Seni bela diri-kongsi pendapat-

windof

tak per la komeng, janji hang ada jugak knowledge pasai persilatan nusantara. Selamat sejahtera ke atas anda.

ReuK

Hmmm adreanalin dump? menarik :hmm:

ni pendapat aku lah...

adrenalin dump ni sama ngn panik...membabi buta
bila kita panik maka tumbukan pon jadi lembik jer.. heh heh

aku musykil tentang demo tuh..

korang tau yg bullet man tu akan serang.... bukan serang hendap kat lorong sunyi yer? so selepas bertahun sparring, berlatih menumbuk.. logik korang akan hilang step?
unless kalau perasaan gemuruh dan malu memenuhi ruang laa

ada bnyk skill..tumbuk, sepak, kunci, elak takkan laa sumer tu langsung tak jalan?

of course laaa kalo nak ckp pasal street fighting mmg aku prefer cabut lari dari berentap ngn penjenayah tuh tapi still aku rasa demo yg ditulis dlm artikel tu ada sumthing wrong lah... hmmmm :hmm:

[ Last edited by  ReuK at 4-2-2007 10:33 AM ]

ReuK

teknik ringkas hadapi serangan?

jerit 'tolong!" dan cabut lariii

gerenti efisien hehehe

ReuK

hohoho :setuju:

melatah tu lah yg membezakan pengamal seni beladiri dan bukan pengamal seni beladiri...

tapi melatah ni bahaya gak... den pernah terlepas 2 biji penumbuk.. member gua tetiba serbu bukan reti bagi salam
nasib baik tak kena

senior aku lak org tepuk bahu dia dari belakng terus dia redi penumbuk   
nasib tak lepas dan mmber aku berundur... kalo idak patah gigi tuh... penumbuk keras cam batu senior haku tuh

skrg aku dah tumpull...melatah pong cakap opocot sajaaa heee heee

cloud_hardcore

aku bukan la hebat....
tahu pon bukan byk....tp sekadar berkongsi...
terima kasih pada sikomeng sbb byk pendapat yg diberikan...
ternyata pengatahuan die luas....

cloud_hardcore

tentang latah....
aku de cite yg mane terkena pada aku....
ayah aku pernah juga blaja silat...tp aku pon xtau silat pe...die suruh aku mencari tp bukan dgn die...

back to the story....
mase aku kecik dlu ayh aku ni kuat gak melatah terutama nya ble die tido...
klu de org nk kejut die berhati2 ar....

aku penah kejut die untuk makan..
tp aku dlu makan penyepak die....sakit oi......
tp skrg ni dh xmelatah la...dlu2 je.....
huhuhu.....

cloud_hardcore

berlatih untuk menjadi kan seni tu hak amat lah susah....
kadang2 ble melatah,kite dah ready ng penumbuk tp
ble kite dh sedar ng keadaan sekeliling akan timbul adreanalin dump ni...

pernah terjadi pada sepupu aku....
die 2nd dan black belt holder teakwondo...

cerita nya ade terlanggar blakang keta org...ketika tu hujan...
pemilik kereta yg kena langgar ni hangin lalu marah n pukul die...
tp die tak lawan balik....

selepas tu aku tye la die..
nape tak lawan balik?...
die kate jam..tak tau nk wat pe...die panik...

ni spupu aku yg 2nd dan black belt holder...
dah boleh buke klaz teakwando..tp still mengalami adreanalin dump...

pikir2 kan lah cerita ini.....
berlatih...berlatih....berlatih.....

wassalam...

ReuK

refer pada citer sepupu ko nih...ada bnyk sbb kenapa dia panik..

sbb satu ialah perasaan bersalah... dan cuak juga yer lah saper yg tak gabra bila terlibat ngn xcdent kan?

sekenly bila dah xcident kita ni biasanyer lebih pentingkan kenderaan dr diri sendiri..contohnye aku dlu masa xcden sedera parah kat muka nih tapi still nak anta moto gi kedai dari anta diri sendiri gi hospital :lol

jadi kita ni tak redi lah nak bertumbuk ngn org.. jadi lah panik nih..

yang penting nak hindari panik ialah dgn memelihara ketenangan sepanjang masa, cerdas akal utk putar alam 360 darjah

susah tu tapi tak mustahil

cloud_hardcore

yup...
mungkin ape yg ko btau tu menjadi penyebab nye...
tp tak kisah ape penyebab nye...
pengamal seni beladiri sebenar nye telah diajar untuk bertenang...
dengan pemikiran yg tenang, otak akan menjadi cerdas, pandangan menjadi jelas dan jasad membela diri...

sikomeng

ASM.
aku pernah jugak dengar ada orang tua kata cam ni. manalah tau, bole kita buat pedoman siket-siket

Teras pada hasil belajar tu ada 4. Kekuatan, kepantasan, ketepatan dan keseimbangan.
Kekuatan itu pada zahirnya tulang empat kerat. Kalau diri tak kuat, tak ada daya kita nak bertahan apa lagi nak melawan...
Kekuatan itu pada bathin nya akal, fikir, bathin dan rohani. Disitulah letak segala kunci pada Ilmu yang dibelajar...

Kepantasan itu pada zahirnya "hadir apabila orang lain belum hadir".  Maknanya dalam apa perbuatan pun, segala gerak segala tapak, segala perbuatan orang, adalah dalam gerak kita dan kita mendahului mereka bukan sebaliknya...
Kepantasan itu pada bathinnya adalah "hadir hati apabila hati orang lain belum hadir". Maksudnya hati kita bergerak dahulu dari badan. Itulah yang kita katakan "latah" tu. Kerana gerak bukan lagi difikir, tapi hadir tanpa kita sendiri sedar...

Ketepatan itu pada zahirnya "sampai pada tujuan". Kalau sasaran, tepat kesasaran. Tak perlu pada gerakan yang banyak, cukup dengan satu tumbukan tetapi kuat, pantas dan tepat, maka hasilnya bolehlah kita fikirkan akibatnya...
Ketepatan itu pada bathinnya "betul sangkaan pada gerak". Maknanya tiap gerak yang kita pilih adalah tepat untuk masa dan keadaan...yang kadang tak sampai pun setengah saat untuk kita memilih...

Seimbang itu pada zahirnya adalah "timbangan badan yang memikul dengan seni yang dibawa". Maksudnya kita kena imbangkan badan dengan apa yang nak dibawa. Jangan terlebih, jangan terkurang. Contohnya, Jangan pulak baru belajar, dah merasa diri pandai seperti sudah pengalaman berpuluh tahun...begitulah lebih kurang.
Seimbang itu pada bathinnya adalah " timbangan urusan dunia dan urusan akhirat". Siapa yang boleh mengimbang keperluan dirinya untuk hidup dan mati, dialah yang berjaya...

Maka setelah lengkap dan faham seorang yang belajar itu akan kelengkapan dan bekal, maka tehasillah apa yang dinamakanorang "Seni". "Seni" ini adalah umpama "Ibu jari bagi 4 jari" yang awal tadi...Dan bila sudah lengkap "5 jari" tu, hanya ketika itu kita boleh menggenggam.....   

wallahua'lam...

tuah_r

pasal adrenalin pump, pada pemahaman aku iallah semua dgn izin Allah.

kiter berlatih bersungguh2, sama ada kite dapat bergerak atau tidak semasa diperlukan, semuanya atas keizinan Allah. kita tak boleh takbur, ilmu, dari Allah.

mcm aku slalu cakap, kita makan, akan rasa kenyang,sapa yg kasi rasa kenyang. kalau kita haus,minum air, hilang rasa haus.siapa yg hilangkan rasa haus? melainkan dgn izin Allah jua. kalau Allah tak izinkan kita rasa kenyang, makan 1 dulang pon tak kenyang2.

abis tuh, kenapa belajau martial art? kalau berlatih tapi tak dapat guna? mestilah kite belajar, manakan sama...org berilmu dgn org yg tak berilmu.tak rugi pon belajar martial art.makin belajar, makin bertamba keimanan, rasa sabar, menghormati dan rendah diri.

adwim79

It's interesting to read articles in leading martial artsmagazines about fighting or defending against more than one opponent.

Some of the authors make it sound easy. They claim that if you know what you're doing you can easily defend against two,three or even four or more attackers.

I have seen video/DVD authors say the same thing.

Here's the truth....

BULL!!

Defending yourself against even two opponents is not only extremely difficult in most cases but many times a losing battle. Going against three or four, well depending on who they are, you probably don't have much of a chance.

Yes it does depend on who the attackers are. How much street fighting (including mugging) experience do they have?

Are they teens feeling their 'oats' or a few drunks with 'beer muscles'? Yes you have a much better chance
against them (if you know what you're doing). Notice I said a chance, not a guarantee.

I can tell you that even the most experienced and tough fighters would have a very hard time against three or four street wise thugs who have been there many times before.

The same is true if the attackers were three college football players. Big strong guys in good shape who
were used to getting banged around, even if they really didn't know how to fight.

Another important factor in multiple opponent defense is where the attack takes place. Are you in a bar or closed in area where it's impossible to move (movement is one of the most important elements in successful multi-opponent self defense)? Or, are in an open area like a wide side
walk, street or parking lot?

Look, I not saying it's impossible but real street attacks don't happen like in the movies where the star picks off the attackers one by one with spinning kicks, throws and multiple hand techniques.

Real attackers usually come at you together, simultaneously,making it very difficult to keep them off of you.

So is it useless to even try to learn multiple opponent self defense? No, of course not. But understand that it's not the best place to find yourself. You had better be able to dismantle to the first guy very quickly and know how to move so that you are only fighting one (to one and one half) attacker at a time.

Most of the training I have seen on this is incomplete at best. There are a few fairly decent videos on the subject but I find most martial arts and self defense instructors are teaching old theory without any (or very few) training drills to help their students learn this effectively.

sikomeng

ASM.
Seni bela diri/seni mempertahankan diri ni tentulah sakit dan banyak kemungkinan buruk boleh berlaku. Tapi itulah hakikatnya...
Nak kata cara gini bagus, cara gitu tak bagus, susah jugak sebab maklumlah keadaan sebenar susah nak kata apa yang akan berlaku.
Kalu dua tiga lima orang serang kita seorang, harus kita mati, harus cedera, harus jugak orang lain tu semua pendek umur. Petua untuk tempur "close combat" ni banyak di ajar, terpulang pada murid nak cerap dan amal. Kalu harap berlatih takut sakit, benci kat cikgu kalau cikgu marah, tak nak  kena herdik, kutuk, belasah, tok sah belajar...selalunya siapa yang hati dan badan nya dah lali kena belasah dalam gelanggang, bukan takat lima, mai lah lima puluh orang pun, insyaAllah dia sapu semua...tak kiralah lepas tu dia sendiri pun lunyai jugak. Rasanya tak ada bergaduh sebenar yang tak sakit, tak cedera...tu baru orang letak tangan atau kaki kat badan...belum kira orang letak parang kat batang leher, laras senapang atau pistol kat kening...tok sah ceritalah risikonya...
Dalam latihan, siapa yang jadikan badan dia ""punch-bag" , siapa yang tulang empat keratnya dah lali, siapa yang hatinya kering dari orang lain, siapa yang serius berlatih, siapa yang rapat dengan guru, siapa yang hatinya murni, tak buruk sangka dengan orang, siapa yang belajar untuk jadi manusia terbilang, dialah yang berjaya. KAdang tu bukan banyak pun dibelajar, tapi dek kerana dilatih terus menerus, jadi lebih baik dari orang yang tahu banyak tapi dia sendiri bercelaru...
Ada latihan yang menekankan suasana betul dalam gelanggang. Bukan tak ada. umpama free sparring lah, tapi gunalah senjata betul dan serang pun serang jelah betul-betul. Selalunya yang mula-mula muncul ialah "takut cedera" dll. lah. Selagi ada rasa takut yang gini, aku nak gerenti tak lah, tapi kalu kita letak orang ni kat medan tempur, maaf aku kata, silap-silap boleh basah seluar....Bak kata orang melayu "alah bisa tegal dek biasa". Kalu dah biasa luka, bejahit 9,12 jahit kat badan, kat muka, dah masuk klinik, hospital dek kerana belatih, senget benget tulang menulang dek kerana latihan...biasanya orang gini tak nak begaduh dah pulak, takut kesan tak baik pada orang lain lah pulak!
SEni bela diri ni seni perbuatan. Boleh dibincang tapi tanpa amal, tanpa pengorbanan yang bukan calang-calang, tok sah lah kita nak harap hasil. Ni kenyataan. Kalu berlatih tanpa pengalaman, memang susah nak cerita. Gitulah lebih kurang....
salam!

ReuK

komeng... konyer posting kasi itu paragraph turun jauh sket laaa... kelabu mata aku nak baca weh!

tapi best baca pendapat ko :hatdown:

ReuK

aku suka dgn artikel nih... kena ngn pemikiran aku..

ni lah cara terbaik utk hilangkan panik/adrenalin dump dan sbgnyer...analisis kekuatan lawan dahulu alaaa mcm dlm komik tuuu... test power org jawa ckp

kita tgk kalau bdk yg tahap gila2 remaja tunjuk lagak kuat, perlu ker kita buat kuda2, bunga pastu tumbuk kat titik maut contoh cam ulu hati?
dulu aku penah jumpa bdk2 camni, aku cuma tangkap tangan dia sebelah pastu lempang bnyk kali sambil bagi nasihat a.k.a leteran kat dia

so tindak balas kita harus bergantung pada lawan... analisis dulu camana dia leh menyerang, ada bhg yg dia nmpk sakit?, umur, air muka yg panik atau buat2 ganas, cara pegang senjata..

seriously kesilapan besar kita pengamal seni beladiri ni ialah terlalu menggunakan semua ilmu... mcm nak buru sekor arnab pakai sebuah keter kebal.. tentulah lari arnab tu kan?

kalau drug addict, mata kuyu, kurus melengkung tapi pegang pisau
perlu ke kita buka kuda2 dan tunggu serangan dia?
kan lebih baik diri tegak, ambil jarak yg selamat dan lepaskan tendangan padu ke dagu dia? atau ada cara laen yg lebih ringkas

tak laa bermaksud segala bunga, langkah yg kita belajar tu tak membantu
kita harus ingat, gerak paling asas dlm beladiri ialah tumbuk, tendang, tangkis dan elak dan mmg itulah yg kita belajar dlm gelanggang atau kelas.. betul?

jadi jangan laa malu kalau kita defense tapi tak guna cara yg 100% sama ngn aliran bela diri kita
sebab asasnya tetap sama- tumbuk, tendang, tangkis dan elak

kalau kawan tanya "Apsal ko pakai tomoi bukan cekak masa lawan?" kita jawab lah "Ko ingat tomoi je yg pandai menumbuk?"

ok, spt biasa its strictly my personal opinion but open for discussion :solute:

tuah_r

aku setuju dgn pendapat ko reuk. kalau seseorg minat martial art,die jugak akan amik tau pasal martial art lain ,terutama serangan ringkas yg fatal, yg boleh di apply masa terdesak.

aku belajar cekak, tapi ada gerakan yg aku minat dari aikido and silat sendeng. paling besh pada aku, silat cekak dari asal lagi mmg takde kekuda, just berdiri tegak.

kalau dah mahir, iallah akan tau menghadapi serangan dari ramai org serentak. latihan mmg bukan main2.kalau tikam dgn pisau, tikam betul2.kalau ketuk kepala dgn tongkat, ketuk jerk...(aku rasa pakai helmet selamat sket   , janji masa ketuk tuh...ketuk betul2 kat kepala, dgn laju.bukan ketuk sebelah kepala dia)

ReuK

yes <img src="images/smilies/sepanduk2.gif" smilieid="59" border="0" alt="" /><br />
<br />
bagi aku apa yg membuatkan fikiran MArtist sempit ialah bila defense mesti 100% guna skill aliran yg dipelajari..actually it is larger, lebih luas dari aliran beladiri kita sendiri<br />
<br />
kalau kita lah jadi crook, nak rompak org, ada batang kayu kat tgn nih pastu org yg nak dirompak tu buka kekuda, gelek kiri gelek kanan agaknya apa yg kita buat? <br />
<br />
of course laaa ketuk straight to the head kan? org yg buka kekuda ni susah nak bergerak sebenarnyaa<br />
<br />
so be smart.. bukan aku maksudkan kekuda tu menyusahkan tapi ia harus digunakan pada masa dan lawan yg betull..apa salahnya gunakan skill aliran laen asalkan badan kita selamat? takde nak malunya daripada kita masuk sokkaba atau lagi buruk dibungkus sokkaba<br />
<br />
bagi aku dlm gelanggang dah cukup dah ilmu beladiri yg di ajar oleh guru.. termasuk dgn strategi, helah dan taktik pertarungan... contoh bila org tumbuk camni caner kita nak ambik, kat mana nak serang, caner nak guna senjata, apa kelemahan tendangan, tumbukan etc etc <br />
bezanya anak murid tu pandai ke tak menggunakannya..<br />
<br />
sama laaa kita blajar matematik, algebra, kosanus, tangen, persamaan dan bla bla bla tapi kita ada ke gunakan tu semua dlm urusan seharian? <br />
<br />
fikir- fikirkanlah <img src="images/smilies/1.gif" smilieid="90" border="0" alt="" />

[ Last edited by  ReuK at 12-2-2007 10:53 AM ]

adwim79

We teach that if you are being 'interviewed' by an aggressor that the assertive posture or position is best. What we mean by the interview are the threats, questions or 'woofing' which are usually the prelim for a physical attack.

Police, the FBI and even criminals with a history of assaults will all tell you that most attacks don't start off by someone jumping out from behind a car, alleyway or bush. No, most physical attacks start off with some type of verbal assault which we affectionately call the interview.

The reason for this is most criminals and bullies want to know what they are facing before getting 'down to it'. They want to know how you react so that can decide whether you are an easy
victim or someone who may put up a real fight.

Ignoring these threats, insults or questions can open the door for an immediate physical attack.
The assertive posture as taught in Street Self Defense 101 and in Street Sense - Smart Self Defense for Women is an 'in between' posture or mode. Passive on one side and aggressive on the other. This assertive mode lets the attacker know that you don't want any trouble and that you will let him safe face (give him an
easy way out). At the same time is shows strength and hides fear. That doesn't mean you won't be scared but you are doing your best to hide it.

As a rule this is the best way to handle the interview. However if the attack has started or is certainly evident, a compliance position or the non threatening stance might be better. Here is how this works.

Lets suppose someone grabs your collars and starts shaking you and threatening to 'beat you to a pulp' if you don't....whatever (give him your money, come with him, give him your car keys, etc.)

At this point you want to bring your hands up but in a way that shows compliance. So your hands are higher than his, open with palms out and shaking them gently from side to side. Giving the visual appearance as 'please, please don't hurt me'.

This action has the effect of giving your attacker power as he thinks you are terrified and will do whatever he wants. Now, your hands are up and in a position to strike (or block if he releases one of his hands to hit you).

The compliant position gives you a tactical advantage because now you can surprise your attacker with quick palm strikes to the face or eye strikes. This will cause him to release one or both hands.

Once you have started striking him you will continue striking until the threat is non existent.

adwim79

We teach that if you are being 'interviewed' by an aggressor that the assertive posture or position is best. What we mean by the interview are the threats, questions or 'woofing' which are usually the prelim for a physical attack.

Police, the FBI and even criminals with a history of assaults will all tell you that most attacks don't start off by someone jumping out from behind a car, alleyway or bush. No, most physical attacks start off with some type of verbal assault which we affectionately call the interview.

The reason for this is most criminals and bullies want to know what they are facing before getting 'down to it'. They want to know how you react so that can decide whether you are an easy
victim or someone who may put up a real fight.

Ignoring these threats, insults or questions can open the door for an immediate physical attack.
The assertive posture as taught in Street Self Defense 101 and in Street Sense - Smart Self Defense for Women is an 'in between' posture or mode. Passive on one side and aggressive on the other. This assertive mode lets the attacker know that you don't want any trouble and that you will let him safe face (give him an
easy way out). At the same time is shows strength and hides fear. That doesn't mean you won't be scared but you are doing your best to hide it.

As a rule this is the best way to handle the interview. However if the attack has started or is certainly evident, a compliance position or the non threatening stance might be better. Here is how this works.

Lets suppose someone grabs your collars and starts shaking you and threatening to 'beat you to a pulp' if you don't....whatever (give him your money, come with him, give him your car keys, etc.)

At this point you want to bring your hands up but in a way that shows compliance. So your hands are higher than his, open with palms out and shaking them gently from side to side. Giving the visual appearance as 'please, please don't hurt me'.

This action has the effect of giving your attacker power as he thinks you are terrified and will do whatever he wants. Now, your hands are up and in a position to strike (or block if he releases one of his hands to hit you).

The compliant position gives you a tactical advantage because now you can surprise your attacker with quick palm strikes to the face or eye strikes. This will cause him to release one or both hands.

Once you have started striking him you will continue striking until the threat is non existent.

tuah_r

so, ada sesapa nak bg pendapat, kelebihan and kekurangan martial art yg menggunakan lebih byk gerakan tangan and kelebihan and kekurangan martial art yg menggunakan lebih byk gerakan kaki....