Untold History : Johor Battery - The Biggest Guns in the East (P13.. WTF??)

halimi78

PLAUSABLE FACT

Ketiga2 Meriam Besar ini hanya boleh pusing 270 Degree - Sebab, Sultan JOhor tak nak meriam ni point out to his territory.. hehee.. Johor area was out of their range... and British tak boleh buat ape atas restriction Sultan Ibrahim..

yg tu isu yg lom selesai.. patut selesaikan yg tu dulu br masuk yg kat mana spent 400k tu..

yg johor area out of range pong dah bincangkan.. nape x betulkan?
xke ini yg menyumbangkan salah maklumat yg ujud kat google?

halimi78

dengan donation tu je boleh cover keje2 yg terbengkalai dorang

adakah bila donation tu ada.. peruntukan kewangan kerajaan british potong?
adakah bila sultan donate.. kerajaan british x kuar duit dah nak siapkan..
ni yg nak tgk dlm perincian pbelanjaan cam utk 100k tu..

utk stage 1.. yg approved 1928.. estimation utk kos projek melibatkan capital cost 810500 dan 64600 recurring cost scr tahunan..

unekspekted_III

yg tu isu yg lom selesai.. patut selesaikan yg tu dulu br masuk yg kat mana spent 400k tu..

y ...
halimi78 Post at 27-11-2010 01:05

i'm collecting data to suit your request.

but, don't deny the fact yg 400k tu cukup to construct 5 new guns. it is obviously reported.
   

halimi78

but, don't deny the fact yg 400k tu cukup to construct 5 new guns. it is obviously reported.
unekspekted_III Post at 27-11-2010 10:03

mana report tu? kata dah obvious... kalu dah obvious aku x tanya dah...
ko xpaham ke apa aku cakap tu... ada masalah pemahaman ke apa?

ke main reply je? sikit2 konon org lain ni je yg in denial..

kan aku dah cakap.. yg ko bawak tu kertas cadangan.. komiti mcadangkan perbelanjaan..
masih perlukan kelulusan.. kabinet yg luluskan.. sama ke kertas cadangan dgn kelulusan kabinet tu?

agak2 brp lama nak compile data yg aku request sblm ni?
sbb isu dah lama.. dr awal tred nih bukak lg.. ko patut aware pasal tu..

halimi78

aritu aku dah post harbor defense board punyaestimation kos utk pasang 77 new batteris n abandonment..

Its plan called for the abandonment of 128 obsolete and obsolescent seacoast batteries as soon as the 77 new batteries were installed. Thereafter, too, coastal defenses could be manned with substantially fewer troops. The board estimated that the whole program would require three years to complete and would cost about $82,000,000

ni lak estimation utk thn 1938.. seinci lbh bsr dr yg kat singapore tu..

16 inch Coastal Defense Gun M1919 -  The estimated cost of the gun and barbette was $520,000 in 1938..

halimi78

16in coastal gun cost 300,000 dollars, this is just literally just the gun

16in shell 1,000 dollars
14in shell 700 dollars
12in shell 500 dollars

400,000 to emplace one 16in gun or howitzer, heavily fortified auxiliaries like magazines, power plants but gun in the open
500-600,000 for 16in gun emplacement built on an inaccessible location like an island
800,000 for 16in disappearing gun emplacement– complete with auxiliaries, obsolete except for special roles, but still being finished
630-750,000 for 4 x 12in gun emplacements with auxiliaries (cost varies with locations)

156,000 for 16in howitzer emplaced in the open with only lightly fortified, dispersed auxiliaries

tu thn 1921.. 16-inch..

alphawolf

So.. moralnye.. jgn pecaye ape yg korang jumpe di internet..
unekspekted_III Post at 25-11-2010 16:02

Point taken...tapi termasuk ko jugak la kan sebab sebelum ni ko jugak yang kata 2 meriam aje.....oppps bukan ko kata, sumber yang ko petik kata....

alphawolf

UNKNOW TO US.. WWII start 1939.. bukan 1942... and bibit2 perang start sejak 1931...

unekspekted_III Post at 26-11-2010 11:01

Setahu aku la kan, ada sorang sahabat ni kan...tapi dalam thread lain la kan....MATI2 kata WW2 mula 1942...dia kata yang dari 1939 sampai 1941 tu cuma European War aje......

unekspekted_III

Setahu aku la kan, ada sorang sahabat ni kan...tapi dalam thread lain la kan....MATI2 kata WW2 m ...
alphawolf Post at 28-11-2010 08:20

bebet2 wwII starting i 1931.. with invasion of china in the east

alphawolf

OK bila aku baca dokumen tu 400k tu ialah untuk "completion of 15" gun batteries..." dan baki 100k untuk "meet the cost of accelerating the preparation of the second and third landing grounds...".

--> menyiapkan bateri meriam 15" bukan "MEMBINA". Sumber kedua pula kata Kabinet British beri kelulusan bina Fasa 1 (3 laras meriam) pada April 1933. Pada Julai 1935, kelulusan diberi untuk Fasa 2 (2 biji meriam)...dan berdasarkan minit tu boleh kita kata bajet untuk 3 biji meriam pertama lulus 1933 dan baki 2 lagi meriam lulus 1935 setelah mendapat hadiah daripada Sultan?

Perlu diingat, membina "battery" bukan semata2 'beli' meriam...fasiliti lain2 perlu diambil kira seperti bunker peluru, sistem elektrik, sistem air dan lain2 lagi....

unekspekted_III

tu thn 1921.. 16-inch..
halimi78 Post at 27-11-2010 23:51

ko nak bagi contoh tu.. kasi laa yg elok sikit... pound sterling dgn dollar mane laa same..

anyway... it is obvious.. in original record says 400k is for 5 guns.. = and.. yg buat document tu.. bukannye bodo sangat.. klu nak buat budget pun biar laa masuk akal.. klu dorang ckp 400k is for 5 guns.. makenye, sudah ade estimation.. - kalau itu budget laa

tapi.. those document is for war office and war office takde kene mengene dgn cabinet utk meluluskan sesuatu.. cabinet disolved during the war

unekspekted_III

aku pelik... sudah ade original document pun nak argue, hanye dgn bersandarkan buku yg ditulis 50 years lepas perang...

mcm2 jenis orang dlm ni..

alphawolf

Masalahnya dokumen tu sendiri kata 'menyiapkan'...bukan membina...tapi satu point, dia tak cakap 400k tu pecahan dia camne......meriam berapa, bunker berapa, paip berapa, jamban berapa....

unekspekted_III

Masalahnya dokumen tu sendiri kata 'menyiapkan'...bukan membina...tapi satu point, dia tak cakap 400 ...
alphawolf Post at 28-11-2010 08:47

'gun batteries' tak pakai jembatan   hahahahahahaaaaaa

5 bijik meriam besi je.. buat aerodrome dgn airstrip pn cukup 100k... ni kan pulak meriam

alphawolf

Masa perang, ada empat airfield kat Singapore - Tengah, Seletar, Kallang ngan Sembawang. Kallang merangkap lapangan terbang awam. Rasa aku Sembawang siap sekali dengan Naval Base. Jadi dua lagi yang tak siap tu Tengah dengan Seletar. Tengah cuma btul-betul siap pada 8 Disember 1941!

bro_kr

cabinet disolved during the war
unekspekted_III Post at 28-11-2010 08:38

Dari mana dapat info / idea ni?

alphawolf

Kabinet British TIDAK DIBUBARKAN secara 'biasa' masa Perang Dunia Kedua, cuma komposisi aje berubah ala-ala rombakan. Cuma rombakan masa perang lain sikit, sebab melibatkan semua parti politik termasuk pembangkang

unekspekted_III

Kabinet British TIDAK DIBUBARKAN secara 'biasa' masa Perang Dunia Kedua, cuma komposisi aje berubah  ...
alphawolf Post at 28-11-2010 11:08

thus dinamekan 'war cabinet' and takde house of common mcm biase

halimi78

Reply 372# unekspekted_III



   bai.. estimation cost utk 16-inch tu thn 1921.. ko bukak la arkib senat US..

kalo ko nak kata nilai usd x valid.. yg ko pegi quote rege battery drew yg thn 1888 dlm usd tu bulih plak?

xpe.. klu malas.. aku tolong pastekan..

http://www.web4homes.com/rendezvous/artillery.htm

8" gun at Battery Wallace cume 14,000.00 jee... 15" punyi lagi laaaa.. takkan sampai 100,000.00 satu kot??? kan??

pehal bai? ko kan yg suruh aku kira kan... utk justify apa ko ckp kan...

so.. gunekan laa inflation and interest factor.. xkan tu pun aku nak ajar kot.. hehehee

xkan bila aku bg dlm usd xleh.. kira la sdiri..

halimi78

aku pelik... sudah ade original document pun nak argue, hanye dgn bersandarkan buku yg ditulis 50 ye ...
unekspekted_III Post at 28-11-2010 08:39

ko pasti sume buku tu tulis 50 thn lepas?