The evil that had blinded Muslims

eastrun · Post time 18-4-2007 07:39 PM

7)
I aske you a question you cannot answer me and here you go rattling. No Hindus are ruled by Vedic laws in India so what is the fuss about? But Muslims are ruled by Islamic laws and that is the problem here.

Women and Islam

by Mohammad Asghar

19 December, 2005

Islam's stand on woman is a highly contentious issue. It is more so for those people who are not Muslims. They often want to know what rights and privileges Islam has granted to woman, a question that arises out of the claim that Islam is the latest and the modern religion of the world. The question becomes very important, when it is considered from the standpoint of Allah's claim. He is believed to have claimed that it is He who has established Islam and that, among all the religions of the world, Islam is the perfect one, which all humans should follow, if they want to earn His pleasure, and heaven in their next life.

But is Islam truly a perfect religion and does it require its followers to treat their women in the manner all humans are supposed to be treated? We need to examine the teachings of Islam to answer these critical questions as clearly as it is possible.

Allah does not like daughters, because (1) they grow up wearing trinkets and (2) they cannot give a clear account in a dispute (43:18).

He does not like women, because they are easily susceptible to forgetfulness and to the commission of errors (2:282).

Because women are not liked by Allah, He granted men a degree of advantage over them (2:229). Because men have a degree of advantage over their women, Allah has granted the right of marriage to Muslim men (2:237). Muslim women cannot marry, it being the prerogative of their men only.

As because Muslim women have no right to marry, they also do not have the right to divorce their husbands, even in situations where they find them to be brute or impotent. Muslim women can gain their freedom from their husbands only if they are able to induce them to utter the words of divorce with some gifts or compensation (2:229).

Read about it all here:

http://www.islam-watch.org/MAsghar/WomenIslam.htm

My answer:
Let me quote the actual verse.You have to read the before and the after verses too:

"What! has He taken daughters out of what He himself creates, and granted to
you sons for choice?"

"When news is brought to one of them of (the birth of) what he sets up as a
likeness to (God) Most Gracious, his face darkens, and he is filled with inward grief!"

"Is then one brought up among trinkets, and unable to give a clear account in
a dispute (to be associated with God)?"

"And they make into females angels who themselves serve God. Did they
witness their creation? Their evidence will be recorded, and they will be called to
account!"
(Surah Az-Zukhruf 43:16~19)

The Jahilliyah always said that a daughter/woman is something that should not be kept.They should be killed because for them the women are trinkets and cannot give a clear to the dispute.They said the women like that and they said the women are only for Allah because they assumed Allah as a trinket and cannot gives clear account to the dispute just like they assumed upon women. When Muhammad came,he vanished the laws of the Jahilliyah and prevent the daughters from being killed.

For the verse 2:282.It reads...

"O ye who believe! When ye deal with each other, in transactions involving
future obligations in a fixed period of time, reduce them to writing Let a scribe write down faithfully as between the parties: let not the scribe refuse to write: as God Has taught him, so let him write. Let him who incurs the liability dictate, but let him fear His Lord God, and not diminish aught of what he owes. If they party liable is mentally deficient, or weak, or unable Himself to dictate, Let his guardian dictate faithfully, and get two witnesses, out of your own men, and if there are not two men, then a man and two women, such as ye choose, for witnesses, so that if one of them errs, the other can remind her"

Where got Allah said He hates women?.Where got He said the women forgetfulness?.You can see...he also instructed two men as witnesses because if one of them forgot, the other can remind him.Same goes to the women.When one woman forgot, the other can remind her.Simple!!.

And read the 2:229:

"A divorce is only permissible twice: after that, the parties should either hold
Together on equitable terms, or separate with kindness. It is not lawful for you,
(Men), to take back any of your gifts (from your wives), except when both parties fear that they would be unable to keep the limits ordained by God. If ye (judges) do indeed fear that they would be unable to keep the limits ordained by God, there is no blame on either of them if she give something for her freedom. These are the limits ordained by God; so do not transgress them if any do transgress the limits ordained by God, such persons wrong (Themselves as well as others)."
(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:229)

THINK....Where got Allah instructed the men to behave unjustful over women?.

[ Last edited by eastrun at 18-4-2007 07:42 PM ]

barney50 · Post time 19-4-2007 08:19 AM

Reply #239 eastrun's post

My answer:
Looks like you are being stubborn to read the book and now looks like you don't understand.Please read the book I have suggested to you, so that you can understand better because the book can explain better to you.

Copy the Code

My dear fellow, if the Arabs themselves could not understand do you think it would make sense if I read it? The Quran as scholars put it does not make sense. Such as this verse:

Surah 48:2 says: "That Allah may forgive thee of thy sin that which is past and that which is to come, and may perfect His favor unto thee, and may guide thee on a right path."

"So forgive the sins which I have done in the past or will do in the future, and also those (sins) which I did in secret or in public, and that which You know better than I. None has the right to be worshipped but you". (Hadith al-Bukhari, Vol. 9, p. 403)

Clearly, not only did Muhammad sin in the past, both he and God knew that he would sin in the future. If Muhammad - supposedly the greatest of all prophets - sinned, then why is it strange that other great men of the Bible also had shortcomings? The Biblical stories are far more realistic and encouraging than the Islamic dogma. It says to me that God can - and does - use weak men who nevertheless have a clear "yes" in their hearts toward God.

My answer:
Can you proof to me the originality of the articles you have quoted above?.You can see how those people that don't understand the four witnesses method,twisting the method and create such stories.

Copy the Code

Yeh! That is what Muslim would say when anything against Islam even it is from a Muslim but would agree if it is in support of Islam if comes even from a non Muslim. Very funny specimens these Muslims. Anyway, the article is factual and we do not have to doubt it because it is also in the humanrights commission report. That is enough evidence for us.

My answer:
In any laws, without strong evidences and proofs, you can be accused by the wrongdoings that you never done.Therefore,without strong evidences, no laws can protect you including the secular laws. Can you see how many cases pending which until now cannot be proved?.It is all because lack of evidence.I just cannot accept the way you think.,Furthermore I just curious why you are so busy body thinking about something that have nothing to do with you.

Copy the Code

Think logic. The cases are not pending because of that but because there is not enough judges to hear the cases. Are you following the news or just making up? If lack of evidence it means the police officer who is a Muslim has taken bribes to destroy evidence. That is one of the crucial matter which our justice system is facing. That can also happen in any Islamic courts. Paki akal sebelum mencipta cerita

My answer:
And before you talk about Islamic laws against women, why don't you open your Vedas and see how your scriptures put the women on the level that cannot be acceptable.Like they never existed in the world.
If Islamic laws is prejudice upon women, surely man can escape from the punishment.But,no...Man also being punished when they are proved guilty with strong evidences.

Copy the Code

Fat chance! My dear fellow have you heard of any woman being tried under Vedic law? Don't worry about what you have read in the anti Hindu or Dhalit website that has doctrated version of vedic scriptures but has any Hindu been tried under the vedic laws is the question here. If none then why raise the issue. The problem here is Islam and Muslims are bent on using syariah which is under scrutiny. So, instead of giving logical answers why are you diverting to issues not related to subject.

My answer:
You got him wrong. He never said that he will apply the laws upon Non-Muslims even though the party wins the election.But why are you so stupid?.
The true leader of Islam is Muhammad S.A.W.If he said that the Islamic laws are just applied upon Muslims, then it only applied upon Muslim.You just don't have worry about something that not applied upon you.

Copy the Code

May it is you who is being stupid and stuborn. If PAS wins 2/3 majority in the GE, what sort of system would it implement. What was PAS fighting for all these years? Is PAS going to have two sets of laws again like BN? If that is the case I'd rather live with a known devil then an unknow devil. Tell me dear genius, what laws are applied on non Muslim criminals in Islamic countries like Saudi Arabia? Please give your expertise here.

My answer:
You twisted my word. I said when a new prophet comes, he will brought new laws which re-add and re-confirm the previous laws.That is why you can see the similarity of the laws between religions.I never said that the previous laws cannot make you become a better person.Because the reason new laws were sent down are to make the previous laws stronger and re-add the previous laws to make it suit the current surrounding.That is why I say to you to see why the laws are created..the reason is to make people to prevent themselves from commit wrongdoings.

Copy the Code

Pathetic! What knid of explanation is that? You making your own scholarly reason? If I accept you reason then time has passed because only 600 years after death of Jesus Christ a man calling himself prophet of GOD appeared in the desert country of Mecca to claim his throne and brought new laws and ammend ments to the previous laws of the semitic religion of the Jews. But now it is over 1400 years and such laws are rusty and someone came but the Muslims tortured him, put him in prison and drove his followers away from the region. You make a guess who he is. So, Muslims are not prepared to accept any others becuuase Mohammed said so? Or was the Quran written in his instruction? A BIG QUESTION MARK and I leave it to the Musims to answer.

sambung.....

barney50 · Post time 19-4-2007 08:20 AM

sambung dari #242

My answer:
When I say if the Non-Muslims follow the Holy Quran and they are able
to become a better person.I am not wrong about that because the way to
become a better person also in the Holy Quran.I didn't meant that the
Non-Muslims need to embrace Islam for that.Because Islam never forced
others to embrace the religion.And I have explained this!!.
All this while, what I can say...you are the one who is ego by
saying:"we respect, love and show our appreciation to GOD while Muslims
fear Allah and would kill others to satisfy Allah's ego."

Copy the Code

Are you kidding me about the statement of "Islam neverforced others to embrace"? Better think twise before you say such. Torefresh Muslims mind here is some of the verses:

Sura (9:29) - "Fight those whobelieve not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden whichhath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge thereligion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, untilthey pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselvessubdued." Suras 9 and 5 are the last "revelations" that Muhammadhanded down.

Muslim (1:33) The Messenger of Allahsaid: "I have been commanded to fight against people till they testifythat there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger ofAllah..."

Bukhari (8:387) - "Allah's Apostlesaid, 'I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None hasthe right to be worshipped but Allah.' And if they say so, pray likeour prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then theirblood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere withthem except legally and their reckoning will be with Allah.'".

Now explain to me if Islam does not force others to embrace then whatare those verse doing in the Quran and hadith. Can I find anotherstupid Muslim as you?

My answer:
Certainly you don't know Islam. Fear Him is because we RESPECT
Him.Therefore, we try our best to prevent ourselves from commit
wrongdoings.About killing others...this one I have asked you many
times...show me in the Holy Quran where Allah said kill others,and I
will love you.He never said that.But He said:
"O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and
made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may
despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of
God is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And God has full
knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things)."(Surah Al-Huujurat
49:13)
You just cannot understand!!

Copy the Code

That is why I say the Quran makes no sense. There arethese verses and there are those verses. Why? Beats me! May be they usethem when they are cornered without realizing that the other verses sayotherwise. It is a win win situation. A cunning way to deal with pagansand once they are in the lair it is doomed for life. No wayto complainnor ask any question because you'd be charged for blashpemy. Heads youwin tail I lose. It is you who is confused and do not understand youronw religion. Making stupid statements without going deep intoit.

My answer:
The reason I called you a liar is because you are promised something
and yet you broke the promise.Only a liar will behave like that.All
this while, no doubt you are a liar. In a thread you said you have
married, but in another thread you said you are not.You have twisted
your statements here and there,Are you thinking that the viewers are
stupid and cannot remember what they have read?.You just make yourself
become a fool.

Copy the Code

[color=greenO.K Samrt guy, proof to me where I said I'm not married.If you can then I'm a liar otherswise let everyone know that there is aliar here under the name of eastrun who has no way of defending himselfbut only make false claim here and there. So, now show me where..andwe'll see who is the fool here.

My answer:
Why you only blame Islam?.Ask any followers from any religions.Will
they say that other religions are the truth religions?.For sure the
followers will say that "The religion that we have belief is a true
religion".Either he/she is a Christian or Jews or Buddhist or etc..He
will strongly say that his/her religion is the religion and others are
myth!!.

Copy the Code

Please, if you do not know how to use your words thenadmit and I will leave you alone. You said Islam is the only truereligion in the world. If you had said Islam is one of the truereligions of GOD then I would not have made any remark. Comprehende?So, tell me now, is it the only true religion or one of the truereligions? Answer me before you make another stupidstatement.

My answer:
The agenda of Islam for humankind,I repeat:
"O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and
made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may
despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of
God is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And God has full
knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things)."(Surah Al-Huujurat
49:13)

Copy the Code

Aiyaaaaaah! Do you think the mullas are teaching theseverse to their students? If they had done why are they out therekilling innocnet people? If Allah is well acquainted why order Mohammedto kill? See verse (9:29). Is this verse screwed up inside a vault? Getreal my boy! The Quarn is for conjurors and not for those who lovepeace and harmony.

barney50 · Post time 19-4-2007 12:01 PM

Reply #240 eastrun's post

My answer:
But I ask you...do Islam taught the followers to behave that.Study my religion and you will see that it is no force in Islam, either in embracing it or marriage.You follow a source that is not related with Islamic teaching.What Islam had taught the followers is:
"O ye who believe! Ye are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness, that ye may Take away part of the dower ye have given them,-except where they have been guilty of open lewdness; on the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and Allah brings about through it a great deal of good."(Surah An-Nisa' 4:19)
Islam never taught us to be rough to women blindly.If the Muslims behave like that, it is nothing to do with Islam.Islam never taught to call the women as hyena.

Copy the Code

Denial! Denial!Denial! Yes, that is what you are good for. You deny by giving some meaningless verse to defend but in reality that is not the truth.

Here is the truth:

The Qur抋n likens a woman to a field (tilth), to be used by a man as he wills: 揧our women are a tilth for you (to cultivate) so go to your tilth as ye will

barney50 · Post time 19-4-2007 12:05 PM

sambungan dari #241

My answer:
Let me quote the actual verse.You have to read the before and the after verses too:
"What! has He taken daughters out of what He himself creates, and granted to
you sons for choice?"
"When news is brought to one of them of (the birth of) what he sets up as a
likeness to (God) Most Gracious, his face darkens, and he is filled with inward grief!"
"Is then one brought up among trinkets, and unable to give a clear account in
a dispute (to be associated with God)?"
"And they make into females angels who themselves serve God. Did they
witness their creation? Their evidence will be recorded, and they will be called to
account!"
(Surah Az-Zukhruf 43:16~19)

Copy the Code

Explain dudd! It sounds like crap to me.

My answer:
The Jahilliyah always said that a daughter/woman is something that should not be kept.They should be killed because for them the women are trinkets and cannot give a clear to the dispute.They said the women like that and they said the women are only for Allah because they assumed Allah as a trinket and cannot gives clear account to the dispute just like they assumed upon women. When Muhammad came,he vanished the laws of the Jahilliyah and prevent the daughters from being killed.

Copy the Code

If the above cerse was true how did Kathijah survived to and alter marry an man younger then here whose name was Mohammed? If Muslims want to lie learn the art of lying instead of getting caught in their own lies.

For the verse 2:282.It reads...
"O ye who believe! When ye deal with each other, in transactions involving
future obligations in a fixed period of time, reduce them to writing Let a scribe write down faithfully as between the parties: let not the scribe refuse to write: as God Has taught him, so let him write. Let him who incurs the liability dictate, but let him fear His Lord God, and not diminish aught of what he owes. If they party liable is mentally deficient, or weak, or unable Himself to dictate, Let his guardian dictate faithfully, and get two witnesses, out of your own men, and if there are not two men, then a man and two women, such as ye choose, for witnesses, so that if one of them errs, the other can remind her"
Where got Allah said He hates women?.Where got He said the women forgetfulness?.You can see...he also instructed two men as witnesses because if one of them forgot, the other can remind him.Same goes to the women.When one woman forgot, the other can remind her.Simple!!.[/coe]
[color=green][b]I had posted the verse please skroll to find out. Don't ask silly question without any deep study.[/b][/color]
[code]And read the 2:229:
"A divorce is only permissible twice: after that, the parties should either hold
Together on equitable terms, or separate with kindness. It is not lawful for you,
(Men), to take back any of your gifts (from your wives), except when both parties fear that they would be unable to keep the limits ordained by God. If ye (judges) do indeed fear that they would be unable to keep the limits ordained by God, there is no blame on either of them if she give something for her freedom. These are the limits ordained by God; so do not transgress them if any do transgress the limits ordained by God, such persons wrong (Themselves as well as others)."
(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:229)
THINK....Where got Allah instructed the men to behave unjustful over women?.

Copy the Code

Excuse! Excuse!Excuse! Too many denial and to many excuses. That is what Islam is all about. I have seen enough and I know the truth.

eastrun · Post time 19-4-2007 07:26 PM

1)
My dear fellow, if the Arabs themselves could not understand do you think it would make sense if I read it? The Quran as scholars put it does not make sense. Such as this verse:

Surah 48:2 says: "That Allah may forgive thee of thy sin that which is past and that which is to come, and may perfect His favor unto thee, and may guide thee on a right path."

"So forgive the sins which I have done in the past or will do in the future, and also those (sins) which I did in secret or in public, and that which You know better than I. None has the right to be worshipped but you". (Hadith al-Bukhari, Vol. 9, p. 403)

Clearly, not only did Muhammad sin in the past, both he and God knew that he would sin in the future. If Muhammad - supposedly the greatest of all prophets - sinned, then why is it strange that other great men of the Bible also had shortcomings? The Biblical stories are far more realistic and encouraging than the Islamic dogma. It says to me that God can - and does - use weak men who nevertheless have a clear "yes" in their hearts toward God.

My answer:
Is it a problem when a prophet ask forgiveness from God for what he may have done and for what he would do in the future?.Are you thinking that they are an angel?.They are human. Muhammad is not the only prophet ask forgiveness from God for what he maybe has done or for what he may do in future.

For example, Adam and Jonah..They also asked forgiveness from Allah.So it is not a problem when they ask forgiveness from Allah.You can read the story of Jonah and Adam...until they repented from what they have done...in my beloved scripture The Holy Quran.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2)
Yeh! That is what Muslim would say when anything against Islam even it is from a Muslim but would agree if it is in support of Islam if comes even from a non Muslim. Very funny specimens these Muslims. Anyway, the article is factual and we do not have to doubt it because it is also in the humanrights commission report. That is enough evidence for us.

My answer:
I said that because it has nothing to do with Islamic teaching.You just followed the fake sources and then you proudly presented to me. You make yourself a fool for that.Study Islam first before presenting such article.When you are following a fake article,automatically you are considered as a liar too.I repeat...the article has nothing to do with Islamic teaching!!.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3)
Fat chance! My dear fellow have you heard of any woman being tried under Vedic law? Don't worry about what you have read in the anti Hindu or Dhalit website that has doctrated version of vedic scriptures but has any Hindu been tried under the vedic laws is the question here. If none then why raise the issue. The problem here is Islam and Muslims are bent on using syariah which is under scrutiny. So, instead of giving logical answers why are you diverting to issues not related to subject

My answer:
For example MARRIAGE in Hinduism, which a woman has to pay a dowry in order to get married.Isn't that an old law of Hinduism for woman?.Why is it still implemented today?.

"Kakshivat says he became rich by the father-in-law giving him 10 chariots and maids and 1060 cows during the marriage ceremony" [Rg Ved I.126] [Apte 13]

Furthermore, the woman still don't have any property.YOU CANNOT LIE because my neighbour is an Indian, I am able to ask her.Nd she clarified that

"A wife, a son, and a slave, these three are declared to have no property; the wealth which they earn is (acquired) for him to whom they belong. A Brahmana may confidently seize the goods of (his) Sudra (slave); for, as that (slave) can have no property, his master may take his possessions. [Manu VIII.416-417]

It is happen today my friend.They are so many unjustful matters regarding women that still being implemented in the modern era..

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
.May it is you  who is being stupid and stuborn. If PAS wins 2/3 majority in the GE, what sort of system would it implement. What was PAS fighting for all these years? Is PAS going to have two sets of laws again like BN? If that is the case I'd rather live with a known devil then an unknow devil. Tell me dear genius, what laws are applied on non Muslim criminals in Islamic countries like Saudi Arabia? Please give your expertise here.

My answer:
Take Kelantan as example.Have you heard Chinese or Indian being punished with Islamic laws there?.Never.That is why I said that Nik Aziz never declared to apply Islamic laws upon non-Muslims id he wins the election.And furthermore you can see that the government never punished the non-Muslims with Islamic laws.

In Islamic country, the non-Muslims are punished using secular laws,but for Muslims, the Islamic laws are the first choice, because the Islamic laws are only applied upon the Muslims.That is why I wonder why are you so busy body with something that have nothing to do with you.Stupid!!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4)

Pathetic! What knid of explanation is that? You making your own scholarly reason? If I accept you reason then time has passed because only 600 years after death of Jesus Christ a man calling himself prophet of GOD appeared in the desert country of Mecca to claim his throne and brought new laws and ammend ments to the previous laws of the semitic religion of the Jews. But now it is over 1400 years and such laws are rusty and someone came but the Muslims tortured him, put him in prison and drove his followers away from the region. You make a guess who he is. So, Muslims are not prepared to accept any others becuuase Mohammed said so? Or was the Quran written in his instruction? A BIG QUESTION MARK and I leave it to the Musims to answer.

My answer:
Muhammad came with new and amended laws.And HE ALSO CAME WITH A SCRIPTURE FROM ALLAH TO SUPPORT HIS CLAIMS.After him, never come one person that brought new laws and SCRIPTURE to support what he has brought.Now tell me..who is the person that brought new laws after Muhammad together WITH A SCRIPTURE to support the so called new laws.Answer me!!.A stupid kafir will always remains stupid...furthermore when he is an old kafir.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5)
Are you kidding me about the statement of "Islam neverforced others to embrace"? Better think twise before you say such. Torefresh Muslims mind here is some of the verses:

Sura (9:29) - "Fight those whobelieve not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden whichhath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge thereligion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, untilthey pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselvessubdued."  Suras 9 and 5 are the last "revelations" that Muhammadhanded down.

Muslim (1:33) The Messenger of Allahsaid: "I have been commanded to fight against people till they testifythat there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger ofAllah..."

Bukhari (8:387) - "Allah's Apostlesaid, 'I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None hasthe right to be worshipped but Allah.' And if they say so, pray likeour prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then theirblood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere withthem except legally and their reckoning will be with Allah.'".

Now explain to me if Islam does not force others to embrace then whatare those verse doing in the Quran and hadith. Can I find anotherstupid Muslim as you?

My answer:

That verses came when the enemies insulted the Islam.You see this.Allah never forced the non-Muslims:

"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things."(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:256)

I asked you to read the Holy Quran.But you never listened.Stupid yet stubborn
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[ Last edited by  eastrun at 19-4-2007 08:52 PM ]

eastrun · Post time 19-4-2007 07:30 PM

6)
That is why I say the Quran makes no sense. There arethese verses and there are those verses. Why? Beats me! May be they usethem when they are cornered without realizing that the other verses sayotherwise. It is a win win situation. A cunning way to deal with pagansand once they are in the lair it is doomed for life. No wayto complainnor ask any question because you'd be charged for blashpemy. Heads youwin tail I lose. It is you who is confused and do not understand youronw religion. Making stupid statements without going deep intoit.O.K Samrt guy, proof to me where I said I'm not married.If you can then I'm a liar otherswise let everyone know that there is aliar here under the name of eastrun who has no way of defending himselfbut only make false claim here and there. So, now show me where..andwe'll see who is the fool here.

My answer:

I asked to read the whole Quran so that you can see the whole picture.But you don't.That is why you cannot see the connection between verses.You will never understand if you just pick a verse.You have to read the whole surah or scripture.
So. please do so...Because the verses were sent down between different preiod of time, well..we have discussed about the abrogated verses and why the verses abrogated each other.

"None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that God Hath power over all things?"(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:106)

The statement saying that you are not married is in this thread.But I am not able to show because I don't have time to read one by one.But, let the viewers judge who is the liar.But I am very sure you made such statement and then in another thread, you said you have married for 31 years.
-

[ Last edited by eastrun at 19-4-2007 08:50 PM ]

eastrun · Post time 19-4-2007 08:48 PM

7)
Please, if you do not know how to use your words thenadmit and I will leave you alone. You said Islam is the only truereligion in the world. If you had said Islam is one of the truereligions of GOD then I would not have made any remark. Comprehende?So, tell me now, is it the only true religion or one of the truereligions? Answer me before you make another stupidstatement.

My answer:
As a Muslim, for sure I will say my religion is the true religion, base on my scripture and my prophet.Same goes to the Christian and Jews.They will say the same thing.

You as a Hindu, will you say your religion is a fake religion?.Oh...I forgot..this man has no faith with his own religion and has no faith with his scripture.What a shame.And yet, still trying to comment other's faith.Stupid.Hahaha
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
8)
Aiyaaaaaah! Do you think the mullas are teaching theseverse to their students? If they had done why are they out therekilling innocnet people? If Allah is well acquainted why order Mohammedto kill? See verse (9:29). Is this verse screwed up inside a vault? Getreal my boy! The Quarn is for conjurors and not for those who lovepeace and harmony.

My answer:
You see,...this what happen when you read only a verse of the Holy Quran and when you only read small part of it.See why the verse 9:29 has been sent down to Muhammad.What makes the verse given by ALLAH at that time?.Well...a researcher like you...i think you know that.Read the verse carefully, that verse not applied upon all Christians and Jews.But it applied upon those who fought/insult the religion:

"Fight those who believe not in God nor the Last Day, nor hold that
forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued"(Surah At-Taubah 9:29)

See the bolded words.We fight those who are not subdued and insulted the religion.Because when they stop...we also will stop:

The connection of the verse is here:

"Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power,
including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of God and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom God doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of God, shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly."

"But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards
peace, and trust in God: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things)"
(Surah Al-Anfaal 8:60~61)

Go on..read the whole Quran.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
9)
Denial! Denial!Denial! Yes, that is what you are good for. You deny by giving some meaningless verse to defend but in reality that is not the truth.

Here is the truth:

The Qur抋n likens a woman to a field (tilth), to be used by a man as he wills: 揧our women are a tilth for you (to cultivate) so go to your tilth as ye will

barney50 · Post time 19-4-2007 09:17 PM

Reply #246 eastrun's post

Surah 48:2 says: "That Allah may forgive thee of thy sin that which is
past and that which is to come, and may perfect His favor unto thee,
and may guide thee on a right path."
My answer:
Is it a problem when a prophet ask forgiveness from God for what he may
have done and for what he would do in the future?.Are you thinking that
they are an angel?.They are human. Muhammad is not the only prophet ask
forgiveness from God for what he maybe has done or for what he may do
in future.
For example, Adam and Jonah..They also asked forgiveness from Allah.So
it is not a problem when they ask forgiveness from Allah.You can read
the story of Jonah and Adam...until they repented from what they have
done...in my beloved scripture The Holy Quran.

Copy the Code

So, you admit the most perfect man on earth had sinned? If he had sinned how could he be claimed as the most perfect? Beats me!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My answer:
I said that because it has nothing to do with Islamic teaching.You just
followed the fake sources and the you proudly presented to me. You make
yourself a fool for that.Study Islam first before presenting such
article.When you are following a fake article,automatically you are
considered as a liar too.I repeat...the article has nothing to do with
Islamic teaching!!.

Copy the Code

That was no fake article but fake only to Muslims because it reveals the truth about Islam and Muslims on the whole. So, Muslims like you become fools if you only believe in only good stories about Musims and Islam. It clearly shows Islam is prejudice and bias when comes to the truth. If it has nothing to do with Islamic teaching why then are these happening using reference using hadith and so on?

If it has nothing to do with Islam why are there sucide bombers using the name of Islam and its prophet and Allah? If the Quran and Hadiths are being misinterpreted why are the Imams and Mullas keeping mum. They should call for a fatwa to condemn their act and ban those invlove from using the name of Islam. But does that happen? Please explain.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My answer:
For example MARRIAGE in Hinduism, which a woman has to pay a dowry in
order to get married.Isn't that an old law of Hinduism for woman?.Why
is it still implemented today?.
"Kakshivat says he became rich by the father-in-law giving him 10
chariots and maids and 1060 cows during the marriage ceremony" [Rg Ved
I.126] [Apte 13]

Copy the Code

I ot my sister married and I did not pay any dowry. So where is that law that you speak of? Most Hindus in Malaysia marry off their daughters and no such thing as dowry. You speak of something relate to community issue which has nothing to do with religious laws. Do you see and Hindu laws being impleted by the Indian gorvenment? Worry not of it because there is none. But Islam yes, syariah laws are implemneted in Islamic countries and Musims men are taking advantage of these laws to supressw women and the Taliban in Afghanistan was an example.

You talk about something doctorated verse from the anti Hindu website www.geocities.com/~abdulwahid/hinduism/hindu_women.html. There is no such verse as Rg Ved.1.126. So you are a liar because you followed a liar.

Furthermore, the woman still don't have any property.YOU CANNOT LIE
because my neighbour is an Indian, I am able to ask her.Nd she
clarified that
"A wife, a son, and a slave, these three are declared to have no
property; the wealth which they earn is (acquired) for him to whom they
belong. A Brahmana may confidently seize the goods of (his) Sudra
(slave); for, as that (slave) can have no property, his master may take
his possessions. [Manu VIII.416-417]
It is happen today my friend.They are so many unjustful matters regarding women that still being implemented in the modern era..

Copy the Code

All this does not work my friend. Where is the chapter, is it in 1,2,3,4.? There is no capter 13 so did you anti Hindu buddies created a chapter on their own? Why don't you see this see what it says. site:http://www.geocities.com/lamberdar/misconceptions.html.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My answer:
Take Kelantan as example.Have you heard Chinese or Indian being
punished with Islamic laws there?.Never.That is why I said that Nik
Aziz never declared to apply Islamic laws upon non-Muslims id he wins
the election.And furthermore you can see that the government never
punished the non-Muslims with Islamic laws.
In Islamic country, the non-Muslims are punished using secular laws,but
for Muslims, the Islamic laws are the first choice, because the Islamic
laws are only applied upon the Muslims.That is why I wonder why are you
so busy body with something that have nothing to do with you.Stupid!!

Copy the Code

Again you are showing your stupidity. Kelantan may be an Islamic state but is still under the FC. All crimes are tried by penal code and only matters relating to religion is govern by PAS Islamic laws. But if a Muslim steals he is still tried under the penal code. He cannot opt to be tried under Islamic law. Do you understand that? Don't be so ignorant of policies and politics of the country. What I was saying is very clear. If PAS win the GE and governs the counrty under Islamic law abolishing the FC then what happens to the non non Muslims? Surely they too would come under the Islamic syariah laws.

Don't you have the brain to graps that? Where in the hell does Saudi Arabia has secular law? Please brief be and sow me what secular law they are using. If you cannot just shut up and accept the truth as it is.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My answer:
Muhammad came with new and amended laws.And HE ALSO CAME WITH A
SCRIPTURE FROM ALLAH TO SUPPORT HIS CLAIMS.After him, never come one
person that brought new laws and SCRIPTURE to support what he has
brought.Now tell me..who is the person that brought new laws after
Muhammad together WITH A SCRIPTURE to support the so called new
laws.Answer me!!.A stupid kafir will always remains
stupid...furthermore when he is an old kafir.

Copy the Code

A stupid Musims would always remain a stupid Muslim. Yes, that is what you are. You may believe what the Arabs ahd told but expecting others to believe is their stupidity as well as the coverts of Islam which includes stupis fools like you. Any person with divine qualities are messangers of GOD. We already had such persons in India long after Mohammed. So, you are talking nonsense relating to only the Arab Muslims. Even if there is another Arab born and knows that Islam needs revival do you think the Arab Muslims would keep him alive? You are a moron and so think like a moron.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My answer:
That verses came when the enemies insulted the Islam.You see this.Allah never forced the non-Muslims:
"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from
Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most
trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth
all things."(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:256)
I asked you to read the Holy Quran.But you never listened.Stupid yet stubborn

Copy the Code

Excuse! Excuse! Excuse!. Yes, Muslims have excuse for all the flaws in the Quran. You said no force in Islam or the Quran and I showed you the verse and yet you give excuses. That is stupid and arogant of you. Afraid to admit? And what are these:Sura (9:29)/Muslim (1:33)/Bukhari (8:387). Just there for fun? One stubor Muslims who refuse to accept the truth and love to live in lies for the rest of his life. So be it!

barney50 · Post time 19-4-2007 09:26 PM

Reply #247 eastrun's post

My answer:
I asked to read the whole Quran so that you can see the whole
picture.But you don't.That is why you cannot see the connection between
verses.You will never understand if you just pick a verse.You have to
read the whole surah or scripture.
So. please do so...Because the verses were sent down between
different preiod of time, well..we have discussed about the abrogated
verses and why the verses abrogated each other.
"None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten,
but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that
God Hath power over all things?"(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:106)
The statement saying that you are not married is in this thread.But
I am not able to show because I don't have time to read one by one.But,
let the viewers judge who is the liar.But I am very sure you made such
statement and then in another thread, you said you have married for 31
years.

Copy the Code

Do you want me to be as stupid as you? By reading it you have shown how stupid you had become and you wnat me to join the band wagon. Dream on...

You failed to proof what you had said and again giving excuses. Why would I say I'm still single when I'm married. I'm like you because it is comon practice of you guys to lie to girls of your status. For me I remain the same before and now. I'm proud to say I'm married and it does not pose any problem. But for you it may because by lying you think the other gilr might fall in love with you. Too mahy cases of such that I had come across. Anway it shows very clearly now that you are a true liar trained by you Mullah or ustaz to lie your way inot the Guinness book of world record.

-

blastoff · Post time 19-4-2007 09:41 PM

Anway it shows very clearly now that you are a true liar trained by you Mullah or ustaz to lie your way inot the Guinness book of world record.

I have seen this statement before in CI bod several times ...... This username called Katak Gemuk that loves to trash Islam like to use the same phrase over and over again . Is that U , Barney? In different username?

barney50 · Post time 19-4-2007 10:08 PM

Reply #248 eastrun's post

My answer:
As a Muslim, for sure I will say my religion is the true religion, base on my scripture and my prophet.Same goes to the Christian and Jews.They will say the same thing.
You as a Hindu, will you say your religion is a fake religion?.Oh...I forgot..this man has no faith with his own religion and has no faith with his scripture.What a shame.And yet, still trying to comment other's faith.Stupid.Hahaha

Copy the Code

Showing your stupidity again? If you calim your religion is the only true religion of GOD and all others are myth then I'd say you are folowing a reliion with full of Myths.

The most important stages in [Islam's] history were characterised by the assimilation of foreign influences. ...Its founder, Muhammad, did not proclaim new ideas. He did not enrich earlier conceptions of man 's relation to the transcendental and infinite. ...The Arab Prophet's message was an eclectic composite of religious ideas and regulations. The ideas were suggested to him by contacts, which had stirred him deeply, with Jewish, Christian, and other elements.l08 Ignaz Goldziher .

Arabian Idolatry

It is undoubtedly true that in many passages of the Koran "the Islamic varnish only thinly covers a heathen substratum,"112 as for example in sura 113: "In the name of the merciful and compassionate God. Say: 'I seek refuge in the Lord of the Daybreak, from the evil of what He has created; and from the evil of the night when it comes on; and from the evil of the witches who blow upon knots, and from the evil of the envious when he envies. ' "

Islam owes many of its most superstitious details to old Arabian paganism especially in the rites and rituals of the Pilgrimage to Mecca (see suras 2.153; 22.28-30; 5.1-4; 22.37). We can also find traces of paganism in the names of certain old deities (suras 53.19.20; 71.22.23); in the superstitions connected with jinns; and in old folk tales such as those of Ad and Thamud.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My answer:
You see,...this what happen when you read only a verse of the Holy Quran and when you only read small part of it.See why the verse 9:29 has been sent down to Muhammad.What makes the verse given by ALLAH at that time?.Well...a researcher like you...i think you know that.Read the verse carefully, that verse not applied upon all Christians and Jews.But it applied upon those who fought/insult the religion:

Copy the Code

In the tenth year A.H. Muhammad made his pilgrimage to Mecca, the old shrine of his forefathers, and every detail of superstitious observance which he fulfilled has become the norm in Islam. As Wellhausen says the result is that "we now have the stations of a Calvary journey without the history of the passion. " Pagan practices are explained away by inventing Moslem legends attributed to Bible characters, and the whole is an incomprehensible jumble of fictitious lore.118
Zwemer

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My answer:
Hahahaha...STUPID..the verse 2:223 is for the husband when he sleeps with his wife.The husband can sleep with wife with any style he wants because his wife is halal for him.But not overdo...A wife also has right upon his husband.The connection of the verse is here in the same Surah:

Copy the Code

Saylah it is based on kamasutra. Why truning and twisting the facts. Mohammed was in possession of the kamasutra and so gave the verse to his men as well as for his own use. A very lusty prophet. Instead of teaching spirituality he was indulging in sex all his life. Is that why he had 22 concubines?

barney50 · Post time 19-4-2007 10:09 PM

My answer:
Are you thinking that all women are having money to go and learn martial art.So, the cheapest way is by using your husband as protector.Then, what for a woman married a man and a sister having a brother which much stronger than her?.Are you not protecting your wife or sisters?.Of course you do, because it is your responsibility. So, Islam is not wrong to instruct the husband or the brother to become a protector for the woman.

Copy the Code

Again stupid excuse. Just say Mohammed was not aware that womne could be traind in self defence.

Don't tell me, when you see a woman, you won't feel anything. Don't tell me when you are with your girlfriend, you are not feeling anything.The verse I quote to you is the way to prevent from commit adultery..it is the way you can control your desire.

Copy the Code

Why do I need to feel lusty when I have a becutiful wife with me. Do you mean to say Muslims would fell lusty even when with their sisters? WOW!

Because when you set a vision upon a woman, you will have at least a small feel upon the woman.And that feel will bring you to the worse problem that is adultery.So, the best way is not setting a vision upon a woman.No problem with that.It is logic.

Copy the Code

That is becuase Mohammed did not teach you about spiritualism and meditation. Whhereas our scriptures had thought us to be steadfast on this matters. That is why we stress on spiritualism whereas Islam has none.

How many times i told you.Islam never asked you to commit adultery and being harsh upon woman (rogol and etc).So, if the Muslims do that, don't blame Islam.
"Nor come nigh to adultery: for it is a shameful (deed) and an evil, opening
the road (to other evils)."(Surah Al-Isra' 17:32)

Copy the Code

That is another lie. Adultry was committed when the raiding parties of Mohamemd raped married women. Shame on them
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My answer:
He is a well known scholar who has attended many OPEN debates with the Christian and Jews.He mastered all four books.And by that, he able to proof to them that Muhammad is the prophet and Quran is the final scripture..Read his books or watch his videos.

Copy the Code

Why Deedat did not have any discourse with Hindu saints? That is becuase he knew his position and would go home with head down and tail tucked between his legs.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My answer:
I said it applies to kaum Jahilliah. You never heard about that.Go and learn about them.And Muhammad was sent to guide the Jahilliah to the true path and prevent them from killing their daughters with Allah permission. Khadijah is not among the kaum Jahilliah.After 25 year reasearch, you never heard about them?.Hahaha..So funny...

Copy the Code

You trying to teach a duck to swim? Jahilliah or Jahillah means:"the state of ignorance of the guidance from God. Katijah was Jahillah before marrying Mohammed and after marrying Mohammed. It was after he proclaimed he dreamt of an Angel that Islam was created. Again trying to lie to defent the flwas of Islam.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My answer:
No excuse but evidences. Proving that Islam is justful upon women.That is for sure!!.And you can't deny that.Alhamdullilah
"The Apostle believeth in what hath been revealed to him from his Lord, as
do the men of faith. Each one (of them) believeth in God, His angels, His books, and His apostles. "We make no distinction (they say) between one and another of His apostles." And they say: "We hear, and we obey: (We seek) Thy forgiveness, our Lord, and to Thee is the end of all journeys."(Surah al-baqarah 2:285)

Copy the Code

Is the above verse form your Allah or Mohammed?

Allah

Islam also owes the term "Allah" to the heathen Arabs. We have evidence that it entered into numerous personal names in Northern Arabia and among the Nabatians. It occurs among the Arabs of later times, in theophorous names and on its own. Wellhausen also cites pre-Islamic literature where Allah is mentioned as a great deity. We also have the testimony of the Koran itself where He is recognized as a giver of rain, a creator, and so on; the Meccans only crime was to worship other gods beside Him. Eventually Allah was only applied to the Supreme Deity. "In any case it is an extremely important fact that Muhammad did not find it necessary to introduce an altogether novel deity, but contented himself with ridding the heathen Allah of his companions subjecting him to a kind of dogmatic purification. ...Had he not been accustomed from his youth to the idea of Allah as the Supreme God, in particular of Mecca, it may well be doubted whether he would ever have come forward as the preacher of Monotheism."131

eastrun · Post time 20-4-2007 07:27 PM

1)
So, you admit the most perfect man on earth had sinned? If he had sinned how could he be claimed as the most perfect? Beats me!

My answer:
Yes, because he is a human.Do you think those prophets are angels and not doing any mistakes?.Every time the prophets do the mistakes Allah will remind them immediately and forgive them. Muslims said that all prophets are perfect (maksum), because once they do the mistakes, IMMEDIATELY Allah will remind them.Sorry ya..my religion is full of tolerance, therefore no two prophets are different.All the same.Muhammad is so special because he is the Final Messenger of all..
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2)
That was no fake article but fake only to Muslims because it reveals the truth about Islam and Muslims on the whole. So, Muslims like you become fools if you only believe in only good stories about Musims and Islam. It clearly shows Islam is prejudice and bias when comes to the truth. If it has nothing to do with Islamic teaching why then are these happening using reference using hadith and so on?

If it has nothing to do with Islam why are there sucide bombers using the name of Islam and its prophet and Allah? If the Quran and Hadiths are being misinterpreted why are the Imams and Mullas keeping mum. They should call for a fatwa to condemn their act and ban those invlove from using the name of Islam. But does that happen? Please explain

My answer:
My goodness...in every religion, got followers with Thomas faith and you know that.Those followers with Thomas faith of course won't follow the teaching that has been taught in the religion.And I have revealed to you that in Holy Quran, Allah never asked the followers to commit suicide bombing.Because suicide is killing yourself..not killed because fighting for Allah.

Have you seen around the world that the Mullahs and Imams condemned the act of some Muslims (maybe not Muslim) for using Allah's and Islam name for that?.They did!!.Islam never asked them (the terrorists...if they are Muslims) to do that. So, why you want to blame Islam for that.No doubt that ISLAM is the religion of peace.

And since you also not very sure about the originality of the article which is obviously against Islamic teaching, then shut your old mouth up!!.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3)
I ot my sister married and I did not pay any dowry. So where is that law that you speak of? Most Hindus in Malaysia marry off their daughters and no such thing as dowry. You speak of something relate to community issue which has nothing to do with religious laws. Do you see and Hindu laws being impleted by the Indian gorvenment? Worry not of it because there is none. But Islam yes, syariah laws are implemneted in Islamic countries and Musims men are taking advantage of these laws to supressw women and the Taliban in Afghanistan was an example.

You talk about something doctorated verse from the anti Hindu website www.geocities.com/~abdulwahid/hinduism/hindu_women.html. There is no such verse as Rg Ved.1.126. So you are a liar because you followed a liar.All this does not work my friend. Where is the chapter, is it in 1,2,3,4.? There is no capter 13 so did you anti Hindu buddies created a chapter on their own? Why don't you see this see what it says.site:http://www.geocities.com/lamberdar/misconceptions.html.

My answer:
Since you are one of the Thomas faith followers of religion, for sure you are not paying the dowry for your sister, But for the devotee...example is my neighbor,she did pay the dowry. But it is not my problem whether you want to follow your religion laws or not. Because the laws are just for Hindus.And also not my problem when the Indian government doesn't want to implement laws which have been stated in the Vedas.

About what I have pasted before...regarding the verses in the Vedas...since you like to use that kind of method...so I used the same method,..and I just want to know your reaction.And that is what the Muslims felt when you pasted and made fake explanations upon Quranic verses..And I am surprised that a Thomas faith follower still has faith in his scriptures...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4)
Again you are showing your stupidity. Kelantan may be an Islamic state but is still under the FC. All crimes are tried by penal code and only matters relating to religion is govern by PAS Islamic laws. But if a Muslim steals he is still tried under the penal code. He cannot opt to be tried under Islamic law. Do you understand that? Don't be so ignorant of policies and politics of the country. What I was saying is very clear. If PAS win the GE and governs the counrty under Islamic law abolishing the FC then what happens to the non non Muslims? Surely they too would come under the Islamic syariah laws.

Don't you have the brain to graps that? Where in the hell does Saudi Arabia has secular law? Please brief be and sow me what secular law they are using. If you cannot just shut up and accept the truth as it is.

My answer:
The thing is,Nik Aziz never said that he will implement the Islamic laws upon the non-Muslims.Never said that. And like I said before, Muhammad never instructed the followers to implement the laws upon the non-Muslims.The true leader of Islam is Muhammad, not Nik Aziz...so are you thinking that Muslims will follow Nik Aziz?.

So, if the Muslims do that kind of thing, for sure it is against Islamic teaching.Now, you are attacking the religion using the behavior of the followers, which I think is not suitable at all.Because, you know in each religion, must have those with Thomas faith.Study my religion please...as a beginning use the Holy Quran.

Once again, if Arab Saudi implemented that upon the non-Muslims, it is against Islamic teaching because the laws are just for Muslims and there is no compulsion in Islam.I repeat...that is against Islamic teaching.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5)
A stupid Musims would always remain a stupid Muslim. Yes, that is what you are. You may believe what the Arabs ahd told but expecting others to believe is their stupidity as well as the coverts of Islam which includes stupis fools like you. Any person with divine qualities are messangers of GOD. We already had such persons in India long after Mohammed. So, you are talking nonsense relating to only the Arab Muslims. Even if there is another Arab born and knows that Islam needs revival do you think the Arab Muslims would keep him alive? You are a moron and so think like a moron.

My answer:
You are not answering my question.Show me a prophet or a person that came after Muhammad and brought new laws and A SCRIPTURE to support the laws that he brought..and now you talking nonsense without proving to me the other prophet that came after Muhammad.Before Muhammad, yes there are so many persons with DIVINE QUALITY, but they are not God and they made mistakes also...they are those prophets which have been sent by Allah before Muhammad.

My friend, you have to think that God is always with the prophets.Whatever the enemies do upon them, at last the prophets will still win.Even the prophets finally died, he still able to spread his teaching using the scriptures that he brought from God.

So, a fake prophet will never win and until now no prophet came with a scripture after Muhammad.You failed to proof it.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

eastrun · Post time 20-4-2007 07:40 PM

Excuse! Excuse! Excuse!. Yes, Muslims have excuse for all the flaws in the Quran. You said no force in Islam or the Quran and I showed you the verse and yet you give excuses. That is stupid and arogant of you. Afraid to admit? And what are these:Sura (9:29)/Muslim (1:33)/Bukhari (8:387). Just there for fun? One stubor Muslims who refuse to accept the truth and love to live in lies for the rest of his life. So be it!

My answer:
For those who read a small part of the Quran will say it is an excuse.You have to know why the verse was sent down by Allah.And you have to read the verse carefully because the verse not applied upon ALL People of the Book.It applied on those who fought and insulted the religion. Yes, Islam taught NO FORCE, but when the enemies are over the line by insulting the religion, then you have to act, and that is why the verse is there.Like I said before, Allah sent down the verse according to the surrounding of the period.Just because you quoted a verse and left other verses behind (not reading the Holy Quran), so you cannot see what it is all about.So, the best way is to read THE WHOLE SCRIPTURE.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you want me to be as stupid as you? By reading it you have shown how stupid you had become and you wnat me to join the band wagon. Dream on...

You failed to proof what you had said and again giving excuses. Why would I say I'm still single when I'm married. I'm like you because it is comon practice of you guys to lie to girls of your status. For me I remain the same before and now. I'm proud to say I'm married and it does not pose any problem. But for you it may because by lying you think the other gilr might fall in love with you. Too mahy cases of such that I had come across. Anway it shows very clearly now that you are a true liar trained by you Mullah or ustaz to lie your way inot the Guinness book of world record.

My answer:
No excuse...and your claims are wrong..Go and read the Holy Quran..for better explanation, look for Tafsir Al-Quran.May Allah guides you.

You lied about your status.It happened and it is in the thread.

Do you still remember when we discussed about holding hands with woman?.Which prohibited in Islam?.At that time, you said, you holding hands with your GIRLFRIEND.The words is in here.I will show to you another time.Maybe tomorrow,which I have more time to search the word.And we will see...who is the liar...Just wait.

barney50 · Post time 20-4-2007 08:19 PM

Reply #254 eastrun's post

My answer:
Yes, because he is a human.Do you think those prophets are angels and
not doing any mistakes?.Every time the prophets do the mistakes Allah
will remind them immediately and forgive them. Muslims said that all
prophets are perfect (maksum), because once they do the mistakes,
IMMEDIATELY Allah will remind them.Sorry ya..my religion is full of
tolerance, therefore no two prophets are different.All the
same.Muhammad is so special because he is the Final Messenger of all..

Copy the Code

So, now the most perfect is not perfect as Muslims claimed. Allah did not chose a perfect man to part the messages which means Allah could not make his onw prophet perfect. Something is wrong with Allah. And for your information Mohammed was only a prophet of Islam and not for any others. Don't give me the crap Islam is for all. Islam is not for me nor will I accept it as a religion of GOD. To me a religion of GOD would not display such violence of decapitating the head or and cutting off right arm and right leg. Religion is for spiritual growth and not about punishment and torture.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My answer:
My goodness...in every religion, got followers with Thomas faith and
you know that.Those followers with Thomas faith of course won't follow
the teaching that has been taught in the religion.And I have revealed
to you that in Holy Quran, Allah never asked the followers to commit
suicide bombing.Because suicide is killing yourself..not killed because
fighting for Allah.

Copy the Code

To them is is the same. Dying for Allah in fighting or sucide bombing is the same for these morons. And where did they get the idea or who thought them of such acts is obvious is the religious school.

Have you seen around the world that the Mullahs and Imams condemned the
act of some Muslims (maybe not Muslim) for using Allah's and Islam name
for that?.They did!!.Islam never asked them (the terrorists...if they
are Muslims) to do that. So, why you want to blame Islam for that.No
doubt that ISLAM is the religion of peace.
And since you also not very sure about the originality of the article
which is obviously against Islamic teaching, then shut your old mouth
up!!.

Copy the Code

Condemnimg is one thing and fatwa is another. Where is the fatwa to punish such criminals? Islam is their base for such acts. The hadith is full of it and it gives them the right to act. Are you blind that you cannot see the obvious?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My answer:
Since you are one of the Thomas faith followers of religion, for sure
you are not paying the dowry for your sister, But for the
devotee...example is my neighbor,she did pay the dowry. But it is not
my problem whether you want to follow your religion laws or not.
Because the laws are just for Hindus.And also not my problem when the
Indian government doesn't want to implement laws which have been stated
in the Vedas.

Copy the Code

Then you should not bring up the issue to defend your religion. There is no such laws implemented and Hindus are not worried about it. But Islamic laws are being implemented and that pose a problem for all.

About what I have pasted before...regarding the verses in the
Vedas...since you like to use that kind of method...so I used the same
method,..and I just want to know your reaction.And that is what the
Muslims felt when you pasted and made fake explanations upon Quranic
verses..And I am surprised that a Thomas faith follower still has faith
in his scriptures...

Copy the Code

I do not post fake verses but what is written in the quran and hadith and I have even shown the source where I found. It is al there in the open for all to see and read. It was in those days where ono Muslims did not have excess to the Quran or the hadith but today with the help of internet it is wide open. So, blame your own people for that and not me.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My answer:
The thing is,Nik Aziz never said that he will implement the Islamic
laws upon the non-Muslims.Never said that. And like I said before,
Muhammad never instructed the followers to implement the laws upon the
non-Muslims.The true leader of Islam is Muhammad, not Nik Aziz...so
are you thinking that Muslims will follow Nik Aziz?.

Copy the Code

Understand what he said instead of trying to twist the fact. He said if PAS wrest power in the GE it will implement the Islamic laws in whole of Malaysia. So in that case the cicil laws wil be removed so if that happens how will the non Musims be tried for crimes and other matters? Don't try to show your smartness by being an id......

So, if the Muslims do that kind of thing, for sure it is against
Islamic teaching.Now, you are attacking the religion using the behavior
of the followers, which I think is not suitable at all.Because, you
know in each religion, must have those with Thomas faith.Study my
religion please...as a beginning use the Holy Quran.
Once again, if Arab Saudi implemented that upon the non-Muslims, it is
against Islamic teaching because the laws are just for Muslims and
there is no compulsion in Islam.I repeat...that is against Islamic
teaching.

Copy the Code

Then go and tell the Saudi Government that instead of bull#ting here. We are not fools to listen to such nonsense without a foot hold.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My answer:
You are not answering my question.Show me a prophet or a person that
came after Muhammad and brought new laws and A SCRIPTURE to support the
laws that he brought..and now you talking nonsense without proving to
me the other prophet that came after Muhammad.Before Muhammad, yes
there are so many persons with DIVINE QUALITY, but they are not God and
they made mistakes also...they are those prophets which have been sent
by Allah before Muhammad.

Copy the Code

I do not know about the Arabs mentality and Muslims but what I believe is in our scriptures it has been foretold that GOD will incarnate from time to time to guide mankind to the right path and that is happening in our religion. May divine souls had come in the last two centuries and we are happy with them. If Muslims and others do not adhere to it is not our business because it is left to each individual to make his own choice. That is how our religion works. It does not boast of large following or the only right path. If one needs want spiritual develompment of mind and soul one would seek the right path. If one wants violence and bloodshed then he choses the other path. Simple as that.

My friend, you have to think that God is always with the
prophets.Whatever the enemies do upon them, at last the prophets will
still win.Even the prophets finally died, he still able to spread his
teaching using the scriptures that he brought from God.
So, a fake prophet will never win and until now no prophet came with a scripture after Muhammad.You failed to proof it.

Copy the Code

I told you prophethood was created by the Jews sowe do not adhere to that scheme. We have divine souls promised by GOD.We are happy with that and enjoy our life as it is. You on theotherhand suscribe to that scheme and have to live with that. Very simplefact.

[ Last edited by barney50 at 20-4-2007 08:20 PM ]

eastrun · Post time 20-4-2007 08:20 PM

8)
Arabian Idolatry

It is undoubtedly true that in many passages of the Koran "the Islamic varnish only thinly covers a heathen substratum,"112 as for example in sura 113: "In the name of the merciful and compassionate God. Say: 'I seek refuge in the Lord of the Daybreak, from the evil of what He has created; and from the evil of the night when it comes on; and from the evil of the witches who blow upon knots, and from the evil of the envious when he envies. ' "

Islam owes many of its most superstitious details to old Arabian paganism especially in the rites and rituals of the Pilgrimage to Mecca (see suras 2.153; 22.28-30; 5.1-4; 22.37). We can also find traces of paganism in the names of certain old deities (suras 53.19.20; 71.22.23); in the superstitions connected with jinns; and in old folk tales such as those of Ad and Thamud.

In the tenth year A.H. Muhammad made his pilgrimage to Mecca, the old shrine of his forefathers, and every detail of superstitious observance which he fulfilled has become the norm in Islam. As Wellhausen says the result is that "we now have the stations of a Calvary journey without the history of the passion. " Pagan practices are explained away by inventing Moslem legends attributed to Bible characters, and the whole is an incomprehensible jumble of fictitious lore.118
Zwemer

My answer:
Arabian Idoltary?.

The verses of Surah 113...read carefully:

"In the name of the merciful and compassionate God. Say: 'I seek refuge in the Lord of the Daybreak, from the evil of what He has created; and from the evil of the night when it comes on; and from the evil of the witches who blow upon knots, and from the evil of the envious when he envies. ' "(Surah Al-Falaq 113:1~5)

The Lord of the Day Break is Allah la...He is the one who created the Daybreak.The verses are doa which Allah instructed to recite.

The other verses such as 2:153, where got paganism?.Show me...where?

"O ye who believe! seek help with patient perseverance and prayer; for God
is with those who patiently persevere."(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:153)

Have a looked in other verses..never once ALLAH asked to WORSHIP OTHERS beside Him.Yes, he taught the rituals, but He asked you to WORSHIP HIM.Not worship the Kaabah or Black Stone...Have a look in the Holy Quran before you present the verses to me..Silly Hindu

And yes...the Islam does not commit adoltery until now.We don't set partner besides him
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
9)
Saylah it is based on kamasutra. Why truning and twisting the facts. Mohammed was in possession of the kamasutra and so gave the verse to his men as well as for his own use. A very lusty prophet. Instead of teaching spirituality he was indulging in sex all his life. Is that why he had 22 concubines?

My answer:
The verse not only for the men...I repeat..wife also have right upon his husband, to sleep together...See this:

"Permitted to you, on the night of the fasts, is the approach to your wives.
They are your garments and ye are their garments. God knoweth what ye used to do secretly among yourselves; but He turned to you and forgave you; so now associate with them, and seek what God Hath ordained for you, and eat and drink,until the white thread of dawn appear to you distinct from its black thread; then complete your fast Till the night appears; but do not associate with your wives while ye are in retreat in the mosques. Those are Limits (set by) God: Approach not nigh thereto. Thus doth God make clear His Signs to men: that they may learn self-restraint"(SURAH AL-BAQARAH 2:187)

Muhammad has no concubines, but he has wives which are halal for him to sleep with.So, use the RIGHT WORD.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10)
Again stupid excuse. Just say Mohammed was not aware that womne could be traind in self defence.

My answer:
Not all women are willing to be trained.Then, what for you have brothers and husband?.It is true..because that is the role of your brothers and husband.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
11)
Why do I need to feel lusty when I have a becutiful wife with me. Do you mean to say Muslims would fell lusty even when with their sisters? WOW!

My answer:
Not only Muslims, but every human will have that feeling, unless he is a gay.You have a wife?.Or a girlfriend...hmm...liar...just wait and see...I will show your word.Your wife must be really frustrated.Hehehehe
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
12)
That is becuase Mohammed did not teach you about spiritualism and meditation. Whhereas our scriptures had thought us to be steadfast on this matters. That is why we stress on spiritualism whereas Islam has none.

My answer:
Who said?.See this:

"Recite what is sent of the Book by inspiration to thee, and establish regular
Prayer: for Prayer restrains from shameful and unjust deeds; and remembrance of God is the greatest (thing in life) without doubt. And God knows the (deeds) that ye do"(Surah Al-Ankabut 29:45)

The Prayer will make you remember Allah and prevent you from commit wrongdoings.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

eastrun · Post time 20-4-2007 08:25 PM

13)
Why Deedat did not have any discourse with Hindu saints? That is becuase he knew his position and would go home with head down and tail tucked between his legs.

My answer:
Got...go and search for that...both video and book..His book is Hindusm to Islam
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
14)
You trying to teach a duck to swim? Jahilliah or Jahillah means:"the state of ignorance of the guidance from God. Katijah was Jahillah before marrying Mohammed and after marrying Mohammed. It was after he proclaimed he dreamt of an Angel that Islam was created. Again trying to lie to defent the flwas of Islam.

My answer:
Khadijah was not among them.Before Islam,Jesus teaching existed.So, those who followed Jesus's teaching, that is woship Allah his God and Our God,not considered as Jahilliah.It is when Muhammad came and restore the teaching which has been distorted, then those who rejected them, called as Jahilliah.At the time of Jesus, those who rejected him, we also called him Jahiliah.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

barney50 · Post time 20-4-2007 08:41 PM

Reply #257 eastrun's post

My answer:
Arabian Idoltary?.
The verses of Surah 113...read carefully:
"In the name of the merciful and compassionate God. Say: 'I seek refuge
in the Lord of the Daybreak, from the evil of what He has created; and
from the evil of the night when it comes on; and from the evil of the
witches who blow upon knots, and from the evil of the envious when he
envies. ' "(Surah Al-Falaq 113:1~5)
The Lord of the Day Break is Allah la...He is the one who created the
Daybreak.The verses are doa which Allah instructed to recite.
The other verses such as 2:153, where got paganism?.Show me...where?
"O ye who believe! seek help with patient perseverance and prayer; for God
is with those who patiently persevere."(Surah Al-Baqarah 2:153)
Have a looked in other verses..never once ALLAH asked to WORSHIP OTHERS
beside Him.Yes, he taught the rituals, but He asked you to WORSHIP
HIM.Not worship the Kaabah or Black Stone...Have a look in the Holy
Quran before you present the verses to me..Silly Hindu
And yes...the Islam does not commit adoltery until now.We don't set partner besides him

Copy the Code

But you must remember that before Islam the pagans had no scripture and Mohammed schemed the idea of incorperating his belief and those of the Jews and Christians and come up with what he called Islam. See for your self what was discovered by archologist during their excavation in Mecca.

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Sources/Allah/hazor2.gif

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Sources/Allah/hazor1.jpg

Figure 1: (a) A close-up of the stelae temple, showing all the stelae, the statue and the offering table. (b) The central stele with the relief.

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Sources/Allah/hureida_moon.jpg
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My answer:
The verse not only for the men...I repeat..wife also have right upon his husband, to sleep together...See this:
"Permitted to you, on the night of the fasts, is the approach to your wives.
They are your garments and ye are their garments. God knoweth what ye
used to do secretly among yourselves; but He turned to you and forgave
you; so now associate with them, and seek what God Hath ordained for
you, and eat and drink,until the white thread of dawn appear to you
distinct from its black thread; then complete your fast Till the night
appears; but do not associate with your wives while ye are in retreat
in the mosques. Those are Limits (set by) God: Approach not nigh
thereto. Thus doth God make clear His Signs to men: that they may learn
self-restraint"(SURAH AL-BAQARAH 2:187)
Muhammad has no concubines, but he has wives which are halal for him to sleep with.So, use the RIGHT WORD.

Copy the Code

That is what you say and that is what Muslims believe. So be it.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My answer:
Not all women are willing to be trained.Then, what for you have
brothers and husband?.It is true..because that is the role of your
brothers and husband.

Copy the Code

That is why I say when changes takes place certain laws needed to be discarded. You cannot dwell in rotting matters. It wil only give bad odour.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My answer:
Not only Muslims, but every human will have that feeling, unless he is
a gay.You have a wife?.Or a girlfriend...hmm...liar...just wait and
see...I will show your word.Your wife must be really frustrated.Hehehehe

Copy the Code

Silly boy! Ofcourse my wife was my girlfriend 35 years ago before I married her. You are not so smart as you think you are. Lust is all in the mind and if you do not know how to control then it would happen as what Mohammed did by marrying so many wives. It clearly shows he had no spiritual training nor did Allah teach him about it. That is why he had no control and so are Muslims men. That is why I say the Quran contains nothing for spiritual learning and mind control.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My answer:
Who said?.See this:
"Recite what is sent of the Book by inspiration to thee, and establish regular
Prayer: for Prayer restrains from shameful and unjust deeds; and
remembrance of God is the greatest (thing in life) without doubt. And
God knows the (deeds) that ye do"(Surah Al-Ankabut 29:45)
The Prayer will make you remember Allah and prevent you from commit wrongdoings.