WHO ARE THOSE CALLED "RIGHT HAND POSSESS"

why am i complaining about american soldiers raping iraqi women because obviously american soldiers are not muslim men and as christians wouldnt jesus allow them to do so? obviously you are mocking about islam allows us to rape female captives and by doing so you are trying to prove to anyone how bad my religion is. so my question here if my religion is bad and your religion is good why those american soldiers do such a bad behaviour? look who's practising it now? look who's KANTOI :jeler:

Debmey

But Muslims from Mo have been teaching and doing it all the time.
Its all recorded in the Quran and hadiths and yu clearly have no answer to it. All yu did was to discredit the writer and the site and not what they presented. thats what we call strawman arguments for people who are lost in debate.

Have u ever heard of Taliban raping and sodomising afghanistani women during the period of their ruling? none at all they instead were asking to use hijab and veil and  no prostitution and now the afganistani women have more freedom to do whatever they want without any force when taliban no longer ruling the country but what has happened to iraqi women when america inventing the country? their women become sex slaves for american soldiers :jeler:

Debmey

Yes they did. They did take women captive and raped them, just like Mo. http://www.institute-for-afghan- ... BAN/intro_kakar.htm

FaithHealer3

The late victim-of-fatwa, Dr.Rashad Khalifa declared himself as a messenger of Allah and translated Quran in English by rejecting all the other translations as corrupted. He also rejected all the sahih hadiths as corrupted as well.

The Islam-Reformasi guys at Submision.org sure know how to twist and manipulate the Quran.

and WICKED's copy&paste article quotes verses from the manipulated translation of Dr.Khalifa's Quran.

Yet it stil shows that "right hand posses" as "people you own" such as your slaves whom you can have sex with... and not childrens or family members.

The Submission.org guys tried to break-down the "right hand possess" in to 5 separate catagories but it didn't work.

  (1) Ma Malakat Aymanukum = what you already have.
Example given: Q[4:3] If you deem it best for the orphans, you may marry their mothers - you may marry two, three, or four. If you fear lest you become unfair, then you shall be content with only one, or with what you already have (Ma Malakat Aymanukum).

simply means... If you can't afford to marry then you just have to be content with having sex with your slaves...

(2) Ma Malakat Aymanukum = What is rightfully yours.  
Example: Q[23:6] Only with their spouses, or those who are rightfully theirs (Ma Malakat Aymanhum), do they have sexual relations; they are not to be blamed.

simply means... you can have sex with your slaves, no problemo.

(3) Ma Malakat Aymanukum = slaves, if any.
Example: Q[4:25] Those among you who cannot afford to marry free believing women, may marry believing slave women (Ma Malakat Aymanukum).

simply means... you can marry for free your muslim slave.

(4) Ma Malakat Aymanukum = servants.
Example: Q[30:28] He cites for you herein an example from among yourselves: Do you ever elevate your servants or subordinates (Ma Malakat Aymanukum) to the level where they rival you, and to the point that you pay them as much allegiance as is being paid to you? We thus explain the revelations for people who understand.

The other Quran translator didn't separate servants and subordianate... they just say "right hand possess" ... how come Dr. Khalifa can split "ma malakat aymanukum" into 2 separate catagories as servants and subordinates? ... its clear that Dr.Khalifa is corrupting the Quran.

(5) Ma Malakat Aymanukum = Special category of women who leave their disbelieving husbands during wartime and join the believers camp.
Example Q[4:24] Also prohibited are the women who are already married, unless they flee their disbelieving husbands who are at war with you (Ma Malakat Aymanukum).

This is another deliberate manipulation of the Quran by Dr.Khalifa.
How can all the other Quran translator who translate the Quran never mention anything about this "unless they flee their disbelieving husbands who are at war with you "
This what they translate...

Q4:24
Pickthall: And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess...
Yusuf Ali: Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess:
Shakir:And all married women except those whom your right hands possess ...
Sher Ali: And forbidden to you are married women, except such as your right hands possess.
Sale:[Ye are] also [forbidden to take to wife] free women [who are married], except those [women] whom your right hands shall possess [as slaves.
Rodwell: Forbidden to you also are married women, except those who are in your hands as slaves:

Its clear from the "other" Quran translators who came before Dr.Khalifa, that this sura Q4:24 allows you to have sex with those your "right hand possess"

Debmey

looks like muslims are ashamed and clueless.

cheers

FaithHealer3

Originally posted by Debmey at 2004-4-11 06:44 AM:
looks like muslims are ashamed and clueless.

If so, why can't they come out of their shell and openlly say so. ;)
At least here in this forum.

Why the muslims can't face reality and say that the "right hand possess" is a gross violation of human rights. :hmm:

Are the muslims brainwashed to such an extent that they can't see the evil in Islam.

Debmey

They are trapped in human logic, shame and political correctness.

FaithHealer3

Originally posted by Debmey at 2004-4-11 11:58 PM:
They are trapped in human logic, shame and political correctness.

And they try to bluff their way around.

You see, WICKED gave a wrong answer abt "right hand possess" . He said it was childrens and family member... when in fact it means slaves whom you own and you can have sex with... as shown in the suras.

Then he tried to wiggle his way out by pasting the cut&paste ariticle from QURAN-ONLY sites.

Either muslim like WICKED don't know abt the "right hand posses" or he knew abt it but too ashame to admit it... so they lie to cover it up.

Before the advent of Islam, it had been the habit of men to marry an unlimited number of women. The Old Testament states that David had 100 wives and Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines. What do you like to say about this faithhealer3? it seems that the bible also mention about the practice of such  an outrageous sex  activities..lor..wow one got 100 wives another got 700 wives + 300 concubines :stp: ..haiya terror than muhammad mey? :hmm: unbelievable...believe it!..like Dean Cain, the host of "Ripley抯 Believe it or Not" used to say

Debmey

God never endorsed those multiple sex partnership of Solomon and David, certainly not Muhamad.

However, there is a basic diffrence between David, Solomon verses Mo. Those partners were wives and concubines while in the case of mo, they were sex slaves.

concubines is gundik in malay..that means illegal wives lorr..

Debmey

concubines are not illegal

The dictionary states

A wife of inferior condition; a lawful wife, but not united to the man by the usual ceremonies, and of inferior condition.

Still no reply to the proof of sex salvery in islam?

FaithHealer3

Originally posted by Jezebel at 2004-4-12 04:04 PM:
The Old Testament states that David had 100 wives and Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines.

:hmm:
Soloman and David were sexmaniacs.

What about Muhammad? He had more than 9 wifes and countless "right hand possess"...

What shall we call him?

Debmey

not forgetting he raped them. He even committed paedophilia.

Originally posted by FaithHealer3 at 13-4-2004 06:06 AM:

:hmm:
Soloman and David were sexmaniacs.

What about Muhammad? He had more than 9 wifes and countless "right hand possess"...

What shall we call him?
...

Solomon and David were sexmaniacs? Does this being mentioned in your bible? if they were sexmaniacs how can they be the prophets?

Debmey

Solomon had many wives. David commited adultery, its all recorded in the Bible. The Bible doesn't hide nor justify the sins of men.
Prophets are humans, just like you and me, thats why we all need Jesus for salvation for our sins. Thats the whole message of the Bible.

Originally posted by Debmey at 2004-7-16 02:13 PM:
Solomon had many wives. David commited adultery, its all recorded in the Bible. The Bible doesn't hide nor justify the sins of men.
Prophets are humans, just like you and me, thats why we all nee ...

http://www.islam-online.net/aska ... sp?hquestionID=2852

Originally posted by Debmey at 16-7-2004 02:13 PM:
Solomon had many wives. David commited adultery, its all recorded in the Bible. The Bible doesn't hide nor justify the sins of men.
Prophets are humans, just like you and me, thats why we all nee ...

no wonder most christians do not afraid to commit sin because all this while you thought that jesus is salvation of your sins. To us we are responsible to our own sin nobody will become our salvation or rescuer. It is up to you to believe that someone will become your salvation of your sin but be rest assure that you'll be a loser if your after life becomes  difficult because of all the sins that you've committed. every sin that we make will infact be judged by god and of course we will get punishment. yeah i can see in christianity you pretend that Jesus is a salvation of your sins just because you people do not want to imagine how bad the punishment you will get for making any sin. Nobody likes to imagine how difficult life in hell is.

FaithHealer3

Originally posted by KENNKID at 2004-7-16 03:42 PM:

http://www.islam-online.net/aska ... sp?hquestionID=2852

That website looks like answering to please the westernised minds.

Take a look at the answered given in this Islam Q&A who don't care about what non-muslims think.
1. Question #20802: Intercourse with a slave woman is not regarded as zina (adultery)
listen to these words from the islamic experts...
[quote]Allaah has permitted intimacy with a slave woman if the man owns her. This is not regarded as adultery as suggested in the question. Allaah says, describing the believers (interpretation of the meaning):

搕hose who guard their chastity (i.e. private parts, from illegal sexual acts)
Except from their wives or (the slaves) that their right hands possess,__ for then, they are free from blame