A Drug Dealer Got Caught , Decided To End His Own Life &Then Found Islam

Truth.8

Sephiroth replied at 4-3-2015 03:55 PM
No matter how intelligent a snake behave, in the end it is nothing but a lying dirty THIEF. {:1_56 ...

here we go again....bad words and negative remarks....that how a person' wolf in sheep clothing"

mashimaru83

Sephiroth replied at 4-3-2015 09:05 AM
by mashimaru83

It's not about the teaching of Karma here. Karma can teach you not to commit sins in the first place but at the end of the day human beings will always make mistake regardless of what Karma has to say. That is what repentance is for.

Sephiroth
NO. When you commit crimes against other people, YOU TRANSGRESSED THE HUMAN LAWS. Which god came down and told you that you have violated his laws when you kill someone else? Bodoh.

You are debunking you own self here. If you are just violating human laws then there is no need for Karma then, i.e. punishment through human laws are just enough.

Sephiroth
IF we were to follow your logic, then I can go around killing Muslims and claim that they had transgressed my God's Laws (which allows me to kill them) - just like Muhammad did.

Erk, wrong. Which part of your God's law ask you to go around killing Muslims? Which part of your God's law says that death is the punishment for anyone who transgresed God's law. Again, please bring the evidence.

Sephiroth

by mashimaru83

Karma can teach you not to commit sins in the first place but at the end of the day human beings will always make mistake regardless of what Karma has to say. That is what repentance is for.

No, that is called making Excuses. Repent means you admit your sins, accept punishment for it and THEN you do not repeat it. That is Repentance is about.

What you describe is merely making a sorry excuse for yourself. You make mistake, "repent" to some fairy tale Arabic god, pretend you have become a good person and later, repeat the same mistake with an excuse like "humans always make mistake."

Excuse me ... ANIMALS also don't make such excuse. I had a dog which kept sniffing things until he sniff a burning garbage fire and burn his nose. Then he learn about fire and don't go sniffing into the flame again. If you go around making the same mistake with the same excuse, YOU ARE WORSE THAN MY DOG.

If you are just violating human laws then there is no need for Karma then, i.e. punishment through human laws are just enough.

Human Laws can punish what humans can see and proven as guilty. Some crimes cannot be punished by human laws for various reasons such as :-

1. Human laws take too much time.
2. Too many people play the role in the crime - just punishing one person is injustice.
3. Not everything can be known by humans.
4. Human laws are imperfect and can also punish the innocent.

Which part of your God's law ask you to go around killing Muslims? Which part of your God's law says that death is the punishment for anyone who transgresed God's law.  

I can ask YOU the same thing. Which god gave the right to Muhammad and Muslims today to "fight for God"? Show me that god. Just as there is NO LAWS stating I have the right to kill Muslims, THERE IS NO GOD THAT REQUIRES ANYONE (ESPECIALLY MUSLIMS) TO FIGHT FOR HIM. Everything Muslims do (as act of terrorism) in name of God is UNFORGIVABLE SIN.

mashimaru83

Sephiroth replied at 6-3-2015 12:38 PM
by mashimaru83

Sephiroth:What you describe is merely making a sorry excuse for yourself. You make mistake, "repent" to some fairy tale Arabic god, pretend you have become a good person and later, repeat the same mistake with an excuse like "humans always make mistake."

Apparently you are the one who is making a fairy tale here. I never said anything about become a good person and later, repeat the same mistake with an excuse "human will always make mistake". Are you making that stuff up? Please read my post again.

Still, I have yet to see any evidence from you that can support your previous claim.

Sephiroth:
I can ask YOU the same thing. Which god gave the right to Muhammad and Muslims today to "fight for God"? Show me that god. Just as there is NO LAWS stating I have the right to kill Muslims, THERE IS NO GOD THAT REQUIRES ANYONE (ESPECIALLY MUSLIMS) TO FIGHT FOR HIM. Everything Muslims do (as act of terrorism) in name of God is UNFORGIVABLE SIN

Erk, you are simply shifting the burden of proof here. Since you are the one who made the initial claim, it's logical for you to bring the proof and not me to disprove your claim.

Sephiroth

by mashimaru83

I never said anything about become a good person and later, repeat the same mistake with an excuse "human will always make mistake". Are you making that stuff up?

I'm not making stuff up. That is what your so-called Repentance is. Just because you don't agree, it won't change the fact of what Repentance is.

Still, I have yet to see any evidence from you that can support your previous claim.

Maybe I should send you my dog so he could teach you how to be a better human being.

Since you are the one who made the initial claim, it's logical for you to bring the proof and not me to disprove your claim.

Facts do not need proof. It is proven that Muslims fight and kill for some fairy-tale god. I don't need to proof something that is a fact.

mashimaru83

Sephiroth replied at 6-3-2015 02:22 PM
by mashimaru83

Sephiroth
I'm not making stuff up. That is what your so-called Repentance is. Just because you don't agree, it won't change the fact of what Repentance is.

Sorry, that is your version of repentance. I didn't say anything like what you said in previous post. Again, please read my post.

Sephiroth
Facts do not need proof. It is proven that Muslims fight and kill for some fairy-tale god. I don't need to proof something that is a fact.

You are entitled to your opinion, but until today you have yet to bring any proof. Please come back with proper proof.

Sephiroth

by mashimaru83

Sorry, that is your version of repentance.

That is the ONLY version of Repentance - whether it is in Islam OR Christianity. How do I know this? Because both Christians and Muslims behave the same way - commit sin, pretend to be holy by praying and going to mosque/church and repeat the same mistake later at the so-called "moment of weakness."

You are entitled to your opinion, ...

That is not an opinion. THAT IS FACT and FACT do not need proof. You don't ask for proof for an egg, or tree or a rock or the Sun and the Moon. Your common sense suppose to tell you what they are. IF you cannot, then there is something wrong with your common sense. Same way here with Muslim terrorists fighting in the name of some Arabic god.

mashimaru83

Sephiroth replied at 6-3-2015 04:18 PM
by mashimaru83

Sephiroth:That is the ONLY version of Repentance - whether it is in Islam OR Christianity. How do I know this? Because both Christians and Muslims behave the same way - commit sin, pretend to be holy by praying and going to mosque/church and repeat the same mistake later at the so-called "moment of weakness."

Wrong. You are neither a Muslim nor a Christian.

Sephiroth:
That is not an opinion. THAT IS FACT and FACT do not need proof. You don't ask for proof for an egg, or tree or a rock or the Sun and the Moon. Your common sense suppose to tell you what they are. IF you cannot, then there is something wrong with your common sense. Same way here with Muslim terrorists fighting in the name of some Arabic god.

Wrong. I repeat:

Sephiroth:
Forgiveness from the Divine extended ONLY to those who commit sins unknowingly.

When you say 'from the Divine', then the Divine has to actually say it. You by definition is just an inferior being. Which scriptures are saying what you are saying?

Sephiroth

by mashimaru83

Wrong. You are neither a Muslim nor a Christian.

Nobody is Muslim or Christian when they were born. They only become one after they have learned about religion. In that context, the Muslims and Christians did not know about Repentance and came to know about it ONLY after they were subjected to the brainwashing in mosque, church or by their elders.

When you say 'from the Divine', then the Divine has to actually say it.

Where did you read that from? By your own definition of what should come from Divine, every religions on the Planet should be THROWN OUT because NO ONE had heard anything from the Divine. Go and tell your god, Allah to tell me that he is a divine before I could accept any nonsense from you.

mashimaru83

Sephiroth replied at 9-3-2015 10:06 AM
by mashimaru83

Sephiroth:
Nobody is Muslim or Christian when they were born. They only become one after they have learned about religion. In that context, the Muslims and Christians did not know about Repentance and came to know about it ONLY after they were subjected to the brainwashing in mosque, church or by their elders.

Regardless of that, you are wrong when you said that there is only one version of repentance. You don't find such thing in Islamic teachings.

Sephiroth:
Where did you read that from? By your own definition of what should come from Divine, every religions on the Planet should be THROWN OUT because NO ONE had heard anything from the Divine. Go and tell your god, Allah to tell me that he is a divine before I could accept any nonsense from you.

Look at your post here:
http://mforum.cari.com.my/forum.php?mod=redirect&goto=findpost&ptid=860295&pid=59267015&fromuid=1873387

Forgiveness from the Divine extended ONLY to those who commit sins unknowingly. Like someone who killed another person in a road accident or by accident or someone who had committed sins at moment of weakness. IT DOES NOT EXTEND TO THOSE WHO COMMIT SIN KNOWINGLY, AND HAD DONE SO FOR YEARS AND ONLY REPENT AFTER HE WAS CAUGHT.

"NO ONE" but somehow you know what is the forgiveness from the Divine is ????

Sephiroth

by mashimaru83

Regardless of that, you are wrong when you said that there is only one version of repentance. You don't find such thing in Islamic teachings.

And which god came down and told you that Islam is a Divine teaching? When? Where and what time? Who are the witnesses to your meeting with the Divine? Unless you can proof that you have meet the Divine face-to-face, BY YOUR OWN DEFINITION WHEN YOU UTTER THESE WORD - [When you say 'from the Divine', then the Divine has to actually say it.], I will consider Islam is nothing more than man-made political system.

"NO ONE" but somehow you know what is the forgiveness from the Divine is ????

I'm still waiting for confirmation from your Allah that he is a Divine because it was you who said When you say 'from the Divine', then the Divine has to actually say it. Until you have proven your own words, nothing more which you say will be entertained.

mashimaru83

Sephiroth replied at 9-3-2015 11:44 AM
by mashimaru83

Sephiroth:
And which god came down and told you that Islam is a Divine teaching? When? Where and what time? Who are the witnesses to your meeting with the Divine? Unless you can proof that you have meet the Divine face-to-face, BY YOUR OWN DEFINITION WHEN YOU UTTER THESE WORD - [When you say 'from the Divine', then the Divine has to actually say it.], I will consider Islam is nothing more than man-made political system.

The one who started to use the word divine here was you not me. I'm still waiting for the evidence from you.

Sephiroth:
I'm still waiting for confirmation from your Allah that he is a Divine because it was you who said When you say 'from the Divine', then the Divine has to actually say it. Until you have proven your own words, nothing more which you say will be entertained.

No one is discussing about divinity of Allah here. Again, you are running away from providing the proof for your initial claim.

Sephiroth

by mashimaru83

I'm still waiting for the evidence from you.  

Yes, I used the word "Divine" so one do not need to add any religions into the discussion, but it is you who decided to specify Islam and added the condition When you say 'from the Divine', then the Divine has to actually say it. therefore, before we proceed any further, you must prove that Islam itself is a religion of the Divine.

No one is discussing about divinity of Allah here.

Who are you to say what I'm discussing or not? I am CHALLENGING Allah's divinity here and as a Muslim - CAN YOU PROVE YOUR ALLAH IS A DIVINE?

mashimaru83

Sephiroth replied at 9-3-2015 02:20 PM
by mashimaru83

Sephiroth:
Yes, I used the word "Divine" so one do not need to add any religions into the discussion, but it is you who decided to specify Islam

Wrong again. My initial question was: Do you have evidence for the underlined sentence? I didn't specify Islam in my first question at all.

Sephiroth:
Who are you to say what I'm discussing or not? I am CHALLENGING Allah's divinity here and as a Muslim - CAN YOU PROVE YOUR ALLAH IS A DIVINE?

Who am I? Of course, I'm a member of this forum. You have the right to challenge but in this case, I have challenged you first with my question: Where is the evidence to backup your claim?

Sephiroth

by Mashimaru83

I didn't specify Islam in my first question at all.

I don't give a $hit what you specified. You have made the statement - When you say 'from the Divine', then the Divine has to actually say it. so therefore, you must prove that Islam is Divine (teaching). Otherwise, by default - Islam is false or a political system (or both).

You have the right to challenge but in this case, I have challenged you first with my question:

No further statement will be entertained until you have proven that Allah is Divine as Muslims claimed. Nothing will be entertained until then.

mashimaru83

Sephiroth replied at 12-3-2015 04:08 PM
by Mashimaru83

Sephiroth:
You have made the statement - When you say 'from the Divine', then the Divine has to actually say it. so therefore, you must prove that Islam is Divine (teaching). Otherwise, by default - Islam is false or a political system (or both).

Wrong. I didn't say anything about Islam in my question. Divine and Islam are two different words. I only use the word divine here. Again, I'm still waiting for the evidence from you.

Sephiroth

by masinmaru83

Wrong. I didn't say anything about Islam in my question. Divine and Islam are two different words. I only use the word divine here. Again, I'm still waiting for the evidence from you.

LYING through your teeth again. A typical Muslim - a very good liar, just like a devil.

I will quote from post #30

Regardless of that, you are wrong when you said that there is only one version of repentance. You don't find such thing in Islamic teachings.

It is YOU who claimed that you could not find the version of Repentance I had mentioned in Islamic teaching. And in return, I asked you to proof Islam is Divine (teaching). And here, you claim you have not made such remark. YOU ARE A DAMN LIAR. JUST LIKE YOUR MUHAMMAD WAS.

mashimaru83

Sephiroth replied at 13-3-2015 09:05 AM
by masinmaru83

Sephiroth:
I will quote from post #30

Look at your post #27 which is way before my post #30.

Sephiroth:
That is the ONLY version of Repentance - whether it is in Islam OR Christianity. How do I know this? Because both Christians and Muslims behave the same way - commit sin, pretend to be holy by praying and going to mosque/church and repeat the same mistake later at the so-called "moment of weakness."

The one who started to bring Islam to the discussion here was you. My original question has no mention of Islam or Christianity at all. Again, where is the evidence to support your previous claim?

Sephiroth

by mashimaru83

My original question has no mention of Islam or Christianity at all.

Why look at an older post (#27) when there is a latter post (#30) regarding what we were talking about?

The fact here is - I said Act of Repent like what what described in the original post doesn't exist cos it produced NOTHING to the victim - and I did it without adding ANY religious statement or reference to any religion. It was YOU who said that such practice doesn't exist in Islam (thus bring in religious reference into the debate). So now, you are stuck when I asked you to prove that Islam is a Divine (teaching) for us to accept your statement and you are trying hard to make me lose the grip I got around your whinning neck about proving Islam is a divine teaching. BECAUSE YOU CANNOT DO SO.

Therefore we can conclude that Islamic version of Repentation is AGAINST DIVINITY. WHY? Because if we were to follow Islamic teaching, ANY murderer, rapist and cutthroat can kill ANYONE and then escape judgement (by repenting) or becoming a Muslim. Such practice is against the very nature of Justice and Social Order of Humanity.  That is MY conclusion.

mashimaru83

Sephiroth replied at 13-3-2015 02:20 PM
by mashimaru83

Sephiroth:
Why look at an older post (#27) when there is a latter post (#30) regarding what we were talking about?

The fact here is - you were the FIRST one who's making a reference to religions and now you are saying I was the one who brought in religious reference into the debate.
Again, my initial question in post #5 doesn't have any reference to any religion at all, yet you refuse to address it.  

Sephiroth:
The fact here is - I said Act of Repent like what what described in the original post doesn't exist cos it produced NOTHING to the victim - and I did it without adding ANY religious statement or reference to any religion. It was YOU who said that such practice doesn't exist in Islam (thus bring in religious reference into the debate).

Wrong. In your post #27, you clearly mentioned Islam and Christianity. I repeat, it's very clear here that you were the FIRST one who's making a reference to Islam here.

Sephiroth:
Therefore we can conclude that Islamic version of Repentation is AGAINST DIVINITY. WHY? Because if we were to follow Islamic teaching, ANY murderer, rapist and cutthroat can kill ANYONE and then escape judgement (by repenting) or becoming a Muslim. Such practice is against the very nature of Justice and Social Order of Humanity.  That is MY conclusion.

Unfortunately your conclusion is wrong.