Concept Of Reincarnation - Let's Debate :)

Sephiroth

by Debmey   

Seems like once you are stuck as a dog, you are then likely to stay as a dog under such a system because dogs have no morals and will be instinct do evils.
what about earthworms? Can an earthworm do evils in the sight of God?   

First of all, can you PLEASE came OUT of the notion that EVERYTHING on this World is Evil? Christians have this foul notion that Everything on this World is Evil and ONLY way out is by Jesus. This kind of short-sighted idiocy is the reason why you do not see past your foolish selves. ;)

what about an amoeba or bacteria?  

Here's a biological lesson for you - during Cambrian Explosion, the Ameoba-like lifeforms existed back then have consumed each other and live in symbosis relationship to this day - IN YOUR FREAKING BODY. So, obviously, they too will evolve upward, won't they?

Also, go and read on the Internet on Quantum Consciousness. ff:


by sentaja   

there is no such thing as reincarnation.

and someone said about it as the only logical explanation...

prove to me that my cat is actually hitler being punished ? (while eating whiskas everyday)
prove to me that my cat is aware that it is actually hitler ? (while scratching its nails on my chair)

prove to me either seph*** or B50 is actually an ape or a baboon previously. and i really dont know
which part of being an ape and a baboon that merits them to become such accomplished religion
debater in CARI!  

Fine ... no reincarnation.

EXPLAIN TO ME about God. PROOF to me about God. PROOF to me that Muslims who bangs their head on the floor five times a day are not wasting their time praying to something that doesn't exist.

Sephiroth

by Debmey   

Seems like once you are stuck as a dog, you are then likely to stay as a dog under such a system because dogs have no morals and will be instinct do evils.
what about earthworms? Can an earthworm do evils in the sight of God?   

First of all, can you PLEASE came OUT of the notion that EVERYTHING on this World is Evil? Christians have this foul notion that Everything on this World is Evil and ONLY way out is by Jesus. This kind of short-sighted idiocy is the reason why you do not see past your foolish selves. ;)

what about an amoeba or bacteria?  

Here's a biological lesson for you - during Cambrian Explosion, the Ameoba-like lifeforms existed back then have consumed each other and live in symbosis relationship to this day - IN YOUR FREAKING BODY. So, obviously, they too will evolve upward, won't they?

Also, go and read on the Internet on Quantum Consciousness. ff:


by sentaja   

there is no such thing as reincarnation.

and someone said about it as the only logical explanation...

prove to me that my cat is actually hitler being punished ? (while eating whiskas everyday)
prove to me that my cat is aware that it is actually hitler ? (while scratching its nails on my chair)

prove to me either seph*** or B50 is actually an ape or a baboon previously. and i really dont know
which part of being an ape and a baboon that merits them to become such accomplished religion
debater in CARI!  

Fine ... no reincarnation.

EXPLAIN TO ME about God. PROOF to me about God. PROOF to me that Muslims who bangs their head on the floor five times a day are not wasting their time praying to something that doesn't exist.

Debmey

So how does a dog or earthworm get itself promoted to humans under this system of reincarnation? Are humans supposed to be of a higher order of being?

I actually prefer to be a bird if reincaranation is true.

peace

by Sephiroth

Fine ... no reincarnation.


to moderators,

Please close this topic as we both have come to a conclusion as per above remark.

Sephiroth

by Debmey   

So how does a dog or earthworm get itself promoted to humans under this system of reincarnation? Are humans supposed to be of a higher order of being?

I actually prefer to be a bird if reincaranation is true.

What you think Reincarnation is? A Train Schedule? O_o
No one knows how long it will take or which road it will take, but you can determine where you want to go by doing good deeds now and here.

Humans not higher being or lower beings - there is no higher or lower status. Like I said before, humans are just one (maybe first on this World) who could use all of its 6 senses which other lifeforms before him could not. That is why is it a great honor to be Humans - because Humans can progress to much higher state than they do now by living a proper life (as stated both in Buddhism and Hindusm).

As for you wanting to be a bird ... Freedom is in the Mind, not in your body. If you free your Mind from social cage, you are a bird even when you have a Human form. :love:


by sentaja   

Please close this topic as we both have come to a conclusion as per above remark.  

Stupid pig ... READ my question below properly next time. Don't act smart because Muslims are not capable of being Smart. :agr:


EXPLAIN TO ME about God. PROOF to me about God. PROOF to me that Muslims who bangs their head on the floor five times a day are not wasting their time praying to something that doesn't exist.

ussopp

how is a soul can learn a lesson if they forget their past lifetime... as far as i know, only some people said that they remember teir past,
furthermore they cant  remember properly or it may be their imagination...

so are they just born as dog to live as a dog or to they should take a lesson from their past life.....
if they should take a lesson, the should have better memory to remember...
if not then recarnation concept is useless...

alhamdulillah,

a not-capable-to-smart muslim can won an unfathomable reincarnation argument.
i am truly content in having myself born as a human, live a normal human live and die as a human.

while you sir ! believed that you were once (even you dont know for sure) an ape, or a dog or a komodo dragon
or maybe a bushmen ancestor or even Hitler himself!

Sephiroth

by ussopp   

how is a soul can learn a lesson if they forget their past lifetime... as far as i know, only some people said that they remember teir past, furthermore they cant  remember properly or it may be their imagination...

so are they just born as dog to live as a dog or to they should take a lesson from their past life.....
if they should take a lesson, the should have better memory to remember...
if not then recarnation concept is useless...  

This is called stupidity.

Reincarnation is not about remembering the past ... it is about living life for the future in hope that we do enough to become a higher being in the next life.

You want to remember past for what?

i212

by Sepiroth
Reincarnation is not about remembering the past ... it is about living life for the future in hope that we do enough to become a higher being in the next life.

So... if the concept is true... I think we dont have any low-level people already since human being have live thousand or million years.

And... how about people that said that they know their past. How they can know about it?

i212

by Sepiroth
Reincarnation is not about remembering the past ... it is about living life for the future in hope that we do enough to become a higher being in the next life.

So... if the concept is true... I think we dont have any low-level people already since human being have live thousand or million years.

And... how about people that said that they know their past. How they can know about it?

Sephiroth

by i212   

So... if the concept is true... I think we dont have any low-level people already since human being have live thousand or million years.

Define low level people please. :stp:

Biologically, Human Being - Homo Sapiens are just 1.4 million years old, YET we have other Homos (not Gays) like Cro Magnon, Neanthals etc which can be traced back to nearly 5 million years. There is no direct connection between this sub-species but when one species comes to existence and in apex of its existence, earlier species will vanish, as if the older species have no use for existence any more.

In such context, I could say you have seen evolution of Human race from pervious existence in more animalistic nature to current advance nature. Human beings ARE the best Nature have to offer to this point in existence (in history of the Planet) and that is possible ONLY because the Soul forces the Body to evolve forward to a higher stage. :hmm:

And... how about people that said that they know their past. How they can know about it?

Do you have little children? Observe children.

Without being told what to do, they could learn to climb trees, make slings, bows and arrows, learn to play hide and seek (hunting others) and some even learn about medicinal plants even when they are as young as 5 years old.

Why do you think this skills comes from? For one thing, they comes from the genetic matrix within us due to the long line of hunting and others skills we have in the past - therefore, WE DO REMEMBER our former self.

And some people in advance stage will have undying interest in Science, Music, Sports (or in my case, Sword-Play and Martial Arts) and shows a great progress in this field which others could not achieve in such young age. Beethoven is one example. OIn this example, who we were in the past, lives on as skills and interest in us at present.

barney50

1. responded by ussopp:how is a soul can learn a lesson if they forget their past lifetime... as far as i know, only some people said that they remember teir past,
   
2. furthermore they cant  remember properly or it may be their imagination...
   
3. 
   
4. so are they just born as dog to live as a dog or to they should take a lesson from their past life.....
   
5. if they should take a lesson, the should have better memory to remember...
   
6. if not then recarnation concept is useless...

Copy the Code

The Hindu concept of reincarnation is based upon the logical notion that life on earth did not emerge suddenly, but evolved gradually, involving great epoch of time and a vast multitude of beings. During this process the static and inert consciousness of matter yielded place to the dynamic movement of life and consciousness. The animal tendencies gave way to human reason and humane thoughts. Extending the same logic we may further say that in future, from this part animal, part human and part divine being, there would emerge a spiritual man of divine consciousness people such as Sri Aurobindo, Sawmi Ramalinga and Ramakrishna with supra mental consciousness. When you talk about dog it is only a temprory state of living as dogs have maximun life span of only 15 years and during that period it is either becomes a pet of someone or a stray scavanging for food on the street. It may or may not realize why it has been born a dog coz you cannot understand it's intellectual knowledge. This animal has a powerful sense of smell that you or I do not possess. When trainded it can be very helful to mankind in many ways such as leading the blind, tracking lost persons or murderers, discovering hidden drugs and many other task that we humans cannot do. So do not think that dogs are low level of life form. You need to learn more about life beside your own religion.

If you look at the personality of an ordinary human being, you will realize that there is a lot in him, that is grosser and denser which cannot be purified and transformed in the shorter time of one life span. What is a hundred years or less than a hundred of life on a scale of millions of years of continuous evolution of life on earth ? Does not it sound illogical to say that we would remain static from the evolutionary point of view, while change is the nature of life and every thing else all around us is changing and evolving constantly?

Hinduism does not accept the premise that under normal circumstances an individual soul can free itself completely from the entanglement with Samsara and unite with its Creator in just one life time. The Jiva has to progressively evolve through the cycle of innumerable births and deaths before the soul can liberate itself. From inert matter to inert consciousness and then to dynamic consciousness, from ignorance to semi awareness and then to self awareness, from attachment to detachment and then to complete freedom, from illusion to awareness and then to reality, from darkness to dawn and then into light, from mortality to immortality: this is the forward movement of life in the whole creation. And all this cannot happen just in a few hundred years.

It is very obvious that God did not create the worlds and the beings in His likeness, but in exact opposite to it. If He would have created everything in His true likeness then there would have been no differentiation and no possibility of any movement. Creation would have remained static, without an aim and purpose, offering no scope for movement and change.

It is true that God is hidden in every aspect of His creation. But that which is visible and sensible is not His true self. It is His negative and false self, which tries to compete with Him and fight for its own individuality, and finally, having lost the battle, would move towards Him in total obedience.

Thus the whole drama of creation seems to start with the creation of His individual selves that hide themselves in His negative selves so that a movement away from Him and then again back to Him can be initiated and sustained. The Hindu scriptures describe this process variously with such expressions as: "the true self hides behind the false self, God enters into Prakriti, self becomes enveloped with ignorance".

The awakening comes after wards. When the soul stirs and makes its vibrations felt by the ignorant consciousness, the seeds of spiritualization of the being are sown. The movement that began away from God now becomes reversed. It then starts moving away from illusion and ignorance towards God and Truth.

The inexorable law of karma operates through out this grand drama. Karma is the correction mechanism, the chisel with which the negative self, the inert stone, is chiselled away till the hidden deity comes out of it and enters the temple of God. In the ordinary circumstances, awakening of a sleeping self cannot take place through miracles but through trial and error. Good actions lead to good future, and bad actions to the opposite. An awareness of this very law is the first great awakening and the first sure leap towards the Light.


All this cannot take place in one simple life, but over a period of time involving many lives. It cannot happen on the strength of a life time's learning but in the light of a great mass of accumulated wisdom. It cannot happen if the purpose of whole life is to move towards light and truth.

This is where the idea of reincarnation of soul perfectly fits in. If we accept the whole creation as a grand process stretching over a vast period of time, we cannot over look the importance and the role of man in it. Man cannot make a brief appearance on earth, live just one life and then disappear forever into the cozy corners of some safe heaven, or the vast dungeons of some burning hell, leaving creation, God and Nature to themselves.

i212

by Sepiroth
Define low level people please.

D.U.M.B people and sort of.

by Sepiroth
Biologically, Human Being - Homo Sapiens are just 1.4 million years old, YET we have other Homos (not Gays) like Cro Magnon, Neanthals etc which can be traced back to nearly 5 million years. There is no direct connection between this sub-species but when one species comes to existence and in apex of its existence, earlier species will vanish, as if the older species have no use for existence any more.

Its in evolution Theory.
Earlier species vanish not show that species after that are incarnated by previous.

by Seph
In such context, I could say you have seen evolution of Human race from pervious existence in more animalistic nature to current advance nature. Human beings ARE the best Nature have to offer to this point in existence (in history of the Planet) and that is possible ONLY because the Soul forces the Body to evolve forward to a higher stage.

Did you mean animal reincarnated become human?
How about Human?

by Seph
Without being told what to do, they could learn to climb trees, make slings, bows and arrows, learn to play hide and seek (hunting others) and some even learn about medicinal plants even when they are as young as 5 years old.

Its come from what we call indirect learning and problem solving skills that "programed" in our Mind.
Human have a lot of "basic nature program" in Mind that need to explore. Even animal have it.

Some exploration comes from indirect learning and some from direct learning.

Curiosity are the main source for learning.
e.g.: You watch a Tree. You want to know what in it, or what beneath it, or what above it. Then you will do anything to find the solution.


Can you explain how about animal.
Is they are incarnated or not?
How some of them can Climb, can Swim, etc.

Sephiroth

by i212   

D.U.M.B people and sort of.  

There are no dumb people (I could disagree with that in later thread though), just people who have lack of interest and lack of interest in pursuiting knowledge. If you do not care to be smarter by thinking, then you are dumb.

Its in evolution Theory.
Earlier species vanish not show that species after that are incarnated by previous.

Incorrect, Scientists have traced back many of the species believe to perish before to a newer species in later times - birds which evolved from Dinosaurs are one.

Did you mean animal reincarnated become human?
How about Human?

There are many stages for animal to become humans. They first have to develop their sensors. Animals are categorized according to how many sense they have and the higher they are, the closer they are to being humans. Cows, Dolphins and Great Apes are among 5th Sensed Creatures - capable of similar emotions to humans.

Its come from what we call indirect learning and problem solving skills that "programed" in our Mind.
Human have a lot of "basic nature program" in Mind that need to explore. Even animal have it.

Wrong ... Mind is False. Which part of the Brain does the Mind exist for it to have any sort of "Program" which could develop this skills?

WHERE did this "skills" comes from when parents and even grandparents do not have it? In Beethoven's case, it is said that either his parents or grandparents have any background in music. Not sure about this, someone check please.

Some exploration comes from indirect learning and some from direct learning.

Mimickry is learning directly - when young ones mimic what adults do. Indirect learning comes from where? The Mind? Is so, which part of the Brain does this Mind situated in?

Curiosity are the main source for learning.
e.g.: You watch a Tree. You want to know what in it, or what beneath it, or what above it. Then you will do anything to find the solution.

If that is true, then everyone should be climbing trees everywhere. I have seen only a certain people have such interest. Explain that.

Can you explain how about animal.
Is they are incarnated or not?
How some of them can Climb, can Swim, etc.  

Sure, they don't die once and be gone like what some Muslims thinks.

Some creatures are naturally born to swim, but some does so on their on - like dogs.

i thought sephiroth said and agreed that

Fine..no reincarnation.

so we dont need to debate anymore.  if we want to debate on God existence we can do
it in About God topic or others.

in short,

Reincarnation is B.U.S.T.E.D.

Sephiroth

by sentaja   

i thought sephiroth said and agreed that

Fine..no reincarnation.

Go hang yourself. Thank you. ;)

i212

by Seph
If that is true, then everyone should be climbing trees everywhere. I have seen only a certain people have such interest. Explain that.

Curiosity.

by Seph
Some creatures are naturally born to swim, but some does so on their on - like dogs.

If animal born with natural ability.
Why human need to reincarnated before have some ability?

Obersliutenant

Originally posted by Debmey at 30-10-2006 12:52 PM
So how does a dog or earthworm get itself promoted to humans under this system of reincarnation? Are humans supposed to be of a higher order of being?

I actually prefer to be a bird if reincaran ...

but what bird exactly? Quick! Get my recipe Book!




Anyways , if the concept of reincarnation is true why cant we remember what we are in the past?Can you remember what you were in the past Seph?

nightlord

I dont believe in reincarnation because it suggests that there is a merit system in improving the soul or consciousness, yet talks about individual incarnation into some other animal form.

That two does not mix.

Physical life (cellular) has nothing to do with consciousnes (ability to think and know what is wrong or right).

If you tell me that there is a reincarnation of consciousness (here i read soul) than i might believe that the universe may allow an event like that given special circumstances.

But if you say that physically in a given cellular form, god will punish or reward based on assigning different cellular attributes is a load of crap.

There is something you guys should think about though.

Bacteria can pass on learning.......

Yeah, a bacteria if confronted ,for example antibiotics, can learn how to pass on resistance to the antibiotics to the next generation. And no it is not that the surviving bacteria was immune in the first place.

So maybe on a physical level, we may be able to pass on "instinctive knowledge" like
babies ability to learn languages in a true cellular way.

That may account for Seph's childrens experiences of past lives - maybe their brain constitution allowed them to "remember" cellular "memories".

Debmey

Originally posted by nightlord at 2-11-2006 09:20 PM
Bacteria can pass on learning.......

Yeah, a bacteria if confronted ,for example antibiotics, can learn how to pass on resistance to the antibiotics to the next generation. And no it is not that the surviving bacteria was immune in the first place.

How can the bacteria not have resistance and yet reproduce?
And how can this bacteria learn resistance and how can it pass it down?

So maybe on a physical level, we may be able to pass on "instinctive knowledge" like
babies ability to learn languages in a true cellular way.
That may account for Seph's childrens experiences of past lives - maybe their brain constitution allowed them to "remember" cellular "memories".

No sir, its a matter of selective survival. There are some within a group of bacteria the ability to resist. This group gets to reproduce while others die.

Anyway, Seph still cannot explain who sets the benchmark for what is good or bad or how an earthworm or bacteria can earn points to promote for the next reincarnation.