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Originally posted by faztech at 24-11-2006 09:33 PM
Dear all,
this is not to the original poster (eventough I quoted his post), but this is to all muslims. The rest, let them find the truth by themselves, and let them get the answers from t ...
thanks for ur pics. but u got it wrong;
All I asked, does ur koran has verses on Eve /or hawa why ur allah give pain giving birth to eve/or hawa?
this my Bible verses:
Genesis 3:15-22 (King James Version)
15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
16Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
17And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
So does ur koran have such verses?? |
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No it doesn't have as your bible is corrupt, how about this....
PAIN AND BEREAVEMENT
When Sir James Young Simpson, the famous Scottish obstetrician, used ether about the middle of the nineteenth century to alleviate the pain of childbirth, the church reacted violently against him. It was believed that the pain of childbirth was God's prescribed punishment for Eve (and every Eve) because of her alleged role in tempting Adam to disobey the Lord by eating the fruit of the forbidden tree. A campaign was launched against Simpson for his interference with the will of God, and the attack stopped only when Queen Victoria invited Simpson to conduct her delivery under his pain-releaving technique.
The concept of God's punishment to Eve through the pain of childbirth does not exist in Islam, nor is she held responsible for Adam's sin. As mentioned earlier in this book, both succumbed to the temptation by the devil, both repented and both were granted God's forgiveness before Man started his career on earth as Vice Gerent ofGod, endowed with the concept of good and evil, the mind to discriminate between them and the freedom to make a choice. This is the only feasible basis for the accountability of Man. If Man (every man) was not free to choose, then responsibility would cease as also if someone else would have paid the price of human sins and accountability was priorly waived.
The issue of alleviating pain is nowadays beyond debate neither the church nor anyone else in our times are against pain relief.
In Islam, pain should not be invited, and indeed every measure should be taken to prevent its occurrance and to suppress it if it occurs. The concept of spiritual purification by humiliating the body through pain, uncleanliness or neglect of physical well being is alien to Islam. Indeed the prophet peace be upon him teaches:
"Verily your body has a right upon you. "
But if pain is inevitable, then it is a charity in Islam to endure it in grace. Patience is a value in itself, and holds a very high position at that Whereas the prophet says: "Seek a treatment (for your illness)", he also says: "By Him who holds my soul: never did the faithful suffer pain or illness, but God puts away his sins as a tree sheds its leaves." (Bukhari) It is not only physical pain that is encountered in the practice of obstetrics & gynaecology but psychologic pain as well. A baby born dead or malformed or dying in the early neonatal period is a crisis the obstetrician is often called upon to handle. According to medical literature, the mother's response to these situations typically goes through the classical phases of initial shock, denial and refusing to believe that it happened to her, extreme depression and hostility or anger towards the doctor, the person who brought the sad news, the team who managed the delivery or neonatal care or even the whole world. She might even entertain feelings of guilt for something she commited or omitted during the pregnancy, and some of them take it as a punishment from God for something she did in the past (induced abortion is frequently quoted). It will be a variable time until the stage of acceptance and later adaptation are reached.
In practice, we have seen this stereotyped course appreciably and sometimes radically modified by mobilizing the protective power of faith, either autonomously by the patient herself, or therapeutically by her doctor if he (or she) is well equipped for the role. In a western environment this role of the doctor is almost unexistant nowadays and mostly unthinkable. Faith is not written in medical books and to delve into it would be trespassing outside the sacred 'boundaries of proper practice. Patient management has become increasingly fragmented, and the case might be handled in the fashion of a production line by the obstetrician, the ultrasonographist, the fetal echocardiologist, the genetic counsellor, the laboratory, the neonatologist, the psychologist (for the stressed), the priest (in situations of death and dying) and quite frequently the attorney for the malpractice suit. The pattern aims of course at providing top expertise all the way, and yet the area of faith remains notoriously empty. This pattern is no surprise in communities where the impact of religion on every day life has faded.
When faith is alive, it is the primary and richest resource to be tapped in the face of adversity and it can offer instant support and immunity. '"You have given and You have taken and You are testing me. What you will I accept without a grudge and I thank You for inspiring me patience and giving me the strength to overcome. I am grateful all the way and I hope to be to the satisfaction of Your expectations."
This prayer and its likes represent and foster an attitude that minimizes the effects of the traumatic experience and reduce it to an easily manageable scale. The prophet teaches that lost children are a credit to the believer in the hereafter and a security from the horrors of the day of judgement. The Quran says :
"Be sure we shall test you with something of fear and hunger, some loss in goods or lives or fruits (of your toil), but give glad tidings to those who patiently persevere, who say-when afflicted with calamity: To God we belong, and to Him is our return. They are those on whom (descend) blessings from God and mercy, and they are the ones that receive guidance." (2: 155-177)
In itself patience is a "value", and individuals or societies who cannot see it as such might be in grave jeopardy when confronting stress. 'Patience' was mentioned in the Quran on one hundred and three occasions and is highly esteemed. But the principal source of patience is faith, and if this exists it is the retreat to fall back to. Even when clouded by grief, faith can be addressed by the. counsellor who can attune to it, and it will work wonders. A case I always quote is that of a lady doctor who gave birth to a congenitally abnormal daughter the care for which really taxed her endurance. For two years she lived in bitterness and resentment, over-whelmed by the unanswerable questions of "why?" and "why me?"
Although the defect was not mendelian and the prospects for another pregnancy were good, she refrained from pregnancy in view of her psychological condition, that occasionally became really bad. One day a gynaecological condition brought her to visit a gynaecologist who had not been so far aware of her story. Listening to her history, he asked whether she was an atheist or a believer so as to tailor his talk accordingly and she said she was a believer. "'Patience per se is a great thing in human life, and for its own sake God wants to enrich the human soul with this ingredient. To exercise patience in grace and acceptance is in the long run a valuable endowment of human life, as well as a great charity with a generous reward. Because of this, you must not consider that the effort you give your child is a purposeless waste. It might in fact be the principal role you are assigned to play through your life according to God's plan for you. And as you believe in the hereafter, just imagine that people there look at hell with great horror and clumber at the gates of heaven, to which none had access but those who had their keys to open and enter. Did it ever occur to you that in the awe of that situation your key might just be your daughter?"
With this brief conversation she promptly changed. Her receiving apparatus had been there but just waiting for the proper message at the matching wave length. She left the clinic a different person. She became very fond of her child and her outlook to life enormously brightened. Her radiant smile and glittering eyes were a happy surprise to her relatives and friends. She stopped contraception, got pregnant and gave birth to a lovely normal girl, and looked a model of happiness. She again became pregnant, and this time the ultrasonographist suspected some degree of microencephaly later in pregnancy. She was of course worried but well contained, announcing she would accept whatever came. Fortunately the baby turned out to be normal, another beautiful little girl.
In other cultures such an approach would be taboo. Its feasibility depends on the faith-index of the community as well as the individual doctor, individual patient and the integrity and scope of the doctor-patient relationship: which in certain contemporary advanced communities has been largely transformed into a medico-legal relationship.
In the "Islamic Code of Medical Ethics (Islamic Organization of Medical Sciences, Kuwait), the following phrase is worth quoting (Chapter 11, p 190): "Faith is remedial, a healer, conqueror of stress and procurer of cure. The training of the doctor should prepare him (or her) to bolster faith and avail the patient of its unlimited blessings."
[ Last edited by hi5 at 24-11-2006 11:22 PM ] |
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Originally posted by hi5 at 24-11-2006 11:20 PM
The concept of God's punishment to Eve through the pain of childbirth does not exist in Islam, nor is she held responsible for Adam's sin. As mentioned earlier in this book, both succumbed to the temptation by the devil, both repented and both were granted God's forgiveness before Man started his career on earth as Vice Gerent ofGod, endowed with the concept of good and evil, the mind to discriminate between them and the freedom to make a choice. This is the only feasible basis for the accountability of Man. If Man (every man) was not free to choose, then responsibility would cease as also if someone else would have paid the price of human sins and accountability was priorly waived.
So ur koran did not says that Eve /or Hawa will suffered while giving birth because she disobey God commandment?
[ Last edited by Truth.8 at 24-11-2006 11:30 PM ] |
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if you're truly christian.....
This belief is often attributed to the Bible, Genesis 3:16. The word translated as ?ain? or ?orrow? is the Hebrew ?tzev.
This same word is used 16 times throughout the Bible. Nowhere else is it translated as ?ain?. In fact, in the very next verse, Genesis 3:17, it is accurately translated as it is in all other instances, as ?oil?.2[2]
Even if pain and suffering in labor were punishment for Eve? sin, isn? the purpose of baptism to cleanse away sin? Wasn? the purpose of Jesus dying on the cross to atone for the sins of the world?
[ Last edited by hi5 at 24-11-2006 11:34 PM ] |
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Originally posted by Truth.8 at 24-11-2006 11:28 PM
So ur koran did not says that Eve /or Hawa will suffered while giving birth because she disobey God commandment?
The concept of God's punishment to Eve through the pain of childbirth does not exist in Islam, nor is she held responsible for Adam's sin. As mentioned earlier in this book, both succumbed to the temptation by the devil, both repented and both were granted God's forgiveness before Man started his career on earth as Vice Gerent ofGod, endowed with the concept of good and evil, the mind to discriminate between them and the freedom to make a choice. This is the only feasible basis for the accountability of Man. If Man (every man) was not free to choose, then responsibility would cease as also if someone else would have paid the price of human sins and accountability was priorly waived.
You never read don't you?...so fast in replying |
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Originally posted by hi5 at 24-11-2006 11:29 PM
This belief is often attributed to the Bible, Genesis 3:16. The word translated as ?ain? or ?orrow? is the Hebrew ?tzev.
This same word is used 16 times throughout the Bible. Nowhere else is it tr ...
In Bible, Eve listen to serpent and ask Adam to eat the forbiden fruit. So, God made fair trial that Eve should suffered in pain while giving birth where else Adam should work to support his wife and family.
Genesis 3:15-22 (King James Version)
15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
16Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
17And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
19In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
20And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.
21Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.
22And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
...yet in koran there is no saying of that. How can we accept allah our god when it contradict and muslims have no idea why womens have to suffered while giving birth. The Bible made it clear because of eve all womens should bear the suffering while giving birth . This is a lesson that God given to humans so that we should always be alert and spiritually connected to God but in Islam teachings it failed to teach fair trial. Both Adam and Eve was cursed taken out from Garden of Paradise.
Only Satan will hide such teaching because satan is father of liar .
so, am i wrong to leave islam??
[ Last edited by Truth.8 at 24-11-2006 11:40 PM ] |
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i read but it was a view or philosophy write up.
Islam failed again and it contradict the true teaching of true God. |
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From faztech he already mentioned about womens suffering during birth. Quran doesn't mention it because it was not a curse of eve. Both were repented and forgiven..why must there be a curse?.
here I put it again "Even if pain and suffering in labor were punishment for Eve? sin, isn't the purpose of baptism to cleanse away sin? Wasnt? the purpose of Jesus dying on the cross to atone for the sins of the world"
if you're a christian, you should believe this
[ Last edited by hi5 at 24-11-2006 11:50 PM ] |
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even christian say it was not a curse at all.......
http://www.fearlessbirthing.com/Pain.pdf
Islam doesn't fail at all, but you doesn't seem to understand it. You've been blinded by your new fancy religion.....jingle bell, jingle bell!! hoh...hoh..hoh.!!!
[ Last edited by hi5 at 24-11-2006 11:53 PM ] |
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Originally posted by hi5 at 24-11-2006 11:45 PM
From faztech he already mentioned about womens suffering during birth. Quran doesn't mention it because it was not a curse of eve. Both were repented and forgiven..why must there be a curse?.
he ...
that is science fact. Science cannot explained God power. that is fact. Koran did not says anything abt Eve who listen to serpent and was cursed by God that she will suffer in giving birth and that suffering will continued to all womens until end times.
My main aim to find out whether koran indeed comes from god. if it does why it contradict ? The Bible prefect in giving full explanation on this issue. |
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by giving those facts about child birth by faztech you should know by now that Quran was from Allah. eventhough you may say it was not what you're looking for but the fact.....it is. |
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Originally posted by hi5 at 24-11-2006 11:47 PM
http://www.fearlessbirthing.com/Pain.pdf
Islam doesn't fail at all, but you doesn't seem to understand it. You've been blinded by your new fancy religion.....jingle bell, jingle bell!! hoh...hoh ...
only some corrupt faith will says that.
remember satan is liar from begining. Satan aim to says " no , womens do not suffered giving birth in begining" when God says "Eve u shall suffered while giving birth" |
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Originally posted by hi5 at 24-11-2006 11:55 PM
by giving those facts about child birth by faztech you should know by now that Quran was from Allah. eventhough you may say it was not what you're looking for but the fact.....it is.
it failed to expalined the original suffering of women. can we trust the surah? No |
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ahhh...
im outta here.........
i always feel reading truth 8 posts is useless....
he made me sick to visit RSF site.... |
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such along write up and you've reply very fast!!!...did you read?.
Islam doesn't deny the pain of birth...come on la. pls. roll up to the top page. It's not the curse....
As you can see how christian is so contradic in this case....I put it once again
"Even if pain and suffering in labor were punishment for Eve? sin, isn't the purpose of baptism to cleanse away sin? Wasnt? the purpose of Jesus dying on the cross to atone for the sins of the world" |
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Originally posted by Truth.8 at 24-11-2006 11:58 PM
it failed to expalined the original suffering of women. can we trust the surah? No
Can we trust the bible... BIG NO NO! |
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Originally posted by ussopp at 24-11-2006 11:59 PM
im outta here.........
i always feel reading truth 8 posts is useless....
he made me sick to visit RSF site....
faztech theory is on baby embryo but it failed to explain why did God made Eve the first women suffered while giving birth?
The Bible says Eve listen to serpent and was cursed and she will suffered in giving birth. The Koran did not teach it. |
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Originally posted by hi5 at 25-11-2006 12:02 AM
Can we trust the bible... BIG NO NO!
At we know why women suffered while giving birth because of Eve who listen to serpent. Koran failed to explained.
So, I would says big NO NO to Koran |
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Originally posted by Truth.8 at 25-11-2006 12:04 AM
At we know why women suffered while giving birth because of Eve who listen to serpent. Koran failed to explained.
So, I would says big NO NO to Koran
So jesus death doesn't justify as women still suffer until today? |
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Post time 24-11-2006 11:20 PM
Post time 24-11-2006 11:59 PM
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