thats what you think....even muslims here can manipulate the teachings of islam , what make you think this peoples do not manipulate the hudud...?
there is so many weakness in the system here ....it makes islam look bad...the isis, swearing using the quran and etc....
if we have corrupt peoples....they will corrupt /or manipulate the hudud....
that why islam cannot use witness with corrupt background, only good personality poeple can be witness...its not simply use someone like saiful or shafee to become witness, or with Sumpah something like that...
that why islam cannot use witness with corrupt background, only good personality poeple can be witness...its not simply use someone like saiful or shafee to become witness, or with Sumpah something like that...
good person? talk easy ...but you cannot find good person now....even PAS is a political party...now, they flighting each other...
hudud will be disaster if were to implement at present time...
Truth.8 replied at 4-3-2015 05:03 PM
meaning to says muslims alllow to lie to protect islam ?
another question, you says that i am lously liar.....in what way?? thank you
as for the Bible, the 10 commandements already sealed...NO lies
Ha ha , suddenly your understanding is that muslims are allowed to lie to protect Islam. Let see what bukhari 3:49:87 states
Narrated Um Kulthum bint Uqba:
That she heard Allah's Apostle saying, "He who makes peace between the people by inventing good information or saying good things, is not a liar."
Where does it state that muslims are allowed to lie to protect Islam? I dunno , if you are not drunk then you must be high on illegal pharmaceutical.
You are a liar who has to continue his lies in order to cover up his previous lies. Why did you lie in claiming that you are an ex muslim?
The 10 commandments is in the Quran. What say you?
To us muslims , the Quran is a guardian to the previous scriptures. The word in Quran5:48 is [size=5.2]وَمُهَيۡمِنًا , 'wamuhayminan' which comes from the word 'muhaymin' which means guardian or controller. This means that whatever is in say the bible and also in the Quran , we can regard it being the Word Of God.
Take for example , the challenge to drink poison per mark16:18 is not in the Quran. Therefore we muslims don't regard this being the truth nor the word of God. You admit to it because you are scared to drink weed killer (I would gladly buy it) aka poison per the challenge of mark16:18.
Where does it state that muslims are allowed to lie to protect Islam? I dunno , if you are not drunk then you must be high on illegal pharmaceutical.
Lying in IslamBy Abdullah Al Araby Like most religions, Islam in general, forbids lying. The Quran says, "Truly Allah guides not one who transgresses and lies." Surah 40:28. In the Hadith, Mohammed was also quoted as saying, "Be honest because honesty leads to goodness, and goodness leads to Paradise. Beware of falsehood because it leads to immorality, and immorality leads to Hell."
However, unlike most religions, within Islam there are certain provisions under which lying is not simply tolerated, but actually encouraged. The book "The spirit of Islam," by the Muslim scholar, Afif A. Tabbarah was written to promote Islam. On page 247, Tabbarah stated: "Lying is not always bad, to be sure; there are times when telling a lie is more profitable and better for the general welfare, and for the settlement of conciliation among people, than telling the truth. To this effect, the Prophet says: 'He is not a false person who (through lies) settles conciliation among people, supports good or says what is good."
In exploring this puzzling duplicity within Islam, we will examine first some examples from recent and ancient Islamic history. These examples demonstrate that lying is a common policy amongst Islamic clerics and statesmen.
In June of 1967 Egypt was defeated by Israel and lost the Sinai Peninsula during the "Six Day War." Subsequently, Egypt's primary focus became to regain the lost territory. President Nasser, and then, President Sadat, adopted the motto: "No voice should rise over the voice of The Battle." The soldiers that had been drafted in 1967 were kept in service and remained on high alert in the expectation that at any day "the battle" would ensue. Nonetheless, years pasted and Egypt's people became disgruntle with the political hype and the "no peace, and no war" status. In 1972 Sadat proclaimed with finality that it was to be the year for the long anticipated battle. Throughout the year he swore, "I swear to you by my honor that this year will not pass by, before we launch The Battle." People believed him because he was staking his reputation and honor through an oath. To everyone's amazement the year passed without a single shot being fired. As a result many, inside and outside Egypt, began to dismiss him as a "hot air bluff". This opinion was confirmed in the following year of 1973. He made no further mention of his oath about the battle. Many of the draftees were released and numerous officers were given vacation furloughs. Then without warning, in October of 1973, he launched the attack and what was known as the Yom Kippur war began.
As a military commander, Sadat was expected to use the element of surprise to trick the enemy. As a devout Muslim, Sadat was not the least bit concerned about his un-kept oath. He understood that the history and teachings of Islam would exempt him from spiritual accountability if he used lies as a foundation for a strategic military maneuver.
This point is proven by many incidences in the life of Mohammed. He often lied and instructed his followers to do the same. He rationalized that the prospect of success in missions to extend Islam's influence overrode Allah's initial prohibitions against lying. A good example of sanctioned lying is the account of the assassination of Kaab Ibn al-Ashrf, a member of the Jewish tribe, Banu al-Nudair. It had been reported that Kaab had shown support for the Quraishites in their battle against Mohammed. This was compounded by another report that infuriated Mohammed. It was alleged that Kaab had recited amorous poetry to Muslim women. Mohammed asked for volunteers to rid him of Kaab Ibn al-Ashraf. As Mohammed put it, Kaab had "Harmed Allah and His Apostle." At that time Kaab Ibn al-Ashraf, and his tribe were strong, so it was not easy for a stranger to infiltrate and execute the task. A Muslim man by the name of Ibn Muslima, volunteered for the murderous project on the condition that Mohammed would allow him to lie. With Mohammed's consent, Ibn Muslima, went to Kaab and told him fabricated stories that reflected discontent about Mohammed's leadership. When he had gained Kaab's trust he lured him away from his house one night and murdered him in a remote area under the cover of darkness.
A similar example can be found in the story of killing Shaaban Ibn Khalid al-Hazly. It was rumored that Shaaban was gathering an army to wage war on Mohammed. Mohammed retaliated by ordering Abdullah Ibn Anis to kill Shaaban. Again, the would-be killer asked the prophet's permission to lie. Mohammed agreed and then ordered the killer to lie by stating that he was a member of the Khazaa clan. When Shaaban saw Abdullah coming, he asked him, "From what tribe are you?" Abdullah answered, "From Khazaa." He then added, "I have heard that you are gathering an army to fight Mohammed and I came to join you." Abdullah started walking with Shaaban telling him how Mohammed came to them with the heretical teachings of Islam, and complained how Mohammed badmouthed the Arab patriarchs and ruined the Arab's hopes. They continued in conversation until they arrived at Shaaban's tent. Shaaban's companions departed and Shaaban invited Abdullah to come inside and rest. Abdullah sat there until the atmosphere was quiet and he sensed that everyone was asleep. Abdullah severed Shaaban's head and carried it to Mohammed as a trophy. When Mohammed sighted Abdullah, he jubilantly shouted, "Your face has been triumphant (Aflaha al- wajho)." Abdullah returned the greeting by saying, "It is your face, Apostle of Allah, who has been triumphant. (Aflaha wajhoka, ye rasoul Allah)." Provisions for lying in Islam Most Muslims are familiar with the principles of Islam that will justify lying in situations where they sense the need to do so. Among these are:
War is deception.
The necessities justify the forbidden.
If faced by two evils, choose the lesser of the two.
These principles are derived from passages found in the Quran and the Hadith. In the Quran, Allah, allegedly, says:" Allah will not call you to account for what is futile in your oaths, but He will call you to account for your deliberate oaths: for expiation, feed ten indigent persons, on a scale of the average for the food of your families; or clothe them; or give a slave his freedom. If that is beyond your means, fast for three days. That is the expiation for the oaths ye have sworn. But keep to your oaths. Thus doth Allah make clear to you His signs, that ye may be grateful." Surah 5:89 "Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness (vain) in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts; and He is Oft-forgiving, Most Forbearing." Surah 2:225 "Any one who, after accepting faith in Allah, utters Unbelief, except under compulsion, his heart remaining firm in Faith - but such as open their breast to Unbelief, on them is Wrath from Allah, and theirs will be a dreadful Penalty." Surah 16: 106
The noted Islamic commentator, Al-Tabary explained Surah 16:106 as a verse that had been revealed to Mohammed after he learned that Ammar Ibn Yasser was forced to deny his faith in Mohammed when kidnapped by the Banu Moghera tribe. Mohammed consoled Ammar by telling him, "If they turned, you turn." (Meaning: if they again capture you, you are allowed to deny me again.) These and similar passages from the Quran clearly reveal that Muslims' unintentional lies are forgivable and that even their intentional lies can be absolved by performing extra duties. It is also clear that if forced to do so, Muslims can lie while under oath and can even falsely deny faith in Allah, as long as they maintain the profession of faith in their hearts. In the Hadith, Mohammed, emphasizes the same concept.
From "Ehiaa Oloum al-Din," by the famous Islamic scholar al-Ghazali, Vol. 3: PP.284-287:
One of Mohammed's daughters, Umm Kalthoum, testified that she had never heard the Apostle of Allah condone lying, except in these three situations:
For reconciliation among people.
In war.
Amongst spouses, to keep peace in the family.
One passage from the Hadith quotes Mohammed as saying: "The sons of Adam are accountable for all lies except those uttered to help bring reconciliation between Muslims."
Another says, "Aba Kahl, reconcile among people."(Meaning: even through lying.)
The following quote demonstrates the broadness of situations in which the prophet permitted lying. "The sons of Adam are accountable for all lies with these exceptions: During war because war is deception, to reconcile among two quarreling men, and for a man to appease his wife." The principle of Al-Takeyya The Arabic word, "Takeyya", means "to prevent," or guard against. The principle of Al Takeyya conveys the understanding that Muslims are permitted to lie as a preventive measure against anticipated harm to one's self or fellow Muslims. This principle gives Muslims the liberty to lie under circumstances that they perceive as life threatening. They can even deny the faith, if they do not mean it in their hearts. Al-Takeyya is based on the following Quranic verse: "Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution (prevention), that ye may Guard yourselves from them (prevent them from harming you.) But Allah cautions you (To remember) Himself; for the final goal is to Allah." Surah 3: 28
According to this verse a Muslim can pretend to befriend infidels (in violation of the teachings of Islam) and display adherence with their unbelief to prevent them from harming him.
Under the concept of Takeyya and short of killing another human being, if under the threat of force, it is legitimate for Muslims to act contrary to their faith. The following actions are acceptable:
Drink wine, abandon prayers, and skip fasting during Ramadan.
Renounce belief in Allah.
Kneel in homage to a deity other than Allah.
Utter insincere oaths.
The implications of the principle of Al-Takeyya Unfortunately, when dealing with Muslims, one must keep in mind that Muslims can communicate something with apparent sincerity, when in reality they may have just the opposite agenda in their hearts. Bluntly stated, Islam permits Muslims to lie anytime that they perceive that their own well-being, or that of Islam, is threatened.
In the sphere of international politics, the question is: Can Muslim countries be trusted to keep their end of the agreements that they sign with non-Muslim nations? It is a known Islamic practice, that when Muslims are weak they can agree with most anything. Once they become strong, then they negate what they formerly vowed.
The principle of sanctioning lying for the cause of Islam bears grave implications in matters relating to the spread of the religion of Islam in the West. Muslim activists employ deceptive tactics in their attempts to polish Islam's image and make it more attractive to prospective converts. They carefully try to avoid, obscure, and omit mentioning any of the negative Islamic texts and teachings.
An example of Islamic deception is that Muslim activists always quote the passages of the Quran from the early part of Mohammed's ministry while living in Mecca. These texts are peaceful and exemplify tolerance towards those that are not followers of Islam. All the while, they are fully aware that most of these passages were abrogated (cancelled and replaced) by passages that came after he migrated to Medina. The replacement verses reflect prejudice, intolerance, and endorse violence upon unbelievers In conclusion, it is imperative to understand, that Muslim leaders can use this loop-hole in their religion, to absolve them from any permanent commitment. It is also important to know that what Muslim activists say to spread Islam may not always be the whole truth. When dealing with Muslims, what they say is not the issue. The real issue is, what they actually mean in their hearts.
You are a liar who has to continue his lies in order to cover up his previous lies. Why did you lie in claiming that you are an ex muslim?
so am i lously liar?? thats what you mentioned...
The 10 commandments is in the Quran. What say you?
To us muslims , the Quran is a guardian to the previous scriptures. The word in Quran5:48 is [size=5.2]وَمُهَيۡمِنًا , 'wamuhayminan' which comes from the word 'muhaymin' which means guardian or controller. This means that whatever is in say the bible and also in the Quran , we can regard it being the Word Of God
nay...our 10 commandement says sabbath..yours no sabbath...different god
.
Take for example , the challenge to drink poison per mark16:18 is not in the Quran. Therefore we muslims don't regard this being the truth nor the word of God. You admit to it because you are scared to drink weed killer (I would gladly buy it) aka poison per the challenge of mark16:18.
This is a problem with you when you read an article without any critical thoughts. You now need to explain the following ; in your article , I quote bitpart :
From "Ehiaa Oloum al-Din," by the famous Islamic scholar al-Ghazali, Vol. 3: PP.284-287:
One of Mohammed's daughters, Umm Kalthoum, testified that she had never heard the Apostle of Allah condone lying, except in these three situations:
1. For reconciliation among people.
2. In war.
3. Amongst spouses, to keep peace in the family.
One passage from the Hadith quotes Mohammed as saying: "The sons of Adam are accountable for all lies except those uttered to help bring reconciliation between Muslims."
Another says, "Aba Kahl, reconcile among people."(Meaning: even through lying.)
The following quote demonstrates the broadness of situations in which the prophet permitted lying. "The sons of Adam are accountable for all lies with these exceptions: During war because war is deception, to reconcile among two quarreling men, and for a man to appease his wife."
How is it in the same article :
Under the concept of Takeyya and short of killing another human being, if under the threat of force, it is legitimate for Muslims to act contrary to their faith. The following actions are acceptable:
a. Drink wine, abandon prayers, and skip fasting during Ramadan.
b. Renounce belief in Allah.
c. Kneel in homage to a deity other than Allah.
d. Utter insincere oaths.
The implications of the principle of Al-Takeyya Unfortunately, when dealing with Muslims, one must keep in mind that Muslims can communicate something with apparent sincerity, when in reality they may have just the opposite agenda in their hearts. Bluntly stated, Islam permits Muslims to lie anytime that they perceive that their own well-being, or that of Islam, is threatened.
Can you now explain to me how is it that 1 /2 /3 = a / b / c / d ?? Anybody , apart from you , would know that there is a huge difference.
Ha ha , you have been caught trying to lie again ..... you don't look good. Is this Christian 'takkiya'?
The concept of 'takkiya' is in the bible.
Mark14:66-71 , Peter denied that he knows Jesus.
Paul took the biblical concept of 'takkiya' to a new level in 1cor9:19-22 (NIV)
19 Though I am free and belong to no one, I have made myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible.
20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law.
21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law.
22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some.
In other words Paul used 'takkiya' in his proselytization work.
I believe, as at present advised, that when one is asked by murderers bent on taking the life of someone hiding in the house whether he is in, no answer should be given; and if this betrays him, his death will be imputable to the murderers, not to the other's silence. Or he may use an equivocal expression, and say 'He is not at home,' or something like that. And this can be defended by a great number of instances found in the Old Testament. Or he may say simply that he is not there, and if his conscience tells him that he ought to say that, then he will not speak against his conscience, nor will he sin. Nor is St. Augustine really opposed to any of these methods.
LOL , your argument about 'takkiya' in Islam falls flat as what you argue is different to what was put forward by Prophet Muhammad(saw). However we can see that the concept of 'takkiya' is already in the bible from Peter to Paul who took it to another level then perfected by the Church and a fancy name given - The Doctrine of Mental Reservation.
so am i lously liar?? thats what you mentioned...
The bottomline is that you are a liar albeit a lousy one.
nay...our 10 commandement says sabbath..yours no sabbath...different god
What is sabbath? It is a day where one goes for prayers in a congregation. Lets see the belief in God
Judaism : 1 God
Islam : 1 God
Christianity : 3 in 1 God or in your case 2 in 1 God
Islam or Christianity is the odd one out?
already debunked along time ago...u can google it
You should be able to provide the link ..... which you can't. Therefore you cannot even refute the argument of mark16:18.
How about it? You claim the bible to be the truth. Can I get you to drink weed killer. No worries , I would buy the weed killer. All you have to do is to drink it to prove the truthfulness of the bible. If you are ok as per the claim of the bible , I will become christian.
Ha ha , you have been caught trying to lie again ..... you don't look good. Is this Christian 'takkiya'?
The concept of 'takkiya' is in the bible.
Mark14:66-71 , Peter denied that he knows Jesus.
Paul took the biblical concept of 'takkiya' to a new level in 1cor9:19-22 (NIV)
takkiya in Bible? lying again ? here is the youtube:
another one here:
The bottomline is that you are a liar albeit a lousy one.
lie about my faith, is it?
What is sabbath? It is a day where one goes for prayers in a congregation. Lets see the belief in God
Judaism : 1 God
Islam : 1 God
Christianity : 3 in 1 God or in your case 2 in 1 God
Islam or Christianity is the odd one out?
The Bible in 10 commandment regardless what version the Sabbath still there but your Quran erase it...
so? is your god same as the God spoke to Moses on Sabbath??
How about it? You claim the bible to be the truth. Can I get you to drink weed killer. No worries , I would buy the weed killer. All you have to do is to drink it to prove the truthfulness of the bible. If you are ok as per the claim of the bible , I will become christian.
Bible is my remedy compare to Quran when muslims killing here and there...so who drinking the weed killer??
Apa daa tambi. Now you are looking at avenues in trying to run. You stated that in Islam , there is 'takkiya' and provided the article in your post#106. However there is big contradiction in it. Per the said article
One of Mohammed's daughters, Umm Kalthoum, testified that she had never heard the Apostle of Allah condone lying, except in these three situations:
1. For reconciliation among people.
2. In war.
3. Amongst spouses, to keep peace in the family.
One passage from the Hadith quotes Mohammed as saying: "The sons of Adam are accountable for all lies except those uttered to help bring reconciliation between Muslims."
Another says, "Aba Kahl, reconcile among people."(Meaning: even through lying.)
The following quote demonstrates the broadness of situations in which the prophet permitted lying. "The sons of Adam are accountable for all lies with these exceptions: During war because war is deception, to reconcile among two quarreling men, and for a man to appease his wife."
However it then stated as follows :
Under the concept of Takeyya and short of killing another human being, if under the threat of force, it is legitimate for Muslims to act contrary to their faith. The following actions are acceptable:
a. Drink wine, abandon prayers, and skip fasting during Ramadan.
b. Renounce belief in Allah.
c. Kneel in homage to a deity other than Allah.
d. Utter insincere oaths.
The implications of the principle of Al-Takeyya Unfortunately, when dealing with Muslims, one must keep in mind that Muslims can communicate something with apparent sincerity, when in reality they may have just the opposite agenda in their hearts. Bluntly stated, Islam permits Muslims to lie anytime that they perceive that their own well-being, or that of Islam, is threatened.
Can you now explain just how 1 / 2 / 3 = a / b / c / d as claimed in the article which you reference to? LOL , you have again been caught trying to lie. It now appears that lying is second nature to you.
takkiya in Bible? lying again ? here is the youtube:
For sure there is 'takkiya' in the bible as I have provided
(1) Peter denyin that he knows Jesus , mark14:66-71
(2) Paul taking 'takkiya' to another level in his proselytization work , 1cor9:19-22
(3) The Church in coming up with the fancy term = Doctrine of Mental Reservation.
Until now you have no answers.
LOL , all you have is a youtube video of Arafat , Anjem Chowdary and Abu Hamza? Arafat was a secularist , his objective was never Islamic but used it for his own end. Anjem Chowdary is known being a nutcase. Abu Hamza is known to be in the minority of far right muslim. Your argument of 'takkiya' in Islam is centered on these individuals. You don't look good. In fact you just advertise your ignorance.
lie about my faith, is it?
That is one of it. Again I ask , why do you lie that you are a former muslim? Any reason for you to lie as it is very evident that you were never a muslim to begin with. Are you a serial liar?
The Bible in 10 commandment regardless what version the Sabbath still there but your Quran erase it...
so? is your god same as the God spoke to Moses on Sabbath??
This shows your ignorance. One of the activities in sabbat is to worship in congregation which is what we muslims do in our Friday Prayers. A day of rest as God rested in the 7th day is just nonsense. How can God get tired and need a day to rest.
LOL , Allah is the God of Prophet Moosa(as). Wah!! To you christians , God only spoke to Moses during sabbath? Can you come to your senses ...
Bible is my remedy compare to Quran when muslims killing here and there...so who drinking the weed killer??
u judge yourself lah..
Can you now show me where in the Quran that states of killing here and there? All records point to the fact that christians tops in killings. Genocide is in the bible. There are a coiple of verses but I will only give 1 ; 1sameul15:1-3 (NIV)
1 Samuel said to Saul, “I am the one the Lord sent to anoint you king over his people Israel; so listen now to the message from the Lord.
2 This is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt.
3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy[a] all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”
Not enough with killing all the men , women , children and infants ; even the animals were not spared.
This is what is meant by killing here and there.
My challenge still stand. You claim that the bible is the truth. Ok then , can you now drink weed killer (I will buy it). Mark16:18 states that you would not be harmed. How about it? Since you claim the bible is the truth , why the fear? Now is you rchance to prove the truthfulness of the bible.
However you are just trying to run from this issue. Is there something wrong here about the truthfulness of the bible?
For sure there is 'takkiya' in the bible as I have provided
(1) Peter denyin that he knows Jesus , mark14:66-71
(2) Paul taking 'takkiya' to another level in his proselytization work , 1cor9:19-22
(3) The Church in coming up with the fancy term = Doctrine of Mental Reservation.
Until now you have no answers.
i provid you one answer as you good in manipulate ...the denying of jesus by peter is out of fear....he lies....but he admit it and hanged himself...thanks for showing your stupdity..
LOL , all you have is a youtube video of Arafat , Anjem Chowdary and Abu Hamza? Arafat was a secularist , his objective was never Islamic but used it for his own end. Anjem Chowdary is known being a nutcase. Abu Hamza is known to be in the minority of far right muslim. Your argument of 'takkiya' in Islam is centered on these individuals. You don't look good. In fact you just advertise your ignorance.
so you are many sects of muslims ??
[/quote]
[quote]That is one of it. Again I ask , why do you lie that you are a former muslim? Any reason for you to lie as it is very evident that you were never a muslim to begin with. Are you a serial liar?
have you know me personally? have you check my IC??
me waiting for your answer...thank you
This shows your ignorance. One of the activities in sabbat is to worship in congregation which is what we muslims do in our Friday Prayers. A day of rest as God rested in the 7th day is just nonsense. How can God get tired and need a day to rest.
God not tired...this is tactic muslims used (to lie) convert others....GOD rested meaning HE show an example how humans on earth should do:
work 6 days
rested 1 day to worshipped in congregation which is on Sabbath as remembrance that GOD created 6 days and 7 day HE rested/or stop all the creations..
from here all creations understood that the earth was on creation 6 days and 1 day was rest day for us to remember GOD which is Sabbath...is pure understanding on GOD creations.
muslims will do it on Friday..why? is because God stop all the creation on friday? no...they do not understand the meaning...
so, the Bible in 100 version, the Sabbath was not remove but in the quran it was removed...
LOL , Allah is the God of Prophet Moosa(as). Wah!! To you christians , God only spoke to Moses during sabbath? Can you come to your senses ...
God spoke to Moses by giving 10 commandments ...one of the commandement was Sabbath....where is sabbath in 10 commandements in the quran? does same God??
[/quote]
[quote]Can you now show me where in the Quran that states of killing here and there? All records point to the fact that christians tops in killings. Genocide is in the bible. There are a coiple of verses but I will only give 1 ; 1sameul15:1-3 (NIV)
see the reality of the world....what muslims doing? are you denial again???
My challenge still stand. You claim that the bible is the truth. Ok then , can you now drink weed killer (I will buy it). Mark16:18 states that you would not be harmed. How about it? Since you claim the bible is the truth , why the fear? Now is you rchance to prove the truthfulness of the bible.
your challenge can be thrown in drain....thank you
However you are just trying to run from this issue. Is there something wrong here about the truthfulness of the bible?
If the Bible is fake, I would embrace islam...thank you
Truth.8 replied at 5-3-2015 01:02 PM
i provid you one answer as you good in manipulate ...the denying of jesus by peter is out of fear....he lies....but he admit it and hanged himself...thanks for showing your stupdity..
The key point here is that Peter lied. You stated that Christians are not allowed to lie. Peter was one the closest follower of Jesus but he lied to save his skin. In other words he ascribed to 'takkiya'. Paul did one better , he ascribe to 'takkiya' to proselytise. The church made it into a doctrine of lying (or takkiya) which they gave it a fancy name : The Doctrine of Mental Reservation.
In other words , takkiya is in the bible. BTW , Peter did not hang himself , it was Judas. Can you get your biblical facts right
so you are many sects of muslims ??
A secularist is not a sect. A nut job is not a sect. A far right is not a sect.
Do you know what is a sect? It is something like Catholics , Protestent , 7th day Adventist etc
have you know me personally? have you check my IC??
me waiting for your answer...thank you
I pray to Allah I would not know you personally. Gives me the shivers that I would know you.
Do I need to check your IC? I say no because you don't even know the basics of Islam. That tells me that you were never a muslim to begin with. The question here is that why are you trying to lie that you were muslim? Christians like this sort of BS. They like to tell people that they were former muslims. Somehow or rather they think their status in Christianity gets elevated if they were former muslims. That shows how desperate Christians are to proselytise muslims. Why so desperate?
God not tired...this is tactic muslims used (to lie) convert others....GOD rested meaning HE show an example how humans on earth should do:
work 6 days
rested 1 day to worshipped in congregation which is on Sabbath as remembrance that GOD created 6 days and 7 day HE rested/or stop all the creations..
from here all creations understood that the earth was on creation 6 days and 1 day was rest day for us to remember GOD which is Sabbath...is pure understanding on GOD creations.
muslims will do it on Friday..why? is because God stop all the creation on friday? no...they do not understand the meaning...
so, the Bible in 100 version, the Sabbath was not remove but in the quran it was removed...
When God rested (in the bible) , isn't it a fact that God was tired. The definition of rest :
Allow to be inactive in order to regain strength or health:
A state of trying to regain strength is to be tired. What nonsense is this that God is trying to show an example.
You again missed the point. One of the major activity of Shabbat is to pray in congregation , ie. what muslims do on Fridays. In this sense we muslims observe Shabbat more than you Christians.
There is an injunction for Friday prayers in the Quran62:9-10. What is the issue here?
God spoke to Moses by giving 10 commandments ...one of the commandement was Sabbath....where is sabbath in 10 commandements in the quran? does same God??
See above
see the reality of the world....what muslims doing? are you denial again???
However the problem here , Christians are killing at a rate of 10x or even more. Look at the number of people killed in Iraq , Afghanistan in the illegal invasion plus the people killed by drones. LOL , are you not abreast of what is happening in this world? The PM of UK is Christian , the President of USA is Christian. The one in denial is really you and only you.
your challenge can be thrown in drain....thank you
Why is it so? Can you give me a valid reason? Mark16:18 clearly states that Christian like you would not be harmed if you pick up poisonous snakes or drink poison. You stated that the bible is the truth. All I need is proof from you. Mark16:18 is a good challenge to prove the truthfulness of the bible per your claim. Why are you now so scared to prove it? Unless the bible is not the truth as per your claim.
If the Bible is fake, I would embrace islam...thank you
Then lets get on with the challenge of Mark16:18. I will get the weed killer for you to drink. When can we do it? I will try to get bro Gunblade and / or bro Mashimaru83 to be the witness(es) of you showing us that the bible is the truth. I am sure they would agree to it.
The key point here is that Peter lied. You stated that Christians are not allowed to lie. Peter was one the closest follower of Jesus but he lied to save his skin. In other words he ascribed to 'takkiya'. Paul did one better , he ascribe to 'takkiya' to proselytise. The church made it into a doctrine of lying (or takkiya) which they gave it a fancy name : The Doctrine of Mental Reservation.
is not takkiya...In Matthew 26:69-75 (also Luke 22:55-62 and John 18:17-18, 25-27) the Apostle Peter denied Jesus and lied about knowing Him. So why did he do this? The answer is simple. He was afraid. Of what was he afraid? Most probably he was afraid of joining Jesus in His trial before the Sanhedrin, which he knew was probably going to end in Jesus' death. Remember, Jesus had been threatened by the Jewish leadership many times before (Matthew 12:14; John 8:59; 10:31; 11:8), and undoubtedly Peter knew of this. So if Peter had identified himself with Jesus, Peter was most probably afraid he would join Him in His fate.
Peter did not lie to protect his faith but out of fear...he just did not admit Jesus ....not takkiya...he did not bring problem to peopels but muslims use takkiya to spread islam and others....u can see the youtube...we do not do such....muslims like you , zakir naik and few others will use Bible to support that Muhammad is mentioned in Bible and in meantime muslims will says Bible is corrupted......like snake...they twiste here and there ...great liar, deceiver and manipulator ...that suit you...
A secularist is not a sect. A nut job is not a sect. A far right is not a sect.
Do you know what is a sect? It is something like Catholics , Protestent , 7th day Adventist etc
but they are muslims who read the Quran...but they talk double, jihah and war...
Christians never does that....
I pray to Allah I would not know you personally. Gives me the shivers that I would know you.
so, you do not know me but you make the judgement about me? is that how islam teaches you???
Do I need to check your IC?
you accuse me this and that....but you never know me personally. how that justify?
I say no because you don't even know the basics of Islam. That tells me that you were never a muslim to begin with. The question here is that why are you trying to lie that you were muslim? Christians like this sort of BS. They like to tell people that they were former muslims. Somehow or rather they think their status in Christianity gets elevated if they were former muslims. That shows how desperate Christians are to proselytise muslims. Why so desperate?
another one of your assumption? i guess so...
[/quote]
[quote]When God rested (in the bible) , isn't it a fact that God was tired. The definition of rest :
Isaiah 4 talks about God never gets weary, never gets tired.
...but liar plus manipulator muslim like u will twist God words to convert others to your faith...this i have seen myself..
You again missed the point. One of the major activity of Shabbat is to pray in congregation , ie. what muslims do on Fridays. In this sense we muslims observe Shabbat more than you Christians.
Shabbat is saturday not friday....Friday practised by Hindus....you can ask your good friend meenachi sepi..or visit any hindu temples you see them gathered on friday prayer ....
There is an injunction for Friday prayers in the Quran62:9-10. What is the issue here?
..yet the sabbath was removed....Sabbath was written hands by GOD to Moses.....Muhammad remove it....
8 “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
so what God telling here or the purpose of creating the earth and universe 6 days and rested 7 day is an example for HIS creations to work 6 days and 7 day to be rested and gathered in places of worshipped to remember HIS work and etc....
GOD never tired nor rest is an example...
Isaiah 4 talks about God never gets weary, never gets tired.
However the problem here , Christians are killing at a rate of 10x or even more. Look at the number of people killed in Iraq , Afghanistan in the illegal invasion plus the people killed by drones. LOL , are you not abreast of what is happening in this world? The PM of UK is Christian , the President of USA is Christian. The one in denial is really you and only you.
you will come with outdated source....militant muslims and etc are increasing to make one world which islamic state...this is disaster ...
Then lets get on with the challenge of Mark16:18. I will get the weed killer for you to drink. When can we do it? I will try to get bro Gunblade and / or bro Mashimaru83 to be the witness(es) of you showing us that the bible is the truth. I am sure they would agree to it.
the weed killer is ur umat...joining the militant to over throw the world into islamic state...they die and bomb themselves...Bible reading peoples like me are peaceful ....that is the fact
and you dont need to repeat when you have no clue....othewise you look like the following video, please watch and ponder..thank you
Truth.8 replied at 5-3-2015 05:01 PM
is not takkiya...In Matthew 26:69-75 (also Luke 22:55-62 and John 18:17-18, 25-27) the Apostle Peter denied Jesus and lied about knowing Him. So why did he do this? The answer is simple. He was afraid. Of what was he afraid? Most probably he was afraid of joining Jesus in His trial before the Sanhedrin, which he knew was probably going to end in Jesus' death. Remember, Jesus had been threatened by the Jewish leadership many times before (Matthew 12:14; John 8:59; 10:31; 11:8), and undoubtedly Peter knew of this. So if Peter had identified himself with Jesus, Peter was most probably afraid he would join Him in His fate.
Peter did not lie to protect his faith but out of fear...he just did not admit Jesus ....not takkiya...he did not bring problem to peopels but muslims use takkiya to spread islam and others....u can see the youtube...we do not do such....muslims like you , zakir naik and few others will use Bible to support that Muhammad is mentioned in Bible and in meantime muslims will says Bible is corrupted......like snake...they twiste here and there ...great liar, deceiver and manipulator ...that suit you...
LOL , I now have caught you trying to lie and having a forked tongue. You argue that the action of Peter in mark14:66-71 is not 'takkiya' and the following is your explanation:
Apostle Peter denied Jesus and lied about knowing Him. So why did he do this? The answer is simple. He was afraid. Of what was he afraid? Most probably he was afraid of joining Jesus in His trial before the Sanhedrin, which he knew was probably going to end in Jesus' death. Remember, Jesus had been threatened by the Jewish leadership many times before (Matthew 12:14; John 8:59; 10:31; 11:8), and undoubtedly Peter knew of this. So if Peter had identified himself with Jesus, Peter was most probably afraid he would join Him in His fate.
Peter did not lie to protect his faith but out of fear...he just did not admit Jesus ....not takkiya
Your explanation is exactly what Quran16:106 stated and I copy paste bit part from your post#106 :
"Any one who, after accepting faith in Allah, utters Unbelief, except under compulsion, his heart remaining firm in Faith - but such as open their breast to Unbelief, on them is Wrath from Allah, and theirs will be a dreadful Penalty." Surah 16: 106
The noted Islamic commentator, Al-Tabary explained Surah 16:106 as a verse that had been revealed to Mohammed after he learned that Ammar Ibn Yasser was forced to deny his faith in Mohammed when kidnapped by the Banu Moghera tribe. Mohammed consoled Ammar by telling him, "If they turned, you turn." (Meaning: if they again capture you, you are allowed to deny me again.)
However with muslims in Quran16:106 , we are practicing 'takkiya' , your post#106 bitpart :
The principle of sanctioning lying for the cause of Islam bears grave implications in matters relating to the spread of the religion of Islam in the West. Muslim activists employ deceptive tactics in their attempts to polish Islam's image and make it more attractive to prospective converts. They carefully try to avoid, obscure, and omit mentioning any of the negative Islamic texts and teachings.
LOL , to you : if a Christian lies , it is ok as he is fearful for his life as what Peter did in Mark14:66-71. However in the identical situation , a muslim is practicing 'takkiya'. You have been exposed of having a lying tongue. Why are you so deceitful?
You still have not explained of
- Paul in practicing 'takkiya' in his proselytisation work per 1cor9:19-22
- the church perfecting the art of 'takkiya' and giving it a fancy name , The Doctrine of Mental Reservation
but they are muslims who read the Quran...but they talk double, jihah and war...
Christians never does that....
In the same vein , George Bush was a bible thumping Christian , the same as Tony Blair. However in their illegal invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan , more than a million innocents died. I already given you the death toll from drone strikes. For every target killed , more than 20 innocents die. The killings ordered by these Christians already exceed the killings by ISIS. Up till 2010 , out of 41 targets 1147 people were killed and these drone strikes are still going on :
they kill vastly more people than their targets, often needing to strike multiple times. Attempts to kill 41 men resulted in the deaths of an estimated 1,147 people, as of 24 November.
Reprieve, sifting through reports compiled by the Bureau of Investigative Journalism, examined cases in which specific people were targeted by drones multiple times. Their data, shared with the Guardian, raises questions about the accuracy of US intelligence guiding strikes that US officials describe using words like “clinical” and “precise.”
“Drone strikes have been sold to the American public on the claim that they’re ‘precise’. But they are only as precise as the intelligence that feeds them. There is nothing precise about intelligence that results in the deaths of 28 unknown people, including women and children, for every ‘bad guy’ the US goes after,” said Reprieve’s Jennifer Gibson, who spearheaded the group’s study.
The data cohort is only a fraction of those killed by US drones overall. Reprieve did not focus on named targets struck only once. Neither Reprieve nor the Guardian examined the subset of drone strikes that do not target specific people: the so-called “signature strikes” that attack people based on a pattern of behavior considered suspicious, rather than intelligence tying their targets to terrorist activity. An analytically conservative Council on Foreign Relations tally assesses that 500 drone strikes outside of Iraq and Afghanistan have killed 3,674 people.
Probably the killings of innocents ordered by Christians (Iraq , Afghanistan and drone strikes) already exceed those killed by ISIS.
So how?
so, you do not know me but you make the judgement about me? is that how islam teaches you???
you accuse me this and that....but you never know me personally. how that justify?
another one of your assumption? i guess so...
Like I stated , you don't even know the most basic of Islam , how in the world can you be a former muslim? If you want to lie - PRO lah sikit. You are already a proven liar. The funny part is why are you trying to lie that you are a former muslim? What do you get by claiming to be a former muslim? You looking for celebrity status amongst Christians or what?
Isaiah 4 talks about God never gets weary, never gets tired.
...but liar plus manipulator muslim like u will twist God words to convert others to your faith...this i have seen myself..
Isaiah4 talks about God not getting tired? Isaiah4 has only 6 verses and none state of God not getting tired. Are you sure you know what you are talking about? LOL , I am not even interested in converting anyone. It all comes from Allah. However I am tired of your BS about the Quran and the bible. When we look at the actual verses it is lot different than what you argue about.
The question here why does God need a rest? Gen2:3
Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.
There is no indication that God made it being an example per your argument , your post#110 bitpart
God not tired...this is tactic muslims used (to lie) convert others....GOD rested meaning HE show an example how humans on earth should do:
work 6 days
rested 1 day to worshipped in congregation which is on Sabbath as remembrance that GOD created 6 days and 7 day HE rested/or stop all the creations..
Where is it in gen2:3 that God rested to make it an example for people to rest after working 6 days? It is stated plainly - '....he rested from all the work of creating...'. This means that God in gen2:3 rested from all the work done , ie. God in the bible was tired. LOL , God can be tired? What nonsense is this?
Shabbat is saturday not friday....Friday practised by Hindus....you can ask your good friend meenachi sepi..or visit any hindu temples you see them gathered on friday prayer ....
Why is it saturday? In genesis1 , it is only stated day 1 to day 6. There is no mention of Sunday till Friday. The very least in the Quran it is stated Friday for congregation prayers. Does it matter if the Hindus has theirs on Friday? There is no significance.
..yet the sabbath was removed....Sabbath was written hands by GOD to Moses.....Muhammad remove it....
8 “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
so what God telling here or the purpose of creating the earth and universe 6 days and rested 7 day is an example for HIS creations to work 6 days and 7 day to be rested and gathered in places of worshipped to remember HIS work and etc....
GOD never tired nor rest is an example...
Isaiah 4 talks about God never gets weary, never gets tired.
The question here is why saturday? The bible states of day 1 to day 6. No mention of day 1 being sunday. To remember his work is one thing , therefore the congregation prayers. However the underlined (as above) states that God rested in day 7. The definition of rest is to recuperate lost energy meaning one is tired. Ha ha , the biblical God is tired , this is utter nonsense.
Isaiah 4 never talk about God never get tired. Don't believe me? Here is Isaiah4 .....
you will come with outdated source....militant muslims and etc are increasing to make one world which islamic state...this is disaster ...
LOL , outdated source? The illegal invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan was just 10 odd years ago. That is when all these problems comes to light.
ISIS is not, as the American government and mainstream media insist, an inexplicable “evil” force or a “cancer.” The success of ISIS and other Islamic extremist groups in Syria and Iraq is very much a product of American foreign policy in the Middle East.
The relationship of the American government to ISIS follows a traditional pattern, including its relationship to Al Qaeda and Osama Bin Laden. Like Al Qaeda, ISIS is a product of US intervention—the former in Afghanistan as part of the proxy war with the Soviet Union in the 1980s, and the latter in Syria and Iraq. In its efforts to assert control over the Middle East and Central Asia, the American ruling class has invariably relied on the most backward, reactionary elements. (See, ISIS atrocities and US imperialism)
The US, the major European powers, and their regional allies such as Saudi Arabia and Qatar, have all lent substantial military, political and financial support to anti-Assad groups in Syria, much to the benefit of ISIS and other extremist outfits.
I though this has been explained a couple of times already. Ha ha , are you that thick headed that you cannot even learn anything new let alone something that goes against your worldview? Th every least my source comes from credible sources like the prominent investigative journalist - Niles Williamson.
the weed killer is ur umat...joining the militant to over throw the world into islamic state...they die and bomb themselves...Bible reading peoples like me are peaceful ....that is the fact
and you dont need to repeat when you have no clue....othewise you look like the following video, please watch and ponder..thank you
What nonsense is this? The weed killer is my umat joining millitants? Are you drunk - do you need a light knock on your head to make you sober. Asking you to drink the weed killer is per the mark16:18 challenge of which you claim that the bible is the truth. All we need now is evidence of it and mark16:18 is the perfect stage for you to prove such. Why are you so scared with the challenge as you have been saying that the bible is the truth. So when can I get the weed killer for you to drink in order for you to prove that the bible is the truth per the challenge of mark16:18
they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all;
Takut ka? Are you now admitting that the bible is not the truth? Appears so. Why don't you say it out?
What has Sesame Street (youtube video) got to do with the challenge of mark16:18?
you also cannot jugde hudud like that because you don't any experience about it and you no nothing about it, tell me is civil law the best way prevent crime, see crime rate at malaysia right now totaly poor...
OK, forummer I going to open a new thread on lying of muslims which know as Taqiyya since this topic related to hudud. Why I want to do that? because God spoke to me via HIS words on Friday related to that subject ...will explain in that topic...
here is the hudud issue which need to be address correctly...
Hudud a failure in reducing crime, says a Malaysian judge . There it goes again, PAS’s hudud – the panacea for all our national problems. A few weeks ago, Kelantan was inundated by floods because hudud was not in place and God was angry about it. Now, according to PAS president Datuk Seri Abdul Hadi Awang, the verdict in Anwar’s case might have been different if he had been tried under hudud.
PAS makes it appear so easy to solve all problems – implement hudud, and hey presto, problems solved, crime reduced, justice served.
I wonder whether Hadi himself honestly believes that hudud is the right cure for the rising crime which, as implied by him, secular criminal law has not been able to contain. In an article published in The Malaysian Insider on 11 Feb 2014 titled: “Countries with hudud laws fail to reduce crime, says former top judge”, former Chief Justice Tun Abdul Hamid Mohamad said that Muslim countries which have implemented Islamic capital punishments, or hudud, have not been successful in reducing crime rate.
He was speaking at a public talk in Petaling Jaya and compared several Muslim countries practising hudud laws, which form part of the Shariah system, with non-Muslim nations, noting that they were far behind in terms of tackling crime and establishing peace and justice despite the existence of hudud laws.
He said, “So far, countries that have implemented hudud such as Pakistan, Nigeria and Sudan, are still far behind in comparison with countries that did not implement it, like Sweden, Norway, Iceland, Denmark and Japan”.
The audience was told that the implementation of hudud in the Muslim holy cities of Mecca and Medina should also not be a yardstick to determine the effectiveness of Islamic laws for “those who go there for the Hajj are there once in their lifetime and they have brought sufficient money. These people want to perform an accepted Hajj and are mostly the elderly and repentant. Clearly they would not commit crimes”.
The judge also cautioned that prior to implementation of any laws, legislators should also be aware of the repercussions and not merely focus on enforcement.
“The implementation of laws does not end with enforcement,” he said. “What is more important is how it was done, what are the effects and as an end result, would it bring about better standards of living, peace and prosperity? Would it improve the standards of justice in this country?” Besides what the judge had said, can hudud be enforced by humans whose character does not come anywhere close to that of the Prophet?
If it is God’s law, then it should be enforced by very godly persons and not just any human no matter how high a chair he sits on, how big a mansion he lives in, how highly “educated” he is?
We have seen secular judges in the highest positions who have blundered in making decisions. In implementing God’s law, how much room can be given for errors of judgment, or should there be any room at all for errors?
Has any study been made by PAS as to the failure of secular criminal law to contain crime? Why is the secular police unable to keep crime low like in our southern neighbour?
Has any study been made as to what the indisciplined children in our schools grow up to be? Do they become good characters in adulthood or do they graduate to becoming full fledged criminals?
Has any study been done as to what happens if indiscipline is allowed to fester and grow in children from a very young age, for they are exposed to a lot of external stimuli that are negative and criminal in nature, for example, screen violence. And children learn by imitation. – February 12, 2015. * Ravinder Singh reads The Malaysian Insider. * This is the personal opinion of the writer or publication and does not necessarily represent the views of The Malaysian Insider.
Yes , why don't you open a thread on lying / 'takkiya'. Then we shall see whether it is the muslims or christians who practice 'takkiya' according to each other scripture. I assure you , you would not like it.
Ha ha , God spoke to you? There is another person who claimed that God spoke to him. It is George Bush and it ended up with over a million innocents dead. I suggest you seek professional help.
Countries with Hudud fail to reduce crime? Where is your data or data from the article? If we are to look into this carefully , this is a false argument:
Dalam The Oxford Encyclopedia of the Modern Islamic World, John L. Esposito menyebut bahawa sekalipun hudud dijadikan undang-undang di beberapa negara tetapi tidak dilaksanakan, ini seperti di Libya dan Pakistan. Sementara di Sudan dan Utara Nigeria hanya dilaksanakan beberapa tahun selepas diperkenalkan, kemudian dihentikan. Pada zaman kini hanya Arab Saudi menjadi contoh dalam perlaksanaan hudud.
In the crime ranking list , Saudi Arabia is in the bottom half. Therefore data shows that in a way , Hudud does reduce crime.
What nonsense is this from your article :
The audience was told that the implementation of hudud in the Muslim holy cities of Mecca and Medina should also not be a yardstick to determine the effectiveness of Islamic laws for “those who go there for the Hajj are there once in their lifetime and they have brought sufficient money. These people want to perform an accepted Hajj and are mostly the elderly and repentant. Clearly they would not commit crimes”.
LOL , in your mind Mekkah and Madinah only fill up with people during Hajj season? Aiyoo tambi , the permanent population of Mekkah and Madinah is about 2 million and 1.5 million. It is no different from any other cities in the world.
You have not presented any data that support your argument. If we look at the facts , it is in support of my argument.
You have not provided any good reason of your rejection of Hudud.
You are still avoiding the issue. When can you prove the truthfulness of the bible by meeting the challenge of mark16:18. I have stated many times , I would buy the weed killer. It is all up to you now , how much is your faith in the bible and christianity. If you are scared to take up the challenge of mark16:18 , it shows that you have very little faith in the bible. Therefore you are again practicing 'takkiya' in proclaiming that the bible is the truth.
By sam:
Yes , why don't you open a thread on lying / 'takkiya'. Then we shall seewhether it is the muslims or christians who practice 'takkiya' according toeach other scripture. I assure you , you would not like it.
By truth.8
Sure will exposed the lies createdcertain muslims like you, zakir naik, deedat and few others to misleads Christiansinto believing islam..
----------
By sam:
Ha ha , God spoke to you? There is another person who claimed that God spoke tohim. It is George Bush and it ended up with over a million innocents dead. Isuggest you seek professional help.
By truth.8
Here we go again, you never evenread what I am going to post yet you making an assumption…this how muslims likelies to win the debate…poor soul
By sam
Countries with Hudud fail to reduce crime? Where is your data or data from thearticle? If we are to look into this carefully , this is a falseargument:
Dalam The Oxford Encyclopedia of the Modern Islamic World,John L. Esposito menyebut bahawa sekalipun hudud dijadikan undang-undang dibeberapa negara tetapi tidak dilaksanakan, ini seperti di Libya dan Pakistan.Sementara di Sudan dan Utara Nigeria hanya dilaksanakan beberapa tahun selepasdiperkenalkan, kemudian dihentikan. Pada zaman kini hanya Arab Saudi menjadicontoh dalam perlaksanaan hudud.
By truth.
It was a speech by Muslim top Judge…u not better than him togive view....you see, even a judge amuslims disagreed on hudud…like I said, hudud is not suitable at present time..it outdated ..
Another question you should ask, in your post above, why “Sudandan Utara Nigeria hanya dilaksanakan beberapa tahun selepas diperkenalkan,kemudian dihentikan”??
Is because they realize it no use and outdated? Why needstop? Clearly something went wrong?
By sam:
In the crime ranking list , SaudiArabia is in the bottom half. Therefore data shows that in a way , Hudud doesreduce crime.
What nonsense is this from your article :
The audience was told that the implementation of hudud inthe Muslim holy cities of Mecca and Medina should also not be a yardstick todetermine the effectiveness of Islamic laws for “those who go there for theHajj are there once in their lifetime and they have brought sufficient money.These people want to perform an accepted Hajj and are mostly the elderly andrepentant. Clearly they would not commit crimes”.
By truth.8
Even is crime ranking, in arab, but actitives ofterrorist is over there but in secretly …thatis the fact.
By sam:
What nonsense is this from yourarticle :
The audience was told that the implementation of hudud inthe Muslim holy cities of Mecca and Medina should also not be a yardstick todetermine the effectiveness of Islamic laws for “those who go there for theHajj are there once in their lifetime and they have brought sufficient money.These people want to perform an accepted Hajj and are mostly the elderly andrepentant. Clearly they would not commit crimes”.
By truth.8
What is nonsense? Where? It come from top Judge….are youbetter than him??
By sam:
LOL , inyour mind Mekkah and Madinah only fill up with people during Hajj season? Aiyootambi , the permanent population of Mekkah and Madinah is about 2 million and1.5 million. It is no different from any other cities in the world.
By truth.8
Yet thetop Judge made a point.
You failed
by sam:
You have not provided any good reason of your rejection of Hudud.
By truth.8
What? Goodreason ? it all in this topic. Is outdated, not ..
So far, countries that have implemented hudud such asPakistan, Nigeria and Sudan, are still far behind in comparison with countriesthat did not implement it, like Sweden, Norway, Iceland, Denmark and Japan”.
Meaning isnot suitable at present time with modern law…it wont work…just like the country you mentioned it stop implementing hudud…so it waste of time …it make thecountry back wards…
By sam
You are still avoiding the issue. When can you prove thetruthfulness of the bible by meeting the challenge of mark16:18. I have statedmany times , I would buy the weed killer. It is all up to you now , how much isyour faith in the bible and christianity. If you are scared to take up thechallenge of mark16:18 , it shows that you have very little faith in the bible.Therefore you are again practicing 'takkiya' in proclaiming that the bible isthe truth.
By Truth…
Me avoiding? If I am avoiding , would never reply to your nonsense …just wait andsee the takkiya issue will created to counter attacked u and the rest of themuslims using such tactic to lies..
In meantime, open your mind ....and read this : Hudud is not a game, stop playing with it December 26, 2014
Hudud has very little to do with religion but everything to do with dictatorial power, absolute control and subjugation of the people.
COMMENT By TK Chua I would like to remind Malaysians in general and politicians in particular that hudud is not a game. So stop playing around with it.
Where has all the education, intelligence, knowledge and experience of the world gone? Are we blind or just hypocritical? There is no heaven or perfect system on earth. And anyone who believes there is, is delusional. Our present criminal system is also not perfect but at the very least there are rudimentary due processes and rules of natural justice incorporated to ensure minimal fairness and justice to both the perpetrators and the victims of crimes. more : http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com ... top-playing-with-it
Watch the youtube and decide does this comes from God ? The Bible have said many times, God is love...when a crime done, there is a ample of times to repent while in prison....but the following babaric act surly not from Supreme commandments ...
As Christian we can be fear to God ...why?
Why does a loving God tell us to fear Him?How does the command to fear God, repeated throughout the Bible, mesh with His description as a loving God? Answer: The author of Ecclesiastes writes, "Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God and keep His commandments, for this is man's all" (Ecclesiastes:12:13). Such a statement at first glance seems to conflict with other verses in the Bible, such as the one where the apostle John writes, "God is love" (1 John:4:8). But the apparent contradiction disappears when we come to a fuller understanding of the kind of fear the Bible is talking about.
God loves us, and that love is behind the laws and commands He has set in place for us. One of the first things we learn when we begin to understand God is that He hates sin, and that those who choose to practice it in defiance of His law will die (Ezekiel:18:4).
That's something to be afraid of. And so, when we first start obeying God, it could be out of fear of the alternative—death. But the more we keep God's law, the more we come to understand God's love for us. We begin to see that God's laws were not just an arbitrary set of high-stakes rules He set in place just because He could. We discover that He gave us His good laws because He knows that following them will give us the best life possible. Yare' , the Hebrew word translated "fear" in Ecclesiastes:12:13, does not just mean "to be afraid." It carries the additional meanings of to stand in awe of, to reverence, honor and respect.
God does not want us to be in continual terror of Him, though that may be where we start in our relationship with Him. Proper, mature fear of God means having a healthy reverence and respect for the most powerful Being in the universe and the laws He has set in place for our own benefit. We fear God and keep His commandments because He is love. What can we do but stand in awe of that?
For more insight, please read our booklet Who Is God?
Post time 4-3-2015 05:11 PM
Author
thats what you mentioned...
..or visit any hindu temples you see them gathered on friday prayer ....
