus had to come. We learn alot about God from Jesus. |
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Einard : Well, thats really clear that you don? understand christian, ?
Tommy: The point is that I do. It is only a Christian that would say that someone else doesn't understand "christian"!
Einard: well, I have no comment but you got it wrong.. why 3 and not 1?
Tommy: Now, that's really cute.. you have no comment but I got it wrong! LOL! What is ONE GOD not enough? Why do you have to make ONE GOD be in three persons?
Einard: Christian don? create "God".. ask Jesus. The Bible is a story about God and the story goes that way.. well, if Jesus came today, you'll crucify him also because of your concept of God. But believed that He will come, not .He said that He who sent Him was "Father" whose in heaven, I don? recall For me, its better to believed the one who? going to come on judgment day. He will judge us, as He said, He will prepare the heaven for us.
Tommy: Now that's a real cute one, Christians are the ones that have created the Trinity concept. The bible being a story, now you might have something there... but the point is that if there is ONE GOD.. and the bible as you say speaks to that... then why is one God not enough? Why do you have to make Jesus God also? Now, I wouldn't crucify Jesus... why would I? Your comments makes no sense at all that because of my concept of God I'd crucify Jesus... what sense does that make? I am not in the habit of crucifying people to begin with... and secondly wouldn't do it because of some concept I had about God to begin with. Yes Jesus said that God sent him, and it was the Father who was in heaven... so totally two different people. You can believe whatever you want. If it makes it better for you to believe in a God that is going to come on some judgment day to judge you and prepare and who sent Jesus here to die a horrible death to make a place for you in heaven, and you can live with that... that's fine with me. Just don't expect the rest of us to make Jesus God, and to believe in some trinity so that we'll have a place in heaven or await the day to see if our entire lives that we've lived is going to be acceptable enough in the end of it to make it to heaven where Jesus said he was going to prepare a place for! Seems Jesus should have waited to see if anyone is going to make it first... before preparing all those places... wouldn't you think?
Einard: I found that you have missed lots of important points of being a christian, alot of people too, not only you. True christian would have at least the basic things.. and you don? have it, I don? blame you.. but those people who have shown you Jesus already done their part.. spreading the Good News. Its up to you to accept or not.. If you don?, well its your business with God, not with the christians.
Tommy: Well thank you for sharing your opinion of me, but I didn't miss no important parts of being a christian, the basic things of being a Christian is simply not taught in Christianity and that's what I found out. People can't show you Jesus that's what the bible says and Jesus even goes as far as to tell his disciples not to tell anyone that He is Jesus the Christ, because God will be the one to reveal him to those that God chooses to... and yet Christians are always trying to argue and fight over Jesus and who he was.... Guess they are the ones that have missed out on some of the basic things.. hum? There is also no place in the bible where it says that a person has to accept Jesus either. So that's again just the stuff that Christianity teaches that is not found in the bible at all. It's like the "sinner's prayer"... it's not in the bible either... but you got a zillion Christians telling people that's a basic thing also.. now don't you. The point is you do have right is that it's my business... and no one else's... but then you have told me already that I don't know the basics of being a Christian, that I don't understand and all of that.. so it seems that you're the one that really don't believe any of this is really between me and God now do you? If you did.. you would surely not have told me all these things now would you??
Einard: Jesus said, If you believed in Him, believed also in me. Its just like saying, its not enough for us to believe the one in "heaven" because the Father was so remote, unreachable. Jesus in the other hand was so near, and christian simply means christ in me. Jesus is more than only a saviour, He fulfilled the whole Bible, and after Him, there'll be no other prophets, why? everything already been fulfilled by Jesus. If there's another prophet then Hes work here on earth was worthless, He will not be the saviour. He would have been Jesus, the prophet.. but Amin, He was known as Jesus "Christ".
Tommy: Yes, I have heard all these repetitive words time and time again but what I find is that Jesus said that he kept the commandments of HIS FATHER and that was the reason that the Father abides in him.. and yet you say that Christian means Christ in me... which would mean that if Christ is abiding in you then that would mean that you keep the commandments of Jesus Christ... so tell me do you do that? Are you telling me that I don't know what a Christian is and all these things that you've said and yet are you believing enough in Jesus as the Son of God to follow what He commanded that His followers must do? Cause the bible says that "if a man says that he knows him and keeps not his commandments, he is a liar and the truth is not in him"! Now you wouldn't want me to take your word on such matters over that of Jesus would you? He said to "know them by their fruits"!
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The problem is that muslims claim that the characteristics of Allah is infinite and that man can only understand 99 "names" of him.
In other words, muslims would not know Allah even if Allah stood right in front of them.
By mystifying Allah/God, muslims only create a giant divide between God and man. An abyss so wide and deep that no muslim will ever understand or know who God is. |
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Post time 31-8-2006 12:31 PM
变色卡
Author
Post time 1-9-2006 09:35 PM
