Contradictions in the bible

just to sidetrack back to HALAL issues.. i hope u the guy who puts little hala stickers on everything is happy to stick some more stickers onto US beef.

bon apetit.

Jukebox

:re: :re: :re:

Don't change the subject, that Halal debate has long gone about 3 pages back...answer me of your christmas goodies in the 'Merry Christmas' thread where you claimed you had answered in full...

[ Last edited by Jukebox on 29-12-2003 at 12:31 AM ]

Jukebox

64. John the Baptist was Elias
          Matt 11:14
         John the Baptist was not Elias
          John 1:21

     65. The father of Joseph, Mary's husband was Jacob
          Matt 1:16
         The father of Mary's husband was Heli
          Luke 3:23

     66. The father of Salah was Arphaxad
          Gen 11:12
         The father of Salah was Cainan
          Luke 3:35,36

sonny~~

MODERATOR JUKEBOX SIRE

this topic is interestin
n u bet me wanna follow it
so's the others i must say
but u're killin me our appetide coz u didnt state who u're replyin to
ie who say wot, who u reply to
so plz have the courtesy to do so
tq  :bg:

peace

Jukebox

I think it's obvious that i was replyin to whitepig sonny ;)

Jukebox

67. There were fourteen generations from Abraham to David
          Matt 1:17
         There were but thirteen generations from Abraham to David
          Matt 1:2-6

     68. There were fourteen generations from the Babylonian captivity
         to Christ.
          Matt 1:17
         There were but thirteen generations from the Babylonian      
         captivity to Christ
          Matt 1:12-16

     69. The infant Christ was taken into Egypt
          Matt 2:14,15,19,21,23
         The infant Christ was not taken into Egypt
          Luke 2:22, 39

Matthew 1

The Genealogy of Jesus

1 A record of the genealogy of Jesus Christ the son of David, the son of Abraham:

2 Abraham was the father of Isaac,
          Isaac the father of Jacob,
          Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers,
3 Judah the father of Perez and Zerah, whose mother was Tamar,
          Perez the father of Hezron,
          Hezron the father of Ram,
4 Ram the father of Amminadab,
          Amminadab the father of Nahshon,
          Nahshon the father of Salmon,
5 Salmon the father of Boaz, whose mother was Rahab,
          Boaz the father of Obed, whose mother was Ruth,
          Obed the father of Jesse,
6 and Jesse the father of King David.
David was the father of Solomon, whose mother had been Uriah's wife,
7 Solomon the father of Rehoboam,
          Rehoboam the father of Abijah,
          Abijah the father of Asa,
8 Asa the father of Jehoshaphat,
          Jehoshaphat the father of Jehoram,
          Jehoram the father of Uzziah,
9 Uzziah the father of Jotham,
          Jotham the father of Ahaz,
          Ahaz the father of Hezekiah,
10 Hezekiah the father of Manasseh,
          Manasseh the father of Amon,
          Amon the father of Josiah,
11 and Josiah the father of Jeconiah[1] and his brothers at the time of the exile to Babylon.
12 After the exile to Babylon:
          Jeconiah was the father of Shealtiel,
          Shealtiel the father of Zerubbabel,
13 Zerubbabel the father of Abiud,
          Abiud the father of Eliakim,
          Eliakim the father of Azor,
14 Azor the father of Zadok,
          Zadok the father of Akim,
          Akim the father of Eliud,
15Eliud the father of Eleazar,
          Eleazar the father of Matthan,
          Matthan the father of Jacob,
16 and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

17 Thus there were fourteen generations in all from Abraham to David, ..
.....

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Hey Jukes,
when u copy and paste these do u actually count???

if u count from ABRAHAM to DAVID inclusively using the above verses didn't u get 14? i suggest you use not only your fingers BUT also your toes.

Jukebox

It's the bible that makes the counting not me.... ;)

Jukebox

71. Christ preached his first sermon on the mount
          Matt 5:1,2
         Christ preached his first sermon on the plain
          Luke 6:17,20

     72. John was in prison when Jesus went into Galilee
          Mark 1:14
         John was not in prison when Jesus went into Galilee
          John 1:43/ John 3:22-24

     73. Christ's disciples were commanded to go forth with a staff   
         and sandals
          Mark 6:8,9
         Christ's disciples were commanded to go forth with neither
         staffs nor sandals.
          Matt 10:9,10

where is the discrepancy.... ???? one verse say take nothing more/extras but just wear your own sandals.... the other verse says the same except "don't  take extra stuff plus extra sandals in the bag".

If the 12 disciples write the same stuff in EXACTLY the same words and same phrase - You, as in Jukes, WILL SAY they are copycating each other. If they write their own testimony in slightly different manner - you say they are all contradictory.

READ YOUR BIBLE VERSES B4 u paste them here !



........................
Jesus Sends Out the Twelve
MARK 6
7 Then Jesus went around teaching from village to village. Calling the Twelve to him, he sent them out two by two and gave them authority over evil[2] spirits.
8 These were his instructions: "Take nothing for the journey except a staff--no bread, no bag, no money in your belts. 9 Wear sandals but not an extra tunic. 10 Whenever you enter a house, stay there until you leave that town. 11 And if any place will not welcome you or listen to you, shake the dust off your feet when you leave, as a testimony against them."

............................
MATTHEW 10

Sending Out the Twelve
(2) 5 These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: "Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. 6But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as you go, preach, saying, "The kingdom of heaven is at hand.' 8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead,[3] cast out demons. Freely you have received, freely give. 9 Provide neither gold nor silver nor copper in your money belts, 10 nor bag for your journey, nor two tunics, nor sandals, nor staffs; for a worker is worthy of his food.

Jukebox

MARK 6
9 Wear sandals but not an extra tunic

MATTHEW 10
9 Provide neither gold nor silver nor copper in your money belts, 10 nor bag for your journey, nor two tunics, nor sandals, nor staffs; for a worker is worthy of his food.

'nor two tunics' and 'not an extra tunic (outer garment without sleeves of knee lenght) means more than 1 (makes sense) and why on earth would the 12 of them need extra sandals?  'staffs' means walking stick, how would one bag walking sticks while having another on hand (if you mean extra)? common sense ler..

in relation to this verse, it was said bag no extra tunics...not extra sandals & staffs but NO sandals & staffs

[ Last edited by Jukebox on 1-1-2004 at 12:35 AM ]

sonny~~

Originally posted by Jukebox at 2003-12-30 12:48 AM:
I think it's obvious that i was replyin to whitepig sonny ;)

r u replyin to WHITEPIG from pg 1 to 5?
when am interested, i read from a to z, not the last page only.  thats like makin assumptions.  c?  :re:

Jukebox .....actually they know bout the bible  contradiction ...its very clear for them. do you think they will change a direction?.....they stuck in the middle, cannot do anything .....same goes if we ask pope bout this ....actually he knows which part was wrong or right . Do you imagine, if he make a statement to the world bout this contradiction sure christianity collapse ....what they can do telan aje lah ...pahit pun pahit lah, sikit sikit boleh tepis tu cuba la tepis

Yunus,
pls use smaller letters we are not short sighted like u.

...........................
7 earths?

Sura 65:12 reads, "It is God who hath created seven heavens and as many earths." We would love to know where the other six earths are. If these refer to the planets in our solar system, then they are short by two (and now possibly three).



Jinns & Shooting stars:

Meteors, and even stars are said to be missiles fired at eavesdropping Satans and jinn who seek to listen to the reading of the Qur'an in heaven, and then pass on what they hear to men in suras 37:6-10; 55:33-35; 67:5; & 72:6-9.

How are we to understand these suras? Can we believe indeed that Allah throws meteors, which are made up of carbon dioxide or iron-nickel, at non- material devils who steal a hearing at the heavenly council?

Jukebox

Originally posted by sonny~~ at 2004-1-1 05:51 PM:
r u replyin to WHITEPIG from pg 1 to 5?
when am interested, i read from a to z, not the last page only.  thats like makin assumptions.  c?  :re:

My replies that did not mention any nicknames would be towards whitepig, otherwise it'll be towards someone else and i'd mention their nicknames or include their questions (like yours). and starting from page 3 i think will be towards whitepig only...that's why i said it's obvious.

Jukebox

Originally posted by whitepig at 2004-1-2 11:57 AM:
Yunus,
pls use smaller letters we are not short sighted like u.

And i too would appreciate if you use smaller letters in your replies as well as apposed to your earlier 2 replies towards me. I'm not wearing any specs by the way...

your  reply

7 earths?

Sura 65:12 reads, "It is God who hath created seven heavens and as many earths." We would love to know where the other six earths are. If these refer to the planets in our solar system, then they are short by two (and now possibly three).


At-Talaq 65:12

Allah is He Who created seven Firmaments and of the earth a similar number. Through the midst of them (all) descends His Command: that ye may know that Allah has power over all things, and that Allah comprehends all things in (His) Knowledge.

Did you create your own translations? And find a dictionary to find out what's the meaning of 'Firmaments' as it's self explanatory with regards to the verse

As for your next question, i'll have the answer for you tommorow as i'm not free at the moment but by taking a glance at your question....again evidently you didn't take the time to read all of those verses

Jukebox

Your reply whitepig

Jinns & Shooting stars:

Meteors, and even stars are said to be missiles fired
at eavesdropping Satans and jinn who seek to listen to
the reading of the Qur'an in heaven, and then pass on
what they hear to men in suras 37:6-10; 55:33-35;
67:5; & 72:6-9.

How are we to understand these suras? Can we believe
indeed that Allah throws meteors, which are made up of
carbon dioxide or iron-nickel, at non- material devils
who steal a hearing at the heavenly council?

Meaning man knows more than God? like you...is that you are saying? Those are secrets that a man like me wouldn't understand as all revelations were passed on by Gabriel through the instruction of Allah to Muhammad pbuh. In summary, it tells of the frail attempt of the jinns (satan) to eave drops of what's happening in the heaven and how they were chased away.

Up till now, does man ever succeeded to travel beyond the stars? Even the probe sent to Mars lately were unable to send back signals back to earth.

Jukebox

74. A woman of Canaan besought Jesus
          Matt 15:22
         It was a Greek woman who besought Him
          Mark 7:26

     75. Two blind men besought Jesus
          Matt 20:30
         Only one blind man besought Him
          Luke 18:35,38

     76. Christ was crucified at the third hour
          Mark 15:25
         Christ was not crucified until the sixth hour
          John 19:14,15

Originally posted by Gray at 2003-12-5 12:17 AM:
Winternights, the bible was never originally written in the English language, it's not until in the 17th century that the bible was translated by the order of of King James. Before , the bible was written in Greek and at that time the bible was only available to monks, priests and it is chained to the walls of the church by the order of the Roman Christian church.

By your own words, the english language evolves. What about the early bibles that was written in Greek for more than 1600 years (from Genesis to Revelation)? During that time, surely the greek language too evolves and does all the monks and priests  in between that period reads Greek???

If monks and priests can't refer to the bibles because of being iliterate to Greek, how could they spread the teachings of God? And when finally King James ordered for the translations of the bible, how accurate were they in their translation in translating ancient Greek languages.

I studied both the bible and Quran because i want to find the truth, then only i believe that would i found the true religion and that is Islam. The Quran was transcended in Arabic and shall stay that way till the end of time, hence it will forever be kept away from corruption. insya allah

Words and wisdoms of god can't be taken lightly and when verses are made to change, added and removed by man, what is there left? God made several warnings  of not to change and manipulate his words.

1 Corinthians 14:33
For God is not the author of confusion

Are you sure the English version of bibles still contains the original words of the Torah and Gospel (i don't trust Paul's and the apostles letters)?

Gray,

Sorry for the late reply, my exams are just round the corner. Getting back to your post, no the Bible was not written in English. As I have mentioned however, that there are available texts(Dead Sea Scrolls, Septuagint,Peshitta, Philoxenian and many more).

Each language I believe goes through a process of development or perhaps evolution. If you search thoroughly, you will find that the many available ancient texts corresponds with the meanings of the present day English translations of the Bible, and it is noteworthy to mention that these texts are often in different languages. This to a certain extent, gives integrity(although I am aware that this is subjected to quite a number of rebuttals coming from, none too surprisingly, from the Islamic community) to the present day Bible. This is contrary to the Koran which Muslims claimed to have descended only in Arabic and that it was present during the time of Muhammad although Islamic references themselves have said otherwise.

Your statement: Words and wisdoms of god can't be taken lightly and when verses are made to change, added and removed by man, what is there left? God made several warnings  of not to change and manipulate his words.
-->As I understand, during the Uthmanic reign, the compilation of the Koran was headed by a committee led by Zaid b. Thabith. The result being a 'final' product of the Koran, however this did not suit well with some companions of Muhammad such as Ibn Masood and Ali Ibn Abi Talib. Ibn Masood(Sahih al-Muslim), an apparant leading authority in Koranic text had his own version of the Koran and friction appeared between the caliph and him in regards to the two conflicting texts(refer to Ibn al-Athir, Kamil, Vol III 86-87). You could refer to Kitab al-Masahif by Ibn Abi Dawood for your own reading and conclusions.

Your quote: Are you sure the English version of bibles still contains the original words of the Torah and Gospel (i don't trust Paul's and the apostles letters)?
-->They do not contain the original WORDS but they contain the original MEANINGS of the Torah and the NT. I'm surprised that your personal mistrust for Paul and the apostles led to your rejection of the Bible. If you are already prejudiced as such, then it will of little point in continuing any 'rational and "objective" mindset'(as always quoted by Muslims) discussion.

Jukebox,

I believe that many have attempted to explain these 'contradictions' but since quite a few Muslims do not seem to pay heed(I have tried it, way back on page 2 of this thread), naturally the vigour for further attempts will definitely be dampened.

If you want to believe that Islam is the correct way, then by all means believe it and be a good Muslim. No one is stopping you...or infact, anybody. However, if you wish to embark on the path of criticising or shall I put it in a polite way, commenting on other faiths, could you please at least have the ability to accept what has been explained?

This is NOT a competition to see who can explain what and how much.