THROUGH THE COMFORTER, WHO ARE THE REAL JEWS IN THE EYES OF GOD?

Fuzzman

So who are the real Jews that Jesus speaks of saving with the coming Comforter? Jesus speaks of the coming Comforter who is the Holy Spirit [not existing at the time Jesus said these words] Can Debmey or anybody else tells me as to whom is Jesus making mention of?

Here's the guideline to help out :-
John 16:7 - "Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you."
John 16:8 - "And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:"
John 16:12 - "I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now."
John 16:13 - "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come."
John 16:14 - "He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew [it] unto you."

Jesus speaks of a coming Comforter, a spirit of Truth, who will speak of his ministry and glorify it and yet makes no mention of his self nor his efforts in glorifying the word of his Father. So who is this Comforter?

There are some things that need to be made known and they are :-
1. This Comforter will not be in the time of Jesus nor in the environment of Jesus as Jesus has said that they would not be able to "BEAR" with what needs to be said but the comforter will be able to do just that.

2. This Comforter cannot be from the amongst the disciples nor any intermediary links such as Paul of Tarsus nor any other form of preachers as Jesus has acknowledged failure to turn over the Jews.

3. This Comforter will speak of the greatness of God alone and not Jesus as God, as Jesus has not mentioned himself as God but only of being sent by the Father. Therefore the perception of Jesus being God is false and attempt to label Jesus as God will nullify the status of the Comforter mentioned by Prophet Jesus.

SO WHO IS THE COMFORTER AND WHO ARE THESE JEWS MENTIONED BY PROPHET JESUS?

ARI FUZZMAN

[ Last edited by Fuzzman on 23-1-2005 at 01:50 PM ]

1

"I have told you this so that you may not fall away.

2

They will expel you from the synagogues; in fact, the hour 1 is coming when everyone who kills you will think he is offering worship to God.

3

They will do this because they have not known either the Father or me.

4

I have told you this so that when their hour comes you may remember that I told you. 2 "I did not tell you this from the beginning, because I was with you.

5

But now I am going to the one who sent me, and not one of you asks me, 3 'Where are you going?'

6

But because I told you this, grief has filled your hearts.

7

But I tell you the truth, it is better for you that I go. For if I do not go, the Advocate will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you.

8

4 And when he comes he will convict the world in regard to sin and righteousness and condemnation:

9

sin, because they do not believe in me;

10

righteousness, because I am going to the Father and you will no longer see me;

11

condemnation, because the ruler of this world has been condemned. Coming of the Advocate

12

"I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear it now.

13

5 But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to all truth. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to you the things that are coming.

14

He will glorify me, because he will take from what is mine and declare it to you.

15

Everything that the Father has is mine; for this reason I told you that he will take from what is mine and declare it to you.

16

"A little while and you will no longer see me, and again a little while later and you will see me."

17

So some of his disciples said to one another, "What does this mean that he is saying to us, 'A little while and you will not see me, and again a little while and you will see me,' and 'Because I am going to the Father'?"

18

So they said, "What is this 'little while' (of which he speaks)? We do not know what he means."

19

Jesus knew that they wanted to ask him, so he said to them, "Are you discussing with one another what I said, 'A little while and you will not see me, and again a little while and you will see me'?

20

Amen, amen, I say to you, you will weep and mourn, while the world rejoices; you will grieve, but your grief will become joy.

21

When a woman is in labor, she is in anguish because her hour has arrived; but when she has given birth to a child, she no longer remembers the pain because of her joy that a child has been born into the world.

22

So you also are now in anguish. But I will see you again, and your hearts will rejoice, and no one will take your joy away from you.

23

On that day you will not question me about anything. Amen, amen, I say to you, whatever you ask the Father in my name he will give you.

24

Until now you have not asked anything in my name; ask and you will receive, so that your joy may be complete.

25

6 "I have told you this in figures of speech. The hour is coming when I will no longer speak to you in figures but I will tell you clearly about the Father.

26

On that day you will ask in my name, and I do not tell you that I will ask the Father for you.

27

For the Father himself loves you, because you have loved me and have come to believe that I came from God.

28

I came from the Father and have come into the world. Now I am leaving the world and going back to the Father."

29

His disciples said, "Now you are talking plainly, and not in any figure of speech.

30

Now we realize that you know everything and that you do not need to have anyone question you. Because of this we believe that you came from God." 7

31

Jesus answered them, "Do you believe now?

32

Behold, the hour is coming and has arrived when each of you will be scattered 8 to his own home and you will leave me alone. But I am not alone, because the Father is with me.

33

I have told you this so that you might have peace in me. In the world you will have trouble, but take courage, I have conquered the world."

2. This Comforter cannot be from the amongst the disciples nor any intermediary links such as Paul of Tarsus nor any other form of preachers as Jesus has acknowledged failure to turn over the Jews.

it doesn't say in the chapter...or did i missed it...

10

righteousness, because I am going to the Father and you will no longer see me;

the muslim say there will be a second coming of jesus...but jesus said you will no longer see me...

3. This Comforter will speak of the greatness of God alone and not Jesus as God, as Jesus has not mentioned himself as God but only of being sent by the Father. Therefore the perception of Jesus being God is false and attempt to label Jesus as God will nullify the status of the Comforter mentioned by Prophet Jesus.

15

Everything that the Father has is mine; for this reason I told you that he will take from what is mine and declare it to you.

27

For the Father himself loves you, because you have loved me and have come to believe that I came from God.

30

Now we realize that you know everything and that you do not need to have anyone question you. Because of this we believe that you came from God." 7

Debmey

Its simple, the comforter is the Holy Spirit.  
John14:26 But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

Take note that the Quran carried none of Jesus' teachings. This cointradicts what the Bible says abt the comforter.
Fuzzy has no chance to debate aginst me.

peace

Originally posted by Debmey at 2005-1-10 10:11 AM:
Its simple, the comforter is the Holy Spirit.  
John14:26 But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I ha ...

Don't christians believe that the holy spirit is the third person of the trinity? If the holy spirit is the 'comforter' then the holy spirit would not be part and parcel  of God (as christians believe). God cannot be sending a part of himself  later and a portion earlier. This is how Christianity has basphemed against God, by inventing falsehood about The Holy Essence of God, to suit their original paganistic beliefs that they held on to before taking to paul's religion.  

Christians also sometimes define the holy spirit as the aspect of God immanent in this world, in human beings, and in the church.( Immanent means existing or remaining within; inherent). Jesus' promise to his disciples of a Comforter (or Paraclete, i.e., advocate), in John 14, is considered by many christians (including Debmey's brand of Christianity) his principal reference to the Holy Spirit, and the descent of the Holy Spirit on the apostles and the communication of the gift of tongues, as recounted in Acts 2, is thought to be an example of the work of the Holy Spirit in time. This incident is commemorated on Pentecost (Whitsunday). Certain Christian groups, such as the Montanists and the Society of Friends, have attributed utterances of their members to the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. The dove is their symbol of the Holy Spirit.

{Don't worry, my Muslims brothers and sisters, no humans can understand this. Nobody from the twilight zone would understand it too.}

Christians also have disagreements and controversies regarding the procession of the so-called holy spirit.

1 The Nicene Creed, beginning, "I believe in one God the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible, and in one Lord Jesus Christ

a spirit of Truth
You mean Truth.8??

nightlord

Well Kenkid we do understand your mental limitations in understanding anything above what you see in front of you nose. But I will try to explain simple concepts to you first.

Allah has been here since the begining of time and will be here till the end of time( yeah I know it is hard for you to understand but bear with me)

Allah is all wise and powerful, with powers exceeding human imagination.

Allah can be present in the past and in the future.

Allah can appear in our dreams and gives us visions of what is to come.

HOW HARD IS IT TO UNDERSTAND THAT ALLAH CAN BE WHAT EVER HE WANTS TO BE AT ANY TIME, PAST OR FUTURE, DIVISIBLE OR INDIVISIBLE IS WITHIN HIS POWERS.

How hard is it for you to understand that Allah came as a man to lead us on the right path and yet can exist in heaven whom Jesus refer to as father affectionately.

Your mind is closed, OR MAYBE YOU ARE JUST INTELLECTUALLY CHALLENGED.



NIGHTLORD

Fuzzman

Debmey wrote:-Its simple, the comforter is the Holy Spirit.  
John14:26 But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

1. Can you show proof that the Comforter is truly the Holy Spirit?
2. Show me the connecting relationship between the Comforter and the Holy Spirit?
3. Show me the human and spiritual qualities of them both and as to how they corelate together as one?

John 14:26 specifically says in future tense that the Comforter is  one a "spirit" as in being not in presence during the rrevelation made by Jesus. The Holy Spirit meaning a being that has yet not been born and not of this world as of then.

So tell me as to whom is this Comforter by Bible standards?

Debmey wrote: Take note that the Quran carried none of Jesus' teachings. This cointradicts what the Bible says abt the comforter.
Fuzzy has no chance to debate aginst me.

Why mention the Quran? Did I mention the Quran? I'm talking purely Bible material here. No Quranic contradiction at play here. Only you in your confusion. Why is it that every little thing that makes the lines here as to magnetise back to the Quran? Factually Quran has a whole lot to say about the OT prophets. Maybe you haven't been reading the Quran that well. Especially on the part of the tampering, alterations and destruction of the true Gospel of Jesus. Ever forget the Qumranic Dead Sea Scrolls? Why had these papyrus parchments had to be hideen away from public reading? Why were the preists in charge of their safe-keeping being put to the death?

As for now, please tell us as to whom is the Comforter and has this Comforter been sent already?

ARI FUZZMAN

1. Can you show proof that the Comforter is truly the Holy Spirit?

Its simple, the comforter is the Holy Spirit.John14:26 But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

didn't he just answered your question...?

Originally posted by Fuzzman at 2005-1-9 17:45:
So who are the real Jews that Jesus speaks of saving with the coming Comforter? Jesus speaks of the coming Comforter who is the Holy Spirit [not existing at the time Jesus sa ...

Sending another Prophet to the Jews after Jesus peace be upon him would have been useless, because Jesus peace be upon him said:
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing." (From the NIV Bible, Matthew 23:37)

So? :cak::cak:

he said "Comforter"...

Debmey

Bible is very clear that the Comforter is the Holy Spirit.

The muslim case is cracked no matter how they try to twist and turn.

Well Kenkid we do understand your mental limitations in understanding anything above what you see in front of you nose. But I will try to explain simple concepts to you first.

Nightlord, we are fully aware of your limitless and no holds barred stretch of the  imagination in perceiving  God in whatever form that your wild dreaming mind perceives.

And.. it  is you who is in fact incapable of understanding anything 揳bove what you see in front of your nose

Fuzzman

Debmey wrote: Bible is very clear that the Comforter is the Holy Spirit. The muslim case is cracked no matter how they try to twist and turn.

Again another sanitization attempt by Debmey.First he tried to magnetise [didn't work] by attaching my argument to Quran : and now this! Will Debmey never ever learn the true path of faith.

The point is - how clear? How clear is the Bible when it comes to the issue of the coming Comforter? Jesus has said in John 16:7 that with HIS departure will then bring about the coming of the promised Comforter. This can only mean that the Comforter is as HUMAN as Jesus! So please explain the spiritual aspect of your renderation of the Comforter in a "HOLY SPIRIT" context?

As far as Fuzzman knows, the Holy Spirit is as intact as ever in a pastoral sense of the word. Only existing and alive in either Sunday Mass, Novenas or Shalom events.
Am I wrong to assume that the Comforter is just a bluff in the biblical sense of believe and faith, to the point that the Church has gone as far along as to paint the Comforter akin to the Holy Spirit? Factually speaking I do not think you people even know if the Comforter of the Bible ever exsits or will ever make an appearance in the service of Christiandom, let alone Mankind.

DO YOU KNOW YOUR COMFORTER?

ARI FUZZMAN

i think debmey posted this before...

John 14:26   
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Debmey

You see, i posted the Bible verse and Fuzzman fails to read. Then he says I am not clear.

TUMPANG LALU PAK... ;)

ADA SEDIKIT ADVERTISEMENT:



TempraKON Siberian Goose Down Comforters
Down comforters by TempraKON use NASA technology to naturally control your body temperature and reduce excess humidity. These luxury hypoallergenic bed comforters are covered in 100% cotton and filled with Siberian goose down. Goose down comforters come in summer, winter and year-round weights and are available in twin, full/queen and king sizes.

Click to enlarge Temprakon down comforters

Special Features
See all Comforters

KAHKAHKAHKAHKAH...:llol
Comparison Chart
Free Shipping*

Buy Now!

Debmey

Musllims like Ahmad Deedat, menj and fuzzy thinks mohamed is teh comforter, what do you think?

Fuzzman

Originally posted by Debmey at 2005-1-11 04:44 PM:
Musllims like Ahmad Deedat, menj and fuzzy thinks mohamed is teh comforter, what do you think?

Yet again another amazing attempt by Debmey to magnetise the Comforter issue to Quran and Islam. Why do you strongly feel that the Comforter lies within Islam and Quran? I'm merely making a point based on a Bible stand point which has nothing whatsoever to do with neither Islam nor Quran. Do you wish for me to attach Islamic aspirations to this issue?

Jesus was right when HE quoted the verse below -
John 16:12 - "I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now."
because you people cannot bear to hear out this argument as you very well know that the Holy Ghost that you rever as biblical truth cannot be the comforter as Jesus strictly makes the Comforter to come after HIM and in human form. It would do you to remember well that Jesus spoke of the gender HE, and HE means a HUMAN MALE, for the coming Comforter. Guess you guys just cannot bear to hear that you do not know who your Comforter really is eh?

DO YOU KNOW YOUR COMFORTER?

ARI FUZZMAN

Truth.8

what a pity to see this thread arguing by Muslims who believed comforter is muhammad and trinity who believed comforter is third person.

Why 'he' is used for the spirit?

is comforter  muhammad? NOpe.

i will post who is comforter accordingly Bible verse.

Muhammad or thrid person

[ Last edited by Truth.8 on 11-1-2005 at 09:11 PM ]

Truth.8

Why " he " is used for the Spirit ?

Perhaps why so many people believe the Spirit is a
person is because Jesus used the pronoun " he " when
speaking about the Spirit in the book of John ?

In the 14th, 15th and 16th chapters of John, the Spirit
is referred to as the "Comforter" , "Counselor" or " the
Helper ". In the Greek language, this is called Parakletos.
The pronouns "he", "him," and "himself is used in
connection with parakletos (John 14:16,26, 15:25-26, 16:7-
14). This is because parakletos is a masculine word.

Parakletos describes the activity of the risen Christ.
The personal pronoun " he " is applicable for parakletos
because it denotes a comforter, a counselor, a helper or an
advocate - all these being persons.


In this case, parakletos is the Person of the resurrected
Jesus who comforts, helps and guides His church. Notice

verse 17 of John 14, ". . . .even the Spirit of truth, whom
the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor
- knows him, but you know him, for he will dwells in you
and will be in you " (New King James Version).
Jesus tells His disciples they already know the Spirit,
but how did they know the Spirit when the Spirit was not
yet given to them ?

Because the Spirit was dwelling in Jesus' Being and
Jesus was dwelling among them. Jesus assured them this
SAME SPIRIT would dwell INSIDE them.

How can we be certain that the Holy Spirit, Christ
spoke of, was not another entity in the Godhead but Christ's
personal Spirit ?

Continuing with verse 18, Jesus promises, " I will not
leave you orphans ; I WILL COME TO YOU " (NKJV).
Jesus assures His disciples He Himself and not some other
Person or Being will come and stay with them. How will
Jesus come to His disciples again to live always IN THEM?

Surely not by His fleshly presence BUT BY HIS
SPIRITUAL PRESENCE - the HOLY SPIRIT !
John 7:39 states, "Up to that time, the Spirit had not
been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified. "

If the Spirit was the Third Person already present in
Heaven, why did He have to wait for Jesus to be glorified ?
Couldn't He come down on His own since He was an equal
to the Father and Christ ? The only explanation to this verse
is the Spirit given to the disciples is simply the Spirit of the
resurrected and glorified Son of God !

Clearly, the Comforter Jesus spoke extensively; about
in John14, 15 and 16 is not another person of the Godhead

[ Last edited by Truth.8 on 12-1-2005 at 01:33 AM ]