Truth.8 replied at 16-2-2015 03:05 PM
how u know professionale theif not interested learing skills? maybe in other country got lah..but you i never heard of it...again you makind own assumption..hence your prophet who is un learn....claime it was from god...any proof for his claim??
LOL , do you know what is by definition 'professional thief'? You have comprehension problems. If you don't know what 'professional thief' means , find out first before arguing like someone who appears high on drugs. Asking why a professional thief is not interested in other skill is like asking a bachelor to whom is he married.
First you ask whether Prophet Muhammad(saw) ever thought of teaching skill sets to convicts. When pointed out the stupidity of the question in reference to the bible, you now change topic to any proof that Hadd punishment is from Allah. Hadd punishment is in the Quran and we muslims believe it is the word of Allah. In fact the Quran state that it is the word of Allah whereas the bible has no statement that it is the word of the Christian God. However you in trying to change topics is noted
are you saying there is no hand cutting during your prophet time?
LOL , why advertise your stupidity? I repeat what I stated on this issue , from my last post (bit part):
If you had understood my answer you would know that he instances of cutting off a person hand (not 2 hands yeah) in the time of Prophet Muhammad(saw) were extremely rare due to the stringent conditions. Else the offenders would either require to payback what he stole or work it off which is quite common in ancient societies.
you dont even understand parabale??? just like the malay says " if you see snake and indian...u kill indians...does it mean to kill indians? or just parable??
I have already asked you why do you consider the said verses parables. I repeat my argument from my post#35 , bit part
Ok then , tell me what is the parable that Jesus meant with the said verses. Jesus confirmed such with the statements
mat5:30 And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.
mat18:8 If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire.
mark9:45 And if your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell.
What is the parable here considering Jesus stated the above that it is better to go thru life crippled rather than sinning. Can you explain?
You keep on repeating that it is a parable but avoid the question on why do you think its a parable as the underlined (above) states that it is better to be maimed or crippled rather than be thrown in hell as one is stealing. How can it be a parable with the explanatory verses as above?
why not working? something wrong with the administration not convict...
LOL , there you go again trying to change topics. Your contention is that my figures of repeated offenders are wrong. However the study by USM have proven me right and you wrong. The problem here is that the convict should not have stole in the first place. Therefore they are the problem which requires time and effort from others to help them. You are just a snake. When proven that you are wrong , you try to change topics. Don't you know how to admit that you are wrong?
unemployment ..yes local are unemployed because our country hiring too many bangla, indon and etc...in every sectors,,,hotels, supermarket and etc...
hence this leads our local jobless..
who u blame?
This is not a blaming game. Hudud cannot be administered on people who stole because they do not have any other means to survive nor on drug addicts because they are of unsound mind due to their addiction. We are talking on the guidelines of Hudud and what is your reason to reject it which until now you avoid giving a valid reason. However you again try to change topics when cornered. You don't look good ....
now you twisting like snake...in your hadiths and quran itself says chopping off hand if one would to seal...are you denying??
I thought bro hajimex provided the guidelines for the administration of Hudud , post#4 , #9 , #10. I provided the same in post#13 , #14 and #26 in a another thread (post#12). You did not even bother to read it but come up with the same lame argument again. This is evidence that you are of lesser intelligence. Any normal person would read the information in the provided links and either ask if they do not understand or question it. However you did not even bother to learn anything but come up with the same stupid question over and over again hoping for a different answer. Like I stated , why advertise your stupidity?
once it filem...it well researched...hence it can be trust..
Huh? Well researched? How can a story which is heresay be the truth? Where is the evidence that it has been well researched? Did the person who made the filem go back to the same village and confirm the story? Did he checked any records? Where is your evidence apart from farting thru your mouth? LOL , you are just a bigot of a christian would believe anything that support his world view especially about Islam. Truth and facts are secondary for you.
by such claimed, you are confused.....
LOL , I think you are the one who is confused. You are the one with the opinion that any theft (even a piece of bread) would result in both hands getting chopped off due to Hudud. When explained , you did not bother to even learn because you are just a bigot of a christian who only would believe anything that support your worldview especially when it comes to Islam. When it is shown that
- the bible also prescribes Hudud
- the current law of death for drug pushers is in context Hudud
you can only come up with a single statemen that I am confused whereas you have been refuted in everything.
Can you give a valid reason of your rejection of Hudud? Why are you so scared to even give a valid reason ...... unless you don't have any. If you don't have any , why are you against Hudud?
LOL , do you know what is by definition 'professionalthief'? You have comprehension problems. If you don't know what 'professionalthief' means , find out first before arguing like someone who appears high ondrugs. Asking why a professional thief is not interested in other skill is likeasking a bachelor to whom is he married.
------------------------------------------
By truth.8
Does the quran /hadith says only professional thief need tobe chop off hand? Which mean the repeated offence? Does it says that also??
--------------------------------------------
By sam:
First you ask whether Prophet Muhammad(saw) ever thought of teaching skill setsto convicts. When pointed out the stupidity of the question in reference to thebible, you now change topic to any proof that Hadd punishment is from Allah.Hadd punishment is in the Quran and we muslims believe it is the word of Allah.In fact the Quran state that it is the word of Allah whereas thebible has no statement that it is the word of the Christian God. However you intrying to change topics is noted
-------------------------------------------
By truth.8
Why a unlearn person came with the hudud and later claim it was from allah? Are you sure the hudud never practiced before islam ?probably Muhammad hijack it and blend with islam???
----------------------------------------
By sam:
LOL , why advertise your stupidity?I repeat what I stated on this issue , from my last post (bit part):
If you had understood my answer you would know that heinstances of cutting off a person hand (not 2 hands yeah) in the time ofProphet Muhammad(saw) were extremely rare due to the stringent conditions. Elsethe offenders would either require to payback what he stole or work it offwhich is quite common in ancient societies.
-------------------------------------
By truth.8
Meaning to says it rare but it did happen?
By sam:
I have already asked you why do youconsider the said verses parables. I repeat my argument from my post#35 , bitpart
Ok then , tell me what is the parable that Jesus meant withthe said verses. Jesus confirmed such with the statements
mat5:30 And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw itaway. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your wholebody to go into hell.
mat18:8 If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throwit away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to havetwo hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire.
mark9:45 And if your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is betterfor you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell.
What is the parable here considering Jesus stated the above that it is betterto go thru life crippled rather than sinning. Can you explain?
You keep on repeating that it is a parable but avoid thequestion on why do you think its a parable as the underlined (above) statesthat it is better to be maimed or crippled rather than be thrown in hell as oneis stealing. How can it be a parable with the explanatory verses as above?
Of course you not a Bible scholar but you act like one. During Jesus time, they do not practice harsh punishment like chop off hands and etc.
What does the verses meant?
Did Jesus teach people to literally pluck their eye out and cut their hand off?
The passage from the Sermon on the Mount (and see alsoMatthew 18:8-9) is a familiar one:
"You haveheard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery.' But I tell you thatanyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with herin his heart. If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throwit away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your wholebody to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut itoff and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body thanfor your whole body to go into hell." - Matthew 5:27-30 (NIV emphasismine)
WasJesus teaching people to actually take up dismemberment as a way to fight sin?Is he merely speaking in the language of hyperbole? Are eyes, hands, and feetsymbolic of other things? Or is the teaching getting at something else? Howshould these sayings be understood?
1Answer
up vote 7 down vote accepted
The immediate context is adultery, which occurs in the heart. The adultery enters the heart through the eye, and clears the heart through the hand. Under these circumstances, one would be ceremonially unclean only until evening (Lev 15:16-17). That is, there was no sin under these circumstances in the Law of Moses that would have required blood sacrifice (sin or guilt offering), but Jesus indicated that in fact under such circumstances there was an actual act of adultery, because the sin occurred in the heart in concert with the eye and hand.
Now, is Jesus talking about the actual surgical removal of the eye and hand?
The problem is not the eye or the hand, but the heart. Jesus does not mention that two eyes be gouged, or that two hands be hacked off, which would eliminate the possibility of the sin of adultery from ever occurring again. (The problem is the heart.) So, Jesus is not making an actual reference to the removal of parts of the body, because leaving one hand and one eye (without rectifying the heart) does not eliminate the possibility of a repeat of the same sin of adultery in the heart from occurring again. It is the heart that is the problem.
So the "removal" of the right hand and one eye has a different meaning. That meaning is to block the eye and hand from processing the images of lust (and therefore adultery). As Martin Luther once said, “You cannot keep birds from flying over your head, but you can keep them from building a nest in your hair.” What he meant by that was that we cannot give harbor to lust either passively (eye) or actively (hand). We must eliminate the passive and active ways that the sin of adultery therefore can compromise our heart.
LOL , there you go again trying to change topics. Your contention is that myfigures of repeated offenders are wrong. However the study by USM have provenme right and you wrong. The problem here is that the convict should not havestole in the first place. Therefore they are the problem which requires time andeffort from others to help them. You are just a snake. When proven that you arewrong , you try to change topics. Don't you know how to admit that you arewrong?
---------------------------------------
ByTruth.8
If they stole….it highly recommend modern law…not kind outdated law….simple as that..because we living in modern soceity
-------------------------------------------------
By sam:
This is not a blaming game. Hudud cannot be administered onpeople who stole because they do not have any other means to survive nor ondrug addicts because they are of unsound mind due to their addiction. We aretalking on the guidelines of Hudud and what is your reason to reject it whichuntil now you avoid giving a valid reason. However you again try to changetopics when cornered. You don't look good ....
----------------------------------------------------
By truth.8
If they are unsound mind due to whatever reason…there isalways a remedy….not harsh punishment….yes I look good…
by sam:
I thought bro hajimex provided the guidelines for theadministration of Hudud , post#4 , #9 , #10. I provided the same in post#13 , #14 and #26 in a anotherthread (post#12). You did not even bother to read it but come upwith the same lame argument again. This is evidence that you are of lesserintelligence. Any normal person would read the information in the providedlinks and either ask if they do not understand or question it. However you didnot even bother to learn anything but come up with the same stupid questionover and over again hoping for a different answer. Like I stated , whyadvertise your stupidity?
By truth.8
He says not expert in that issue…it just references only.
-------------------------
By sam:
Huh? Well researched? How can a story which is heresay bethe truth? Where is the evidence that it has been well researched? Did theperson who made the filem go back to the same village and confirm the story?Did he checked any records? Where is your evidence apart from farting thru yourmouth? LOL , you are just a bigot of a christian would believe anything thatsupport his world view especially about Islam. Truth and facts are secondaryfor you.
------------------------------
By truth.8
Surly as a writer he does proper researched before writing a true story . You arein denial…
------------------------------------
By sam:
by such claimed, you are confused.....
LOL , Ithink you are the one who is confused. You are the one with the opinion thatany theft (even a piece of bread) would result in both hands getting choppedoff due to Hudud. When explained , you did not bother to even learn because youare just a bigot of a christian who only would believe anything that supportyour worldview especially when it comes to Islam. When it is shown that
- the bible also prescribes Hudud
- the current law of death for drug pushers is in context Hudud
you can only come up with a single statemen that I am confused whereas you havebeen refuted in everything.
--------------------------------
By Truth.8
Yes stealing whether repeated offence or the so called professional thief chopping of handsis not a solution …just like drug pusher who are hanged but does this change the situation? Never….it still happening every now and than….
If indeed want to implement hudud….. I would suggest those hudud should goes to peoples takes bribe and peoples who makes slanders…this are most evil things in the universe which cannot beforgiven…my view…
Truth.8 replied at 17-2-2015 06:50 PM
Does the quran /hadith says only professional thief need tobe chop off hand? Which mean the repeated offence? Does it says that also??
LOL , I wonder just how you manage to survive everyday. We are talking about what is a 'professional thief' , you in your 'infinite wisdom' comes up with such a 'genius' of a question whether the Quran / Hadith say only only the hands of a professional thief needs to be cut off. I hope you don't have kids who follow your 'intellectual prowess'.
What is the motive of a 'professional thief'?
Why a unlearn person came with the hudud and later claim it was from allah? Are you sure the hudud never practiced before islam ?probably Muhammad hijack it and blend with islam???
For the third time , The Hadd punishment is from the Quran. We muslims believe that the Quran is the word of Allah. The issue whether it was practiced before Islam is not of any concern. LOL , ok then provide your evidence that Prophet Muhammad(saw) hijack it and blend with Islam. The Torah (or OT) have the following verse ; deut25:11-12 (NIV)
11. If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts,
12. you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity.
Anything about it in the Quran?
Meaning to says it rare but it did happen?
Of course it did happen no matter if its is rare. However there were strict guidelines for such Hadd punishment. It is not chopping off the 2 hands due to one being a thief (like a minor issue of stealing bread) as claimed by you.
Of course you not a Bible scholar but you act like one. During Jesus time, they do not practice harsh punishment like chop off hands and etc.
What does the verses meant?
Did Jesus teach people to literally pluck their eye out andcut their hand off?
The passage from the Sermon on the Mount (and see alsoMatthew 18:8-9) is a familiar one:
"You haveheard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery.' But I tell you thatanyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with herin his heart. If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throwit away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your wholebody to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut itoff and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body thanfor your whole body to go into hell." - Matthew 5:27-30 (NIV emphasismine)
WasJesus teaching people to actually take up dismemberment as a way to fight sin?Is he merely speaking in the language of hyperbole? Are eyes, hands, and feetsymbolic of other things? Or is the teaching getting at something else? Howshould these sayings be understood?
1Answer
up vote 7 down vote accepted
The immediate context is adultery, which occurs in the heart. The adultery enters the heart through the eye, and clears the heart through the hand. Under these circumstances, one would be ceremonially unclean only until evening (Lev 15:16-17). That is, there was no sin under these circumstances in the Law of Moses that would have required blood sacrifice (sin or guilt offering), but Jesus indicated that in fact under such circumstances there was an actual act of adultery, because the sin occurred in the heart in concert with the eye and hand.
Now, is Jesus talking about the actual surgical removal of the eye and hand?
The problem is not the eye or the hand, but the heart. Jesus does not mention that two eyes be gouged, or that two hands be hacked off, which would eliminate the possibility of the sin of adultery from ever occurring again. (The problem is the heart.) So, Jesus is not making an actual reference to the removal of parts of the body, because leaving one hand and one eye (without rectifying the heart) does not eliminate the possibility of a repeat of the same sin of adultery in the heart from occurring again. It is the heart that is the problem.
So the "removal" of the right hand and one eye has a different meaning. That meaning is to block the eye and hand from processing the images of lust (and therefore adultery). As Martin Luther once said, “You cannot keep birds from flying over your head, but you can keep them from building a nest in your hair.” What he meant by that was that we cannot give harbor to lust either passively (eye) or actively (hand). We must eliminate the passive and active ways that the sin of adultery therefore can compromise our heart.
This is why I do't understand christians like you. You pick and choose which verse you want to consider metaphorical.In this case you die - die argue it to be a metaphor but it clearly stated that it is better to go thru life maimed and crippled rather then be thrown to hell. That means the cutting off of the hands can be understood being literal.
Going to another example , the verse 'my father and I are one' (joh 10.30). In this case you take it to be literal to force the meaning that Jesus is God. However a few verses after that , we can understand the context that it is one in purpose but you deny it.
Another case , mark16:17-18 (NIV)
17. And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues;
18. they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."
You would probably claim this verses to be metaphorical. However the Appalachian churches take it to be literal
For serpent-handling churches, these verses hold no symbolism—they are the literal words of the Lord that have inspired worshiping believers to handle poisonous snakes for a hundred years.
BTW , in mark 16 the following is noted
The earliest manuscripts and some other ancient witnesses do not have verses 9–20.
This is the big problem with Christians like you. Any verse that you cannot explain or don't agree with , that said verse becomes metaphorical. LOL ...
Even the Catholic Church used torture and imprisonment to obtain confessions from people regardless of whether they were guilty.
Torture and punishment has existed for thousands of years. Roman and Greek law stated that only slaves were allowed to be tortured, eventually the laws changed and free men were tortured and imprisoned for committing crimes.
People often had their right hand cut of for stealing, people were beaten, burned alive, stretched on a rack and women committing adultery were drowned.
Where do the church get its guideline? The bible of course.
In 1215, the Pope decided that priests in England must not help with ordeals. As a result, ordeals were replaced by trials by juries. To start with, these were not popular with the people as they felt that their neighbours might have a grudge against them and use the opportunity of a trial to get their revenge. After 1275, a law was introduced which allowed people to be tortured if they refused to go to trial before a jury.
If you were found guilty of a crime you would expect to face a severe punishment. Thieves had their hands cut off.
All these decided by the church. The church reference is always the bible. However the church went too far , people revolted.
If they stole….it highly recommend modern law…not kind outdated law….simple as that..because we living in modern soceity
What if they keep on stealing again and again? This has be proven with the statistics provided. Where do you draw the line? We might as well jail rapists / murderers / drug pushers and let them go after a few years hoping they pick up skills and then repeat the same cycle with the repeat offenders. Ask yourself frankly , is this a solution? You would never answer me.
If they are unsound mind due to whatever reason…there isalways a remedy….not harsh punishment….yes I look good…
LOL , this shows that you do not understand what has been explained. I repeat what has been stated in my last post (bit part)
Hudud cannot be administered on people who stole because they do not have any other means to survive nor on drug addicts because they are of unsound mind due to their addiction.
Still you are under the impression that a drug addict (with unsound mind) steal , both hands are chopped of due to Hudud. This confirm that you have comprehension problems. The funniest part is that you think you look good.
He says not expert in that issue…it just references only.
We are not talking about him. We are talking about his references. The references are from a knowledgeable site(s) or person(s). Did you actually read the references provided? I don't think you even bother to read anything. No wonder you are a like a headless chicken going around in circles chasing your backside. You are just in a 'syok sendiri' mode of argument and you are not even willing to read anything. In short you one ignorant person.
Surly as a writer he does proper researched before writing a true story . You arein denial…
LOL , it is just an assumption from you that such is the truth. When asked for evidence , you have nothing. Can you explain just how heresay can be considered the truth ...... there is no evidence. I think Christianity has fried your brains.
Yes stealing whether repeated offence or the so called professional thief chopping of handsis not a solution …just like drug pusher who are hanged but does this change the situation? Never….it still happening every now and than….
If indeed want to implement hudud….. I would suggest those hudud should goes to peoples takes bribe and peoples who makes slanders…this are most evil things in the universe which cannot beforgiven…my view…
Why is it not a solution as the person would repeat it over and over again as data shows. LOL , imagine the scale of the problem if the drug pushers were not hanged but put back to society and they repeat their offence. How many lives would be at stake?
If you take a bribe by marking up a project cost is akin to stealing. What is the issue here? There is already a guideline to slander in Syariah. If the person has been accused of aduletry , the accuser need to produce witnesses of the actual event.
Your argument is all covered the syariah guidelines. Until now you do not have a valid reason of rejecting Hudud. Why are you arguing half crock on an issue that you cannot even provide a valid reason of your objection?
LOL , I wonder just how youmanage to survive everyday. We are talking about what is a 'professional thief', you in your 'infinite wisdom' comes up with such a 'genius' of a question whetherthe Quran / Hadith say only only the hands of a professional thief needs to becut off. I hope you don't have kids who follow your 'intellectual prowess'.
What is the motive of a 'professional thief'?
By truth.8
So, a professional thief steal frequently ….hence need to chop off handbecause he never change ? is that your point on the hudud?
By sam:
For the third time , The Haddpunishment is from the Quran. We muslims believe that the Quran is the word ofAllah. The issue whether it was practiced before Islam is not of any concern.LOL , ok then provide your evidence that Prophet Muhammad(saw) hijack it andblend with Islam. The Torah (or OT) have the following verse ; deut25:11-12(NIV)
By truth.8
Your Muhammad took mostthe teachings comes from the Torah….which is the Jews…google it you find lotinfo on that.
Talking quran and hadithwhy deut 25 coming here?
By sam:
Of course it did happen nomatter if its is rare. However there were strict guidelines for such Haddpunishment. It is not chopping off the 2 hands due to one being a thief (like aminor issue of stealing bread) as claimed by you.
By truth.8
So, it does happened….meaningstealing and hand was chop off. So you think is applicable at present time???
By sam
This is why I do't understandchristians like you. You pick and choose which verse you want to considermetaphorical.In this case you die - die argue it to be a metaphor but itclearly stated that it is better to go thru life maimed and crippled ratherthen be thrown to hell. That means the cutting off of the hands can beunderstood being literal.
Going to another example , the verse 'my father and I are one' (joh 10.30). Inthis case you take it to be literal to force the meaning that Jesus is God.However a few verses after that , we can understand the context that it is onein purpose but you deny it.
By truth.8
It already crystal clear you have wrong interpretation on the Bible meaning ….stop making youself fool again.
By sam:
Another case , mark16:17-18(NIV)
By truth.8
Why brining bible verses whenyou and Muslims view Bible is corrupted? Did not sound like you Muslims twistingtongue?
By sam:
What if they keep on stealingagain and again? This has be proven with the statistics provided. Where do youdraw the line? We might as well jail rapists / murderers / drug pushers and letthem go after a few years hoping they pick up skills and then repeat the samecycle with the repeat offenders. Ask yourself frankly , is this a solution? Youwould never answer me.
By truth.8
This statistics is fact or approve by our Government?
From my understanding, the government already provideaids to this convicts while in prison…I believed it good enough …than coming with the hudud law..
By sam:
Still you are under the impression that a drug addict (withunsound mind) steal , both hands are chopped of due to Hudud. This confirm thatyou have comprehension problems. The funniest part is that you think you lookgood.
==
By truth.8
I think it is you have wrong understanding …did I wrote drug addict hand are chop..? no. I was referringto you answer on the professional thief when you claimed they never change…
By sam:
We are not talking about him. Weare talking about his references. The references are from a knowledgeablesite(s) or person(s). Did you actually read the references provided? I don'tthink you even bother to read anything. No wonder you are a like a headlesschicken going around in circles chasing your backside. You are just in a 'syoksendiri' mode of argument and you are not even willing to read anything. Inshort you one ignorant person.
By truth.8
The references provide by him isweak…..hence I do not buy it…
By sam:
LOL , it is just an assumptionfrom you that such is the truth. When asked for evidence , you have nothing.Can you explain just how heresay can be considered the truth ...... there is noevidence. I think Christianity has fried your brains.
By truth.8
It proof according the author wellresearched….u still in denial …
By sam:
Why is it not a solution as theperson would repeat it over and over again as data shows. LOL , imagine thescale of the problem if the drug pushers were not hanged but put back tosociety and they repeat their offence. How many lives would be at stake?
By truth.8
Why hanged? Life imprisonment good enough…
by sam:
Your argument is all covered the syariah guidelines. Until now you do not havea valid reason of rejecting Hudud. Why are you arguing half crock on an issuethat you cannot even provide a valid reason of your objection?
So, a professional thief steal frequently ….hence need to chop off handbecause he never change ? is that your point on the hudud?
You cannot even answer my question in a coherent manner. This shows that you do not have a full understanding of the issue.
What is the motive of a 'professional thief'? BTW , do you know what is a 'professional thief'?
Your Muhammad took mostthe teachings comes from the Torah….which is the Jews…google it you find lotinfo on that.
Talking quran and hadithwhy deut 25 coming here?
What is the issue here? We muslims have consistently stated that Islam is the latest revelation from Allah superseeding Judaism and Christianity. This is because Judaism has nationalize the religion (for israelites only) and Christianity (being an extension of Judaism) has wrongly identified a man being God. Islam came and corrected these irregularities.
LOL , you don't even read what I stated. I copy paste again (bitpart) from my last post :
The Torah (or OT) have the following verse ; deut25:11-12 (NIV)
11. If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts,
12. you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity.
Anything about it in the Quran?
So, it does happened….meaningstealing and hand was chop off. So you think is applicable at present time???
Why not? Stealing has been a nasty habit since time in memorial. Why can't there be a deterrant punishment? A person who knowingly commit the crime knowing the punishment deserve to get the said punishment. Don't you think its logical and fair?
already crystal clear you have wrong interpretation on the Bible meaning ….stop making youself fool again.
LOL , I have shown you that part of the christian population interprets the bible literally. When the church was in power in Europe (in the mid ages) , the bible was the law. Thieves got their hands chopped off. The people revolted not because of the biblical laws but the church being corrupted to no end. It is not the biblical laws that caused the people to revolt but the oppression by the church. Where is it that I have wrong interpretation of the bible? Unlike you who selectively claim verses that you cannot explain to be metaphors. How convenient ..... yes?
Why brining bible verses whenyou and Muslims view Bible is corrupted? Did not sound like you Muslims twistingtongue?
LOL , again and again you do not understand the argument. I stated that the Appalacian Churches appealed to the literal meaning of Mark16:17-18 meaning that they thought they could handle poisonous snakes in an effort to convince their church members that they are protected by God. Lots of these snake handlers end up dead. The best part is that they don't even know or choose to ignore that the bible itself stated that mark16:10-7 (the said verses) are actually not part of the bible , it being later day insertion.
One hand we have christians who interpret the bible literally. On the other hand other christians try to explain it off stating that these verses are metaphors.
This statistics is fact or approve by our Government?
From my understanding, the government already provideaids to this convicts while in prison…I believed it good enough …than coming with the hudud law..
Ha ha , what has approval by the Government got to do with the works by the folks from USM? You can provide aid to the convicte but we are talking about repeat offenders. This means that whatever skill taught in jail , they would ignore it and end up stealing - again and again. If their hand (not 2 hands as claimed by you) amputated , they would think twice before stealing again.
I think it is you have wrong understanding …did I wrote drug addict hand are chop..? no. I was referringto you answer on the professional thief when you claimed they never change…
You are the one who claimed that in Hudud , all thieves (even for stealing bread) would have both hands chopped off. However it is not the case and now you are backtracking. A professional thief is a career thief. Worse still if he is a repeat offender. What do you do with these people? Teach them skills in jail but they end up stealing when come out of the said jail. It is a vicious cycle. You have not provided any solution. What is your solution?
The references provide by him isweak…..hence I do not buy it…
You have not given a reason why you reject it. I think you did not even bother the read it. You are just arguing from ignorance and your already set and skewed world view.
It proof according the author wellresearched….u still in denial …
Can you now show me where is the so called well researched documents by the author? LOL , lets see what topic you would change to because you cannot answer.
Why hanged? Life imprisonment good enough…
Hmm .... life imprisonment. Meaning the person eventually dies in jail. This is cruel. Just lock up a person and throw away the keys. This is not a solution.
Already explained in crystal clear..
No , you have not. As far as I am concerned , you change topics everytime you are cornered. Still waiting here ..... give a valid reason of you rejecting Hudud. Until now , nothing from you ...... as usual.
after lenghty explanation, there is something wrong with u...infact modern malays do not agree on the hudud...
let us not worry about who wrote the koran, bible, torah, Guru Granth Sahib, gita or any other religious books because each and every religion will claim GOD inspired them to write or words of GOD from his own mouth but GOD is not here to authenticate all these books. For the the modern world its best that man follow a secular law that does not discriminate against race or religion.
another question, by implementing the hudud, do you think crime rate drop?
Are you sure most Malays want hudud?Mariam Mokhtar
| December 19, 2014
If the ulama are convinced of this, why not persuade Umno-Baru to set a date for a referendum and ask Malaysians once and for all?
COMMENT If “hudud” is in the news, you can bet on three things: First:Umno-Baru has something serious to hide. Second:PAS will capitalise on their spot in the limelight, and raise more religious issues. Third:More Malays will join the brain-drain.
The other disturbing aspect of hudud is seen when ignorant and manipulative Malays issue the blanket phrase, “If you are not a Muslim, you have nothing to fear.”
Hudud has not yet been implemented, but if shariah law is a taste of things to come, then everyone, both Muslim and non-Muslim, have everything to fear. Malaysians lack confidence in the civil courts to implement justice. So, what makes the authorities and PAS think Malaysians should trust them?
What if there had been a miscarriage of justice? Our medical technology is not sufficiently advanced to regrow a limb. It is neither fair nor just, for a non-Muslim to be punished lightly, whilst his Muslim counterpart is punished harshly for a similar crime. Who looks after the limbless criminals? Who looks after his family, assuming he has one? Our welfare system is barely coping, under ordinary circumstances.
The following non-Muslims ended up being the victims of shariah law; a law which most people assume only affects Muslims.
S. Deepa’s former husband Izwan Abdullah, a convert, disagreed with the Court of Appeal and snatched their son from his wife, despite both the Seremban High Court and Court of Appeal granting his wife custody of the children.
Indira Ghandi’s daughter was snatched by her convert ex-husband around five years ago. To this day, the IGP refuses to arrest Indira’s husband.
Universiti Kebangsaan Malaysia Shariah Department’s Islamic Faculty lecturer, Izhar Ariff Mohd Kassim urged Muslims to unite and fight for Islam in Malaysia. He said, “If the Chinese can be united in rejecting hudud, why can’t Muslims be united in implementing it?”
Is Izhar shortsighted? The implementation of hudud is not about Muslims against Chinese. Implementing hudud should never be seen as “them against us”.
Hudud is a barbaric and inhumane set of laws, which legitimises limb amputations, stoning and beheading in God’s name. Look at how people were repulsed by the recent Sydney café crisis when a madman used God’s name to kill and cause chaos. Look at how Islamic State beheads people and commits mass murder in God’s name.
LOL , you have provided no valid answers to the question of what is your reason to reject Hudud. Instead you refer to a writeup by Miriam Mokhtar because she is a muslim and reject Hudud. Her reasons are at best lame.
Modern Malays reject the Hudud? I find more so called modern malays in support of the Hudud.
Lets go thru the so called arguments one by one
(1) We are waiting for the referendum. So far its all talk but no action. So far majority of muslims are in support of Hudud. For the people who are not in support , what is the reason? Until now , there is no valid reason. There is something wrong with people who cannot provide valid reasons to their objection. What is wrong when religious issues are raised. As long as it doesn't transgress or cause problems to other religions ...... what is the problem?
(2) Brain drain? Can you now provide any form of data that there would be a brain drain upon Hudud? LOL , I really can't see if there is a miscarriage of justice as part of 'cutting of limb' entails very strict guidelines including witnesses and a confession by the person. What makes you think that a person who face the possibility of havimg had their limb amputated would even entertain the idea of stealing (again if he does it the second time). Unless the person has a death wish.
(3) Why is it unfair that a muslim be punished with Hudud whereas a non muslim not exposed to Hudud? In the first place the person should have thought out the repercussion of them caught stealing.
(4) There are many examples of a person who still can have a living with one useful hand. example 1 example 2
You are arguing on imaginary issues. There are lots of able people with 1 hand. The point here it is better to have one hand rather than in prison for the rest of a person's natural life.
(5) The child in the Deepa's case should be handed to the wife as it has been the decision of the court. What is there to worry about? I believe that even though the child been brought up a non muslim , if Allah wills it , he / she would in the end be muslim. It is up to the father to expose the child in the virtue of Islam. There is no worries here. What has Hudud got to do in this case? You don't even know what you are talking about.
(6) I thought it has already been established that the Sydney shooter was a criminal in Iran. In fact Iran requested Australia for the extradition of this person but was refused. It has already been explained that IS is actually secular Pan Arabic movement with links to the Baath political ideology. How in the world you tie these 2 incidents to Islam and Hudud? Care to explain
LOL , you still have nothing. Again I ask , can you provide a valid reason for rejecting Hudud. So far there is none from but imaginary issues and cannot 'basuh berak' ....
you still fail to explain:
let us not worry about who wrote the koran, bible, torah, Guru Granth Sahib, gita or any other religious books because each and every religion will claim GOD inspired them to write or words of GOD from his own mouth but GOD is not here to authenticate all these books. For the the modern world its best that man follow a secular law that does not discriminate against race or religion.
another question, by implementing the hudud, do you think crime rate drop?
infact Marina Mahathir and his father do not agree on the hudud....if certain muslims do not agree, how u justify to says hudud work? it only bring separation amoung muslims , anger and war..
I am waiting for your question "another question, by implementing the hudud, do you think crime rate drop?"
soalan maut aka killer question:
apa beza MILLAH dan ADDIIN. Kalau awak /atau mereka boleh jawab ,awak/ atau mereka boleh tegakkan hudud.....
Truth.8 replied at 21-2-2015 12:03 PM
you still fail to explain:
let us not worry about who wrote the koran, bible, torah, Guru Granth Sahib, gita or any other religious books because each and every religion will claim GOD inspired them to write or words of GOD from his own mouth but GOD is not here to authenticate all these books. For the the modern world its best that man follow a secular law that does not discriminate against race or religion.
another question, by implementing the hudud, do you think crime rate drop?
infact Marina Mahathir and his father do not agree on the hudud....if certain muslims do not agree, how u justify to says hudud work? it only bring separation amoung muslims , anger and war..
I am waiting for your question "another question, by implementing the hudud, do you think crime rate drop?"
soalan maut aka killer question:
apa beza MILLAH dan ADDIIN. Kalau awak /atau mereka boleh jawab ,awak/ atau mereka boleh tegakkan hudud.....
Truly you are a person with serious comprehension issues.
Your question has already been answered in my last post which I copy paste in bit part :
Why is it unfair that a muslim be punished with Hudud whereas a non muslim not exposed to Hudud? In the first place the person should have thought out the repercussion of them caught stealing.
Why should muslims even bother if non muslims are punished with a perception of a lesser law. I would think a majority of muslims would want to be governed by muslim law and clean up our own backyard first.
I would think with Hudud , if implemented properly and seriously , the crime rate would drop. There is no data at this moment but deterrence is a big factor in crime prevention.
Did you actually listen or better still understand what Dr Mahathir stated? He stated that he has NO problems with Hudud but with only with PAS version of Hudud. However he failed to explain what is the so called PAS version of Hudud. Hudud is the maximum limit of punishment set in the Quran. There is no PAS Hudud here , it is all derived from the Quran.
Again I answer , I would think the crime rate would drop if Hudud implemented. The deterrence is good enough.
What has 'Al-Millah' or 'Ad-Din' got o do with Hudud? There are 2 places where these words are mentioned
(1) Quran2:120 :[size=5.2]وَلَن تَرۡضَىٰ عَنكَ ٱلۡيَہُودُ وَلَا ٱلنَّصَـٰرَىٰ حَتَّىٰ تَتَّبِعَ مِلَّتَہُمۡ‌ۗ قُلۡ إِنَّ هُدَى ٱللَّهِ هُوَ ٱلۡهُدَىٰ‌ۗ وَلَٮِٕنِ ٱتَّبَعۡتَ أَهۡوَآءَهُم بَعۡدَ ٱلَّذِى جَآءَكَ مِنَ ٱلۡعِلۡمِ‌ۙ مَا لَكَ مِنَ ٱللَّهِ مِن وَلِىٍّ۬ وَلَا نَصِيرٍ
(Translation : religion)
Tell me , since you brought up this issue. What is their difference? There is a difference but what is it? I bet my bottom dollar , you don't know. What has Hudud got to do with [size=5.2]مِلَّ and [size=5.2]ٱلدِّينَ ??
I am still waiting : what is your reason in your objection to Hudud? Are you onjecting for the sake of objecting?
Why should muslims even bother if non muslims are punished with a perception of a lesser law. I would think a majority of muslims would want to be governed by muslim law and clean up our own backyard first.
OK, but do you think is unfair when such harsh hudud only for muslims where else the none muslims can steal or do crime but will face the normal punishment? what say u?
I would think with Hudud , if implemented properly and seriously , the crime rate would drop. There is no data at this moment but deterrence is a big factor in crime prevention.
well, do u know in thailand crime rate are much lower compare to malaysia? no hudud but crime is lower...i can walk freely midnite or even taking BTS (lrt) and walking alone in lonely places at midnite.... also the owner of the shop can leave main door open during lunch hour when the owner not in...that show less crime rate ....
so, here even the hanging the peoples pushing drugs and etc...we still see drugs pusher...again your view on THINK is not sure whether such hudud will work..
Did you actually listen or better still understand what Dr Mahathir stated? He stated that he has NO problems with Hudud but with only with PAS version of Hudud. However he failed to explain what is the so called PAS version of Hudud. Hudud is the maximum limit of punishment set in the Quran. There is no PAS Hudud here , it is all derived from the Quran.
so, we have different version of hudud from PAS....this what i have said....hudud will break up muslims in different sects...this will leads the country chaos when muslims separated....and country like malaysia...all will suffered... in terms of economy and others...
Again I answer , I would think the crime rate would drop if Hudud implemented. The deterrence is good enough.
What has 'Al-Millah' or 'Ad-Din' got o do with Hudud? There are 2 places where these words are mentioned
(1) Quran2:120 :[size=5.2]وَلَن تَرۡضَىٰ عَنكَ ٱلۡيَہُودُ وَلَا ٱلنَّصَـٰرَىٰ حَتَّىٰ تَتَّبِعَ مِلَّتَہُمۡ‌ۗ قُلۡ إِنَّ هُدَى ٱللَّهِ هُوَ ٱلۡهُدَىٰ‌ۗ وَلَٮِٕنِ ٱتَّبَعۡتَ أَهۡوَآءَهُم بَعۡدَ ٱلَّذِى جَآءَكَ مِنَ ٱلۡعِلۡمِ‌ۙ مَا لَكَ مِنَ ٱللَّهِ مِن وَلِىٍّ۬ وَلَا نَصِيرٍ
(Translation : religion)
(2) Quran98:5 :[size=5.2]وَمَآ أُمِرُوٓاْ إِلَّا لِيَعۡبُدُواْ ٱللَّهَ مُخۡلِصِينَ لَهُ ٱلدِّينَ حُنَفَآءَ وَيُقِيمُواْ ٱلصَّلَوٰةَ وَيُؤۡتُواْ ٱلزَّكَوٰةَ‌ۚ وَذَٲلِكَ دِينُ ٱلۡقَيِّمَةِ
(Translation : religion)
Tell me , since you brought up this issue. What is their difference? There is a difference but what is it? I bet my bottom dollar , you don't know. What has Hudud got to do with [size=5.2]مِلَّ and [size=5.2]ٱلدِّينَ ??
you mind translation into BM or english...i m not quranic expert...thank you...oh by the way...with proper meaning as well.....thanks again
I am still waiting : what is your reason in your objection to Hudud? Are you onjecting for the sake of objecting?
Truth.8 replied at 21-2-2015 06:03 PM
OK, but do you think is unfair when such harsh hudud only for muslims where else the none muslims can steal or do crime but will face the normal punishment? what say u?
Why is it unfair? To each his own. If the non muslims want to maintain secular law it is up to them. Why is fuss if muslims want to implement Hudud for muslims only? I don't think that Hudud is for non muslims if they don't want it. Therefore what is the issue?
well, do u know in thailand crime rate are much lower compare to malaysia? no hudud but crime is lower...i can walk freely midnite or even taking BTS (lrt) and walking alone in lonely places at midnite.... also the owner of the shop can leave main door open during lunch hour when the owner not in...that show less crime rate ....
so, here even the hanging the peoples pushing drugs and etc...we still see drugs pusher...again your view on THINK is not sure whether such hudud will work..
LOL , since when is Hudud practiced in Malaysia and its crime index compared to Thailand? You don't seem to know what you are talking about. Well for that matter , in Kelantan some people just leave their shops in the market unattended and perform their solat. No one stole anything. You are not even looking at the Crime Index.
Tell me now what would happen if there is no death penalty for drug pushers? These pushers already have a death wish. Therefore they are not even bothered with the death penalty. With a lesser sentence as argued by you , a lot more people would be pushers because they don't have to pay with their lives.
so, we have different version of hudud from PAS....this what i have said....hudud will break up muslims in different sects...this will leads the country chaos when muslims separated....and country like malaysia...all will suffered... in terms of economy and others...
Since when did I state there is another Hudud from PAS? Hudud comes from the Quran. No matter who advocate for it , it is derived from the Quran. Since when does Hudud break people into many sects? You are just arguing from your imagination. Can you argue with facts?
you mind translation into BM or english...i m not quranic expert...thank you...oh by the way...with proper meaning as well.....thanks again
Look for the meanings at the following Al-Millah Ad-Din
LOL , I thought you know the meanings of the 2 words since you are the one asking me what is their meaning. Are you telling me that you don't know what you are talking about?
have read what i wrote ?? do you understand ??
Whatever you argue have been thoroughly refuted. That is why you don't have any valid reason
LOL , since when is Hudud practiced in Malaysia and its crime index compared to Thailand? You don't seem to know what you are talking about. Well for that matter , in Kelantan some people just leave their shops in the market unattended and perform their solat. No one stole anything. You are not even looking at the Crime Index.
do you know some kelantanese peoples in KL are crook? i have mix with them...ask the malays....yes, in thailand is non islam country but crime is lower but of course in business there is still got element of cheat and fraud...
Tell me now what would happen if there is no death penalty for drug pushers? These pushers already have a death wish. Therefore they are not even bothered with the death penalty. With a lesser sentence as argued by you , a lot more people would be pushers because they don't have to pay with their lives.
Compare to drug pusher and corruption, i would strongly belived death penalty for corruption....than you see how this country is moving forward
[/quote]
[quote]Since when did I state there is another Hudud from PAS? Hudud comes from the Quran. No matter who advocate for it , it is derived from the Quran. Since when does Hudud break people into many sects? You are just arguing from your imagination. Can you argue with facts?
are you moron? or just denial? many malays do not agreed on hudud....did not this breaking up?
Look for the meanings at the following Al-Millah Ad-Din
LOL , I thought you know the meanings of the 2 words since you are the one asking me what is their meaning. Are you telling me that you don't know what you are talking about?
where is the translation with explanation? this issue was brough by a malay in malaysiakini...so i copy it.....are you afraid to answer?
Whatever you argue have been thoroughly refuted. That is why you don't have any valid reason
not really.....you only syok sendiri by sayings such..
Truth.8 replied at 22-2-2015 02:03 PM
do you know some kelantanese peoples in KL are crook? i have mix with them...ask the malays....yes, in thailand is non islam country but crime is lower but of course in business there is still got element of cheat and fraud...
Aiyoo , in any society there will be crooks. What actually is your argument? How do you know that Thailand has lower crime rate. Where is your data? Oops , do you know what is data? Oh yes , by observing that people leave their business premises you conclude that Thailand has lower crime rate. LOL , what a niave simpleton you are.
Compare to drug pusher and corruption, i would strongly belived death penalty for corruption....than you see how this country is moving forward
So now you are advocating something that is more than Hudud for corruption? You are a confused person. First you say no Hudud but now you want a harsher than Hudud for corruption. Then you claim the country would move forward if such is implemented. Then why are you against Hudud in the first place? You are not drunk ..... are you ..... just checking .....
are you moron? or just denial? many malays do not agreed on hudud....did not this breaking up?
Malays against Hudud? Which Malays and what is the reason? You cannot articulate anything but just an argument from your rear end that Malays are against Hudud.
where is the translation with explanation? this issue was brough by a malay in malaysiakini...so i copy it.....are you afraid to answer?
Where is the translation with explanation? Did you not read the link I provided. Do you know how to read? The way you asked , I thought you know what is the meaning of the said words. I repost your question from your post#48
soalan maut aka killer question:
apa beza MILLAH dan ADDIIN. Kalau awak /atau mereka boleh jawab ,awak/ atau mereka boleh tegakkan hudud.....
In other words you don't know the meaning but act and pretend as if you know. Can you be a bit humble and admit that you don't know. What explanation do you want? I have given the translation of the words. These 2 words have a different meanings in context when used in different sentences. What actually are you looking for?
not really.....you only syok sendiri by sayings such..
Ok then , list down which one of your arguments that have not been refuted then I will just copy paste my refutation just to embarrass you further. Care to take up the challenge. Of course you would run away .....
Aiyoo , in any society there will be crooks. What actually is your argument? How do you know that Thailand has lower crime rate. Where is your data? Oops , do you know what is data? Oh yes , by observing that people leave their business premises you conclude that Thailand has lower crime rate. LOL , what a niave simpleton you are.
I have visited thailand and infact my clients too says thailand is less crime compare here in malaysia but I guess u never visit because you leave under coconuts shell...
So now you are advocating something that is more than Hudud for corruption? You are a confused person. First you say no Hudud but now you want a harsher than Hudud for corruption. Then you claim the country would move forward if such is implemented. Then why are you against Hudud in the first place? You are not drunk ..... are you ..... just checking .....
of course I would against hudud for chopping hands, stononing as we have DNA but if muslims truly want to implement hudud which no choice....they should implement hudud by hanging those taking bribe ......because stealing can be cause of poverty and others.....situation made them such but corruption is not an excuses as this peoples has job yet taking bribe...
Malays against Hudud? Which Malays and what is the reason? You cannot articulate anything but just an argument from your rear end that Malays are against Hudud.
Mahathir, Marina Mahathir and the article written by the malay....do i need prove more??
Did you not read the link I provided. Do you know how to read? The way you asked , I thought you know what is the meaning of the said words. I repost your question from your post#48
the link you provide is not a explanation ...it need explanation . for example the link says: hapter (98) sūrat l-bayinah (The Clear Evidence)
[/quote]
[quote]In other words you don't know the meaning but act and pretend as if you know. Can you be a bit humble and admit that you don't know. What explanation do you want? I have given the translation of the words. These 2 words have a different meanings in context when used in different sentences. What actually are you looking for?
what are you moron again? of course lah i dont know that why I posted such question...if I know, i never post such question. the article was question by a malay writer in malaysiakini...jgn seronok ckp hudud hudud hudud.....look at the implication later on......this country is not rich in oil.....like i said...if truly want to implement hudud...catch those bastard takes bribe....I mean the big fish not only iklan bilis........and hang them...because it is corruption country can be divided in choas not stealing or zina...
Ok then , list down which one of your arguments that have not been refuted then I will just copy paste my refutation just to embarrass you further. Care to take up the challenge. Of course you would run away ...
me run away? i been here 2000...does it look like runing away??? anyway you can read all the write up...is there
Truth.8 replied at 23-2-2015 12:14 PM
I have visited thailand and infact my clients too says thailand is less crime compare here in malaysia but I guess u never visit because you leave under coconuts shell...
Do you have the data in support of your argument? So far you have not presented any data but trying to BS saying you have visited Thailand. Visiting a place and providing data are 2 different things. If you have ever been to school , this is what we call data driven argument. An argument like yours , without data is just rubbish. Where is your data?
of course I would against hudud for chopping hands, stononing as we have DNA but if muslims truly want to implement hudud which no choice....they should implement hudud by hanging those taking bribe ......because stealing can be cause of poverty and others.....situation made them such but corruption is not an excuses as this peoples has job yet taking bribe...
DNA evidece can and should be used in Hudud for 'Hirabah' cases. If you say Hudud cannot use DNA evidence , then you are arguing from ignorance. LOL , you are so inconsistent. First you are against Hudud but then you came out and argue for punishment which is harsher than Hudud. You 'otak tak centre ka'?
Mahathir, Marina Mahathir and the article written by the malay....do i need prove more??
In the Youtube video you posted , Mahathir is not against Hudud but is against PAS implementing Hudud. In any case , 2 people are not majority. My question which you fail to answer until now : What is your reason to reject Hudud? How come it is so difficult to answer? Unless you don't know what you are talking about , which is about true.
the link you provide is not a explanation ...it need explanation . for example the link says:
hapter (98) sūrat l-bayinah (The Clear Evidence)
Translation Arabic word Syntax and morphology
(98:5:1)
wamā
And not CONJ – prefixed conjunction wa (and)
NEG – negative particleالواو عاطفة
حرف نفي
(98:5:2)
umirū
they were commanded V – 3rd person masculine plural passive perfect verb
PRON – subject pronounفعل ماض مبني للمجهول والواو ضمير متصل في محل رفع نائب فاعل
(98:5:3)
illā
except CERT – particle of certaintyحرف تحقيق
(98:5:4)
liyaʿbudū
to worship PRP – prefixed particle of purp
what is this??
What explanation do you want? You want a translation? The link provided it for Ad-Din
(98:5:8) l-dīna (in) the religion, N – accusative masculine noun اسم منصوب
Do I need to explain to you what 'the religion' means? Links have been provided to you but you cannot even read much less understand what has been provided. Like I stated , what is actually your question? You want to know the difference? Then provide the sentence with context and not just the solitary word.
what are you moron again? of course lah i dont know that why I posted such question...if I know, i never post such question. the article was question by a malay writer in malaysiakini...jgn seronok ckp hudud hudud hudud.....look at the implication later on......this country is not rich in oil.....like i said...if truly want to implement hudud...catch those bastard takes bribe....I mean the big fish not only iklan bilis........and hang them...because it is corruption country can be divided in choas not stealing or zina...
If you don't know what you are talking then have a bit of humility to ask. However you are trying to pretend that you know what it is. Why is this so? Isn't corruption a crime that is punishable by Hudud? There are many forms of corruption. What form of corruption are you talking about? You are not even focused on what you are trying to articulate.
me run away? i been here 2000...does it look like runing away??? anyway you can read all the write up...is there
Translation : I am too scared to pinpoint where are my arguments that have not been refuted. I challenge you again , list your arguments that you think have not been refuted than I will copy paste the refutation. This is the second time you are trying to run. LOL ...... malulah tambi ....
Do you have the data in support of your argument? So far you have not presented any data but trying to BS saying you have visited Thailand. Visiting a place and providing data are 2 different things. If you have ever been to school , this is what we call data driven argument. An argument like yours , without data is just rubbish. Where is your data?
why need to have data? data can be manipulated by anyone...you need to experience it ....in order to experience, you need to visit ...of course you are a person on pc all the time...living under coconut shell..
DNA evidece can and should be used in Hudud for 'Hirabah' cases. If you say Hudud cannot use DNA evidence , then you are arguing from ignorance. LOL , you are so inconsistent. First you are against Hudud but then you came out and argue for punishment which is harsher than Hudud. You 'otak tak centre ka'?
...but DNA is modern issue not mention in quran...that why i says the hudud is outdated....sorry to says im not inconsistent rather sayings that if u muslims really want to implement the hudud, than it should arrest those taking bribe and killed them....
In the Youtube video you posted , Mahathir is not against Hudud but is against PAS implementing Hudud. In any case , 2 people are not majority. My question which you fail to answer until now : What is your reason to reject Hudud? How come it is so difficult to answer? Unless you don't know what you are talking about , which is about true.
People are not given a second chance to repent or correct themselves and they lose a palm that wouldnt grow back for stealing? This is utter nonsense!
the link you provide is not a explanation ...it need explanation . for example the link says:
hapter (98) sūrat l-bayinah (The Clear Evidence)
Translation Arabic word Syntax and morphology
(98:5:1)
wamā
And not CONJ – prefixed conjunction wa (and)
NEG – negative particleالواو عاطفة
حرف نفي
(98:5:2)
umirū
they were commanded V – 3rd person masculine plural passive perfect verb
PRON – subject pronounفعل ماض مبني للمجهول والواو ضمير متصل في محل رفع نائب فاعل
(98:5:3)
illā
except CERT – particle of certaintyحرف تحقيق
(98:5:4)
liyaʿbudū
to worship PRP – prefixed particle of purp
what is this??
What explanation do you want? You want a translation? The link provided it for Ad-Din
is the verses explanation? it mention on masculine plural passive and etc...what kind explanation is this?
Do I need to explain to you what 'the religion' means? Links have been provided to you but you cannot even read much less understand what has been provided. Like I stated , what is actually your question? You want to know the difference? Then provide the sentence with context and not just the solitary word.
of course i can't understand when there is no proper explanation...it rather confusing..
If you don't know what you are talking then have a bit of humility to ask. However you are trying to pretend that you know what it is. Why is this so? Isn't corruption a crime that is punishable by Hudud? There are many forms of corruption. What form of corruption are you talking about? You are not even focused on what you are trying to articulate.
corruption ...taking bribe lah...is that too difficult for you understand?
Translation : I am too scared to pinpoint where are my arguments that have not been refuted. I challenge you again , list your arguments that you think have not been refuted than I will copy paste the refutation. This is the second time you are trying to run. LOL ...... malulah tambi ....
Truth.8 replied at 24-2-2015 03:20 PM
why need to have data? data can be manipulated by anyone...you need to experience it ....in order to experience, you need to visit ...of course you are a person on pc all the time...living under coconut shell..
Anybody who has gone to school knows that data is needed if we want to analyse and make a certain conclusion. Your argument is of a person who is unschooled. You just want to show off that you have been to Thailand (probably for the sex industry - wink wink) and you make such conclusion with just an observation. FYI , the people in Kota Bharu market leave their things when they go off to perform solat. Not a convincing argument from you. To further argue , you say you know some Kelantanese who are crooks. The same can be said of some Thais who could also be crooks.
Aiyoo , only been to Thailand already talk big. The worst part is that you don't even know what is data. Only people like you would manipulate data if it does not suit your argument.
...but DNA is modern issue not mention in quran...that why i says the hudud is outdated....sorry to says im not inconsistent rather sayings that if u muslims really want to implement the hudud, than it should arrest those taking bribe and killed them....
DNA is not a modern issue. Rather its a means to prove to a certain probability that a certain crime has indeed been committed. This is Takzir under the umbrella of Syariah. LOL , like I stated before , if you are ignorant , why advertise it? It is better if you learn about the issues first before making yourself appearing like a fool you are. Notice your inconsistency , now you want death for bribery but in the same time you reject Hudud. You are one confused person.
...i can post numberous that do not agreed on the hudud...1,000,000 Malaysians Say NO to Hudud Laws : https://www.facebook.com/pages/1 ... aws/173573486062899
People are not given a second chance to repent or correct themselves and they lose a palm that wouldnt grow back for stealing? This is utter nonsense!
LOL , the facebook page is TITLED '1,000,000 Malaysians say no to Hudud'. It does not mean the said number say no. You are just recycling already refuted arguments. I already asked this question in which you tried your best to avoid answering - what kind of theft would result the hand being chopped off. Certainly not both hands chopped off for stealing bread as argued by you earlier and the said person cannot 'basuh berak'. You still have not answered my question. Why are you so scared to answer but recycle the same refuted arguments over and over again? Something mentally wrong with you?
BTW , why don't you read the explanation by 'Iwan Keluarga' in your provided link. Don't tell me .... you probably would not read it but go on to argue about cannot 'basuh berak'. You are an ignoramus and will remain one forever.
is the verses explanation? it mention on masculine plural passive and etc...what kind explanation is this?
'I-Dina' in Quran98:5 is accusative masculine. Do you know what is the meaning of 'accusative case' in a sentence? It is used to mark a direct object in a transitive verb. Basically in this context , the word 'religion' is used to denote the sincerity in the worship of Allah and his commands. LOL , this is the problem with you , you have poor understanding of what you read. You need to be spoonfed in everything. Aiyoyo tambi , guna otak sikit lah.
of course i can't understand when there is no proper explanation...it rather confusing..
Confusing for you because you have very poor comprehension.
corruption ...taking bribe lah...is that too difficult for you understand?
Corruption comes in many forms -
(a) Bribery - extralegal means of payments to acquire favours
(b) Theft and Fraud -steal assets under one's authority by function of their position
(c) Institutional Corruption - conflict of interest not managed such that beneficiaries of projects or rescouce allocation can conrol the outcome or decisions
Therefore bribery is just a part of corruption. It can also be that a person is awarded a project due to (c) but his bid is the most competative and without kickbacks. It is just that the person has better 'cable'. How do you justify chopping of this particular person hand , in your case chopping off both his hands so that he cannot 'basuh berak' .... LOL
Can you give me a solution?
is all pin point already...u denial...
Translation : I actually have nothing but am trying to act and pretend that I have something ..... in other words , I , 'truth.8' is a master in auta. Too bad , you have been exposed for the auta you are.
HUDUD undang undang dari ALLAH?bukanke ALLAH maha pengasih dan pengampun?Kalau manusia suka-suka buat undang-undang agama...tak perlu lagi la...syurga dan neraka...tak perlu lagi ALLAH untuk menghukum,tak perlu lagi jawab kepada ALLAH lepas mati??????????????????????????????????????????????? ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????Kenapa perlu hukuman bila boleh mengajar manusia jalan yang benar?
Begitu juga dengan orang islam yang tinggal dinegara orang bukan islam...kalau tak suka undang-undang bukan islam keluar sahaja...tak perlu buat demo tepi jalan,tak perlu bunuh orang,tak perlu bom sana dan sini!!!!!
Anybody who has gone to school knows that data is needed if we want to analyse and make a certain conclusion. Your argument is of a person who is unschooled. You just want to show off that you have been to Thailand (probably for the sex industry - wink wink) and you make such conclusion with just an observation. FYI , the people in Kota Bharu market leave their things when they go off to perform solat. Not a convincing argument from you. To further argue , you say you know some Kelantanese who are crooks. The same can be said of some Thais who could also be crooks.
I have travel to few places but i would says Thailand is little safe compare to malaysia expect we the muslims doing choas in name of religion...other than that the buddhist peoples are nice, tolarant and not being racist...everyone is welcome in thailand ...
the moment muslims try control there...than come problem...the problem always on muslims not kafir...
For Kota Bharu, yes womens are more hard working than men who love to lepak...that show how lazy the kelantanses men are .......my brother who a convert and married to a kelantanese women...now in stake of poverty ...why? lazy.....i hve told many time to come from kelantan yet he did not listen...
Aiyoo , only been to Thailand already talk big. The worst part is that you don't even know what is data. Only people like you would manipulate data if it does not suit your argument.
Not talking big ...talking fact base on experiences.....data is not valid it is seeing and believing is the most accurate than data....
DNA is not a modern issue. Rather its a means to prove to a certain probability that a certain crime has indeed been committed. This is Takzir under the umbrella of Syariah. LOL , like I stated before , if you are ignorant , why advertise it? It is better if you learn about the issues first before making yourself appearing like a fool you are. Notice your inconsistency , now you want death for bribery but in the same time you reject Hudud. You are one confused person.
Some dna modern technology was found lately....now the authority using it for their investigation...hence hudud is outdated and not relevant...secondly, it is not from God rather man made law...
LOL , the facebook page is TITLED '1,000,000 Malaysians say no to Hudud'. It does not mean the said number say no. You are just recycling already refuted arguments. I already asked this question in which you tried your best to avoid answering - what kind of theft would result the hand being chopped off. Certainly not both hands chopped off for stealing bread as argued by you earlier and the said person cannot 'basuh berak'. You still have not answered my question. Why are you so scared to answer but recycle the same refuted arguments over and over again? Something mentally wrong with you?
there are more do not agreed on hudud......look at pas....this party are not able to develop their state and yet talk about hudud....hudud is for peoples do not open their mind but living under coconut shelll....meaning they reject every modern development...
BTW , why don't you read the explanation by 'Iwan Keluarga' in your provided link. Don't tell me .... you probably would not read it but go on to argue about cannot 'basuh berak'. You are an ignoramus and will remain one forever.
basuk berak , ambil air wuduk and etc.....cannot be perform if one hand or two chop off....is call babaric.....
[/quote]
[quote]'I-Dina' in Quran98:5 is accusative masculine. Do you know what is the meaning of 'accusative case' in a sentence? It is used to mark a direct object in a transitive verb. Basically in this context , the word 'religion' is used to denote the sincerity in the worship of Allah and his commands. LOL , this is the problem with you , you have poor understanding of what you read. You need to be spoonfed in everything. Aiyoyo tambi , guna otak sikit lah.
...and what commands is it? hudud? or other issue??? my otak is working fine....is your otak ok?
[/quote]
[quote]Confusing for you because you have very poor comprehension.
how can i hve poor comprehension when your fact base on rubbised ...just like our beloved PM says " rubbised"
Malaysia ‘Rubbish’, Najib
[/quote]
[quote]Corruption comes in many forms -
(a) Bribery - extralegal means of payments to acquire favours
(b) Theft and Fraud -steal assets under one's authority by function of their position
(c) Institutional Corruption - conflict of interest not managed such that beneficiaries of projects or rescouce allocation can conrol the outcome or decisions
corruption still corruption....corruption involved : giving contract /or approved contract, to enter university /or need job in goverment and etc.....bear in mind this peoples are working with fix income....not a theif rather earning living but out of greed...they take bribe and corruption involved...
we see the present situation here in malaysia ....
1) too many 'pendatang asing' hired in many sectors include in 24 hours market and...in every corner more and more pendatang .....
the local lose business and job opportunity....
surly it involved bribe to settle....otherwise why many pendatang ?
....and this leads our local involved in crime because no job and etc....
2). drug pusher.....where and how this coming? why only target prostitute from china when many prostitutes hanging in day time at tun sambathan? bribe involved?
3). car park. recently i park a car near bistro....i ask the 'jaga' can i park the car here because yelllow line ...he says 'boleh' boleh settle sama itu officer but some how i park eleswhere in proper parking area...
and etc
so , because of corruption and bribe the country and leads to many problem....even i do not agreed on hudud BUT if muslims so desprate want to implement such hudud......than you muslims can implment on hudud on corruption and bribe....and hang them not chop off hands...because for theif they are chances for them to repent and will return in true path....like i said, it is situation made them do such but for corruption and bribe...is not excuses because they given a job and responsbilities but they act out of greed to get more money....
Therefore bribery is just a part of corruption. It can also be that a person is awarded a project due to (c) but his bid is the most competative and without kickbacks. It is just that the person has better 'cable'. How do you justify chopping of this particular person hand , in your case chopping off both his hands so that he cannot 'basuh berak' .... LOL
already explained
Can you give me a solution?
already explained
[/quote]
[quote]
Translation : I actually have nothing but am trying to act and pretend that I have something ..... in other words , I , 'truth.8' is a master in auta. Too bad , you have been exposed for the auta you are.
Post time 16-2-2015 05:46 PM
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