THROUGH THE COMFORTER, WHO ARE THE REAL JEWS IN THE EYES OF GOD?

aenemy7

here's the url;

http://www.answering-christianity.com/aramaic_society.htm

aenemy7

Hijrah in the bible????:ah:

( http://www.answering-christianity.com/emigration.htm )



The emigration (The Hijra):

"God (his guidance) came from Teman, and the Holy One from mount Paran. Selah. His glory covered the heavens, and the earth was full of his praise." (Habakkuk 3:3)

The wilderness of Paran is where Abraham's wife Hagar and his eldest son Ishmael, the father of the Arabs, settled (Genesis 21:21) in the Arabian desert. Specifically, Makkah (Please see Map 1, page 498). Makkah is, of course, the capital of Islam in Arabia and the birthplace of Muhammad (peace be upon him). Indeed, it was Hagar and Ishmael themselves who transformed a barren patch of desert into what is now the capital of Islam, "Makkah." Mount Paran is the chain of mountains in that same region which the Arabs call the "Sarawat mountains."

According to J. Hasting's Dictionary of the Bible, Teman is an Oasis just North of Madinah. Muhammad (peace be upon him) did indeed come from Paran. About 622 AD, he and his followers were forced to migrate from Makkah (Paran) to Madinah (Teman) where he spent the rest of his prophetic life teaching its people the guidance of God (the Qur'an). These two cities, Makkah and Madinah, are such critical importance to a Muslims faith that every single chapter of the Qur'an is classified as either "Makkia" (revealed in Makkah) or "Madaniyyah" (revealed in Madinah).

When someone describes someone as having "come from" a certain town, this is usually interpreted as meaning that that person was born in that town. In other words, that town is this man's "home town." However, when one reads the words "God came from…," the meaning is quite different. It is quite obvious that the verse is not implying that a given location is God's "home town." Jews, Christians, and Muslims all affirm that God Almighty is Omnipresent and Eternal. So, if this is the case, then we can not say that God Himself "came" or "went" to a given place since that would imply that there are times and places where God's knowledge and supervision is NOT present, and thus, it is possible to hide from God since I could go to a place where God has not "come" and is not present in His knowledge.

So if God is Omnipresent (present in knowledge everywhere at the same time), then we begin to realize that it is not God "Himself" that is "coming" from a given place, rather it is God's guidance and mankind's recognition of God that is being established in a given location. In other words, in a place where the true worship of God and the true knowledge of His message were absent, God blesses them with knowledge of Himself and His message. In this way, they become "acquainted" with God, and "meet" or "learn of" Him. In this fashion, although God Almighty was ever present in His knowledge, with them and all of His creation, they are only now beginning to comprehend His presence.

Once we understand that the people of Mount Paran and Teman are described as becoming aware of the message of God and His guidance, and we realize that Paran and Teman are to Islam what Jerusalem is to Judaism or Christianity, then we begin to see the emergence of a prophesy of the coming of the final message of God. This is because Muhammad (peace be upon him) first received the prophethood of Islam in the cave of "Hira'a" located in the highest part of the mountains of Paran (see section 6.2). Jesus (peace be upon him) never in his life traveled to Paran nor Teman. Muhammad, however, was born in Paran, he became the prophet of Islam there, and it was the capital of the Islamic religion in that day and this. No man from Paran, throughout history, has had his praise sung in so many nations as has Muhammad (peace be upon him). The name "Muhammad" itself literally means in Arabic "The praised one." Through the teachings of Muhammad, God is now being praised by over one billion Muslims around the world.

However, if we were to look more closely at this verse we would find even greater detail of this coming message. The word which has been translated here as "Holy One" is the Hebrew word "qadowsh" {kaw-doshe'} which has the multiple meaning of "sacred, holy, Holy One, saint, set apart." In this specific verse the translators judgment drove them to translate it as "Holy One" (notice the capitals), thus, they understood this verse to simply mean "God came from Teman and God came from mount Paran." However, if this was the intended reading then why did God choose to use the word "God" in one place and "Holy One" in the other? There must be a reason for this specific wording. Actually, there is.

If we were to read Exodus 19:6 we would find that the same translators of the Bible have translated this same Hebrew word as "holy nation." In Exodus 29:31 it is translated as "holy place," and in Zec. 14:5 they translated it as "saints." Thus, we see that according to the witness of these same translators of the Bible, this verse of Habakkuk 3:3 could (or more correctly, should) be translated as "and the saint from mount Paran," or "and the holy one from mount Paran" (no capitals). This is important, why?

If we were to accept everything these Biblical translators are teaching us and to accept that the word "qadowsh" can be translated as "Holy One," or as "holy one," or as "saint," or as "holy," etc. based upon the meaning most appropriate for the chosen verse, then we realize that although it would be completely appropriate to interpret the coming of Islam from the mountains of Makkah as "the Holy One" coming from "mount Paran," still, it would be more precise to say that "the holy one" (or "the saint") came from "mount Paran." This is because Muhammad (peace be upon him) was born on Paran (Makkah) and first received the message of Islam in the mountains of Makkah.

So why does the first part of this verse say "God came from Teman" and not "The Holy One came from Teman"? Well, the reason for this is that Islam was indeed first revealed to Muhammad (peace be upon him) in Makkah, however, he and his followers remained persecuted and in constant fear of death from the pagans of Arabia while they resided in Makkah. This continued for a period of thirteen years. During this period, the Muslims were beaten, starved, tortured, and killed. This situation was hardly conducive of the Muslims openly preaching the message of God to all of mankind. For this reason, the knowledge of the persecution that one must endure upon acceptance of Islam prevented many from openly accepting it or preaching it to others.
However, this all changed in the beginning of the fourteenth year. That is when God Almighty commanded Muhammad (peace be upon him) to emigrate with his companions to Teman (Madinah). Although the pagans escalated their persecution of the Muslims into all-out warfare at this point, still, within the boundaries of the city of Madinah they had begun to enjoy a measure of freedom and autonomy. This freedom manifested itself in their ability to not only preach the message of God within the city itself, but they also began to send delegations to the surrounding cities inviting them to Islam. In other words, the message of Islam did not truly begin its "global" phase until it reached "Teman" or Madinah. This is why the verse says "God came from Teman, and the holy one from mount Paran" In fact, just as the Christian calendar starts with the presumed date of the birth of Jesus (peace be upon him), so does the Islamic "Hijra" calendar start with the year in which the Muslims emigrated to Madinah.


Allah Knows Best,Peace Yall...

Fuzzman

Guess Debmey and the Old School fraternity agree on these 4 crucial points without any futile resistence :-

1. THE HOLY SPIRIT CANNOT BE THE COMFORTER.

2. THE COUNSELOR MENTIONED IN JOHN 14:26 IS A UNBORN HUMAN AND NOT
    THE HOLY SPIRIT WHICH IS A THIRD PARTIAL DENOMINATION OF THE TRINITY
     BELIEF SYSTEM.

3. THERE IS NO KNOWLEDGE OF THE EXISTENCE OF THE COMFORTER BY BIBLE
    STANDARDS AS PROMISED BY JESUS IN JOHN 16:13.

4. THERE IS NO SOLID ARGUMENT TO DENY PROPHET MUHAMMAD THE RIGHT OF
    PLACE AS THE  PROMISED COMFORTER MENTIONED IN JOHN 16:13 BECAUSE
    PROPHET MUHAMMAD FITS THE CRITERIA OF A COMFORTER WHO ONLY SPEAKS
    OF WHAT HE HEARS FROM GABRIEL.

I'm afraid there won't be any comments coming from the Old School fraternity?

ARI FUZZMAN

Fuzzman

SEE I WAS RIGHT!
Debmey cannot prove that Prophet Mohammad is not the Comforter promised by Jesus.

More to come.

ARI FUZZMAN

greekgod

wow... that awesome fuzzman...

applause for you...

waiting for debmey to answer..

and hopefully he will not take wheel to left or right, but straight to the answer.. because he always do.. when he cannot answer, he will tend to talk about something else...

Debmey

1. THE HOLY SPIRIT CANNOT BE THE COMFORTER.

How could it not be the Holy Spirit. The Bible in John says very clearly that the Comforeter is a Holy Spirit.
The truth is, Mo could not have been the comforter.

2. THE COUNSELOR MENTIONED IN JOHN 14:26 IS A UNBORN HUMAN AND NOT
    THE HOLY SPIRIT WHICH IS A THIRD PARTIAL DENOMINATION OF THE TRINITY
     BELIEF SYSTEM.

Where did it say that it is an unborn human? Please show us.
Contrary to what yu claimed, the Bible says that the Comforter is not a human being.

3. THERE IS NO KNOWLEDGE OF THE EXISTENCE OF THE COMFORTER BY BIBLE
    STANDARDS AS PROMISED BY JESUS IN JOHN 16:13.

There are lots of mention of the Holy Spirit thorughout the Bible, so what nonsence are yu talking abt?

4. THERE IS NO SOLID ARGUMENT TO DENY PROPHET MUHAMMAD THE RIGHT OF
    PLACE AS THE  PROMISED COMFORTER MENTIONED IN JOHN 16:13 BECAUSE
    PROPHET MUHAMMAD FITS THE CRITERIA OF A COMFORTER WHO ONLY SPEAKS
    OF WHAT HE HEARS FROM GABRIEL.

I already did. I proved that Mo was never a prophet.
I cannot see how Mo could fit into teh description of the Comforter since Mo never appeared to any of Jesus disciples ever. Mo cannot live within man and most of all, Mo wasn't holy by any measure.

Effectively debunked.

What else?

nightlord

:cak:

Fuzzman

Debmey wrote: How could it not be the Holy Spirit. The Bible in John says very clearly that the Comforeter is a Holy Spirit. The truth is, Mo could not have been the comforter.

Make me a believer. Show me how the Comforter is the Holy Spirit hwen Jesus specifically says that  the Comforter is a genderised "HE"?

Debmey wrote: Where did it say that it is an unborn human? Please show us.
Contrary to what yu claimed, the Bible says that the Comforter is not a human being.

Where does it say that the Comforter is not human? So does the gender "HE" applies to the Holy Spirit? Are you saying that the Holy Spirit has gender?

Debmey wrote: There are lots of mention of the Holy Spirit thorughout the Bible, so what nonsence are yu talking abt?

YES, overwhelmingly the Bible proper is filled endlessly with the existence of the Holy Spirit but [there's always a but to kick Debbo's butt!] there's no clear-cut description or clue to the qualities of the Comforter that is yet to come? Briefly said, you do not know or can ever put a face to your Comforter, can you?

Debmey wrote: I already did. I proved that Mo was never a prophet.
I cannot see how Mo could fit into teh description of the Comforter since Mo never appeared to any of Jesus disciples ever. Mo cannot live within man and most of all, Mo wasn't holy by any measure.

You NEVER did prove nothing at all when it comes to Prophet Mohammad. You can't even bring yourself out to say out loud that Prophet Mohammad was a false prophet who preached false teachings. Joker? How can Prophet Mohammad "appear" to anybody when Jesus HIMSELF specifically says that this Comforter WILL ONLY COME AFTER HIS DEPARTURE.
Today Prophet Mohammad has succeeded in living in every man all over the world - including the likes of you. The Prophet lives in the believers who accept him as a Prophet of Islam and in non-believers like you whose deathwish is to run HIM down as much as possible. The prophet lives forever!

ARI FUZZMAN

Debmey

Make me a believer. Show me how the Comforter is the Holy Spirit hwen Jesus specifically says that  the Comforter is a genderised "HE"?
.

Make me a believer. Show me where did Mohd say that he is the Comforter.
Show me where did Jesus specifically say that Mohd is a Comforter.

Where does it say that the Comforter is not human? So does the gender "HE" applies to the Holy Spirit? Are you saying that the Holy Spirit has gender?

The Holy Spirit is mentioned throughout the Bible. Not just in John, so how can He be anyone else?

YES, overwhelmingly the Bible proper is filled endlessly with the existence of the Holy Spirit but [there's always a but to kick Debbo's butt!] there's no clear-cut description or clue to the qualities of the Comforter that is yet to come? Briefly said, you do not know or can ever put a face to your Comforter, can you?

Yes there is. He cannot be seen, He lives in men and He will be with men forever. None of which will fit Mo.

You NEVER did prove nothing at all when it comes to Prophet Mohammad. You can't even bring yourself out to say out loud that Prophet Mohammad was a false prophet who preached false teachings. Joker? How can Prophet Mohammad "appear" to anybody when Jesus HIMSELF specifically says that this Comforter WILL ONLY COME AFTER HIS DEPARTURE.
Today Prophet Mohammad has succeeded in living in every man all over the world - including the likes of you. The Prophet lives in the believers who accept him as a Prophet of Islam and in non-believers like you whose deathwish is to run HIM down as much as possible. The prophet lives forever!

Mohd was a false prophet.
So where did Mo say he is thye Comforter? Please show us.

cheers

Fuzzman

Debmey wrote: Make me a believer. Show me where did Mohd say that he is the Comforter. Show me where did Jesus specifically say that Mohd is a Comforter.

Brother believe me when I say that you're the last person I'd even contemplate of making a believer of. You already have your set of rules that you live by - a polemic code of sorts, where deceit is the order of your daily existence.
Prophet Mohammad did not say that he was the Comforter but HE did say that he brought the message of God to his countrymen. HE tells them of what he hears the angel of God tells HIM. As for Jesus, HE did not say SPECIFICALLY say that Mohammad was the Comforter but HE did say that the coming Comforter will only speak of what "HE" hears.So do you see anything in common? Don't worry. I don't really expect you to see anything at all. That is not your perogrative here. You only speak what your upline tells you to!

Debmey wrote: The Holy Spirit is mentioned throughout the Bible. Not just in John, so how can He be anyone else?

The Bible very clearly without parameters, that the Holy Spirit is the Comforter and the Counselor at the same time. And it also genderised that identity as a male gender of a "HE" description. So who can that be by your Bible standards?

Debmey wrote: Yes there is. He cannot be seen, He lives in men and He will be with men forever. None of which will fit Mo.

Yes there is...but then you cannot eloborate more on this. You do not know who that Comforter really is? What a shame for this sham!

Debmey wrote: Mohd was a false prophet.

...really? Then prove it to be true if you can [which you [f word]ing 2:24 can't!]

ARI FUZZMAN

[ Last edited by Fuzzman on 5-2-2005 at 02:27 AM ]

Debmey

Prophet Mohammad did not say that he was the Comforter

He isn't one, Thats right. He was the oppressor, not comforter.

but HE did say that he brought the message of God to his countrymen. HE tells them of what he hears the angel of God tells HIM.

The Comforter hears directly from God, not fhru an agent like Mo. Mo could not have been a prophet not comforter.

As for Jesus, HE did not say SPECIFICALLY say that Mohammad was the Comforter but HE did say that the coming Comforter will only speak of what "HE" hears.So do you see anything in common? Don't worry. I don't really expect you to see anything at all. That is not your perogrative here. You only speak what your upline tells you to!

Mo spoke more than what he heard from the spirit, so how can Mo fit?

The Bible very clearly without parameters, that the Holy Spirit is the Comforter and the Counselor at the same time. And it also genderised that identity as a male gender of a "HE" description. So who can that be by your Bible standards?

Surely yu haven't been reading the Bible urself.
Comforter is used in KJV while Counsellor is used in NIV. They are never used together. You must be a joke Fuzzzy. Ahahahahahahahaha..........
Mo is still not the Comfoirter nor the counsellor no matter what yu say. He was teh anti Christ and an oppressor.

Yes there is...but then you cannot eloborate more on this. You do not know who that Comforter really is? What a shame for this sham!

The Holy Spiirit cannot be seen, just as teh Bible says. Mo surely coyuld not be the Holy spirit then.

...really? Then prove it to be true if you can [which you [f word]ing 2:24 can't!]

I already did.

Fuzzman

Debmey wrote: He isn't one, Thats right. He was the oppressor, not comforter.

YES YOU ARE RIGHT. Prophet Mohammad is both. Two in one..but not three in one. Prophet Mohammad was indeed prominent in duality where HE was Oppressor and Comforter.
Oppressor to those who refuse to accept the Singularity of God and Comforter to those who accept God's Monotheism. That is why  you seek to picture the prophet as a Oppressor because of your Polytheistic worship of God.

Debmey wrote: The Comforter hears directly from God, not fhru an agent like Mo. Mo could not have been a prophet not comforter.

You obviously do not know what you speaketh. Do you know what means John 16:14? It clearly shows that the coming Comforter - a Spirit of Truth - will carry out the task of continuity from whence left off Jesus. For this Comforter shall "glorify" Jesus not for what Jesus is, but for WHAT JESUS STOOD FOR. What then say you on this? For this Comforter - the coming Spirit of Truth shall receive of what Jesus represented and stood for. None other than the final revelation in consistency with the Old Testament and not the New Testament. So who is that Comforter by your biblical standards?
As for Jesus, HE did not SPECIFICALLY say that Mohammad was the Comforter but, HE did say that the coming Comforter will only speak of what "HE" hears. So do you see anything in common? Don't worry. I don't really expect you to see anything at all. That is not your perogrative here. You only speak what your upline tells you to!

Debmey wrote: Surely yu haven't been reading the Bible urself. Comforter is used in KJV while Counsellor is used in NIV. They are never used together. You must be a joke Fuzzzy. Ahahahahahahahaha.......

I haven't been reading the Bible you say?  That's for me to know and for you to find out, but thus far I've been making you keep your watch. Be on the lookout.
No matter what they are mentioned in your many versions and translations, they all bind to the fact that they mention the Holy Spirit and the Comforter together as the Comforter, Counselor and the Spirit of Truth. Can the Holy Spirit exist without any one of these components?

Debmey wrote: Mo is still not the Comfoirter nor the counsellor no matter what yu say. He was teh anti Christ and an oppressor.

Like I said it before and will again now. I respect the fact that you work within a spectrum of apologetic concerns that somewhat discounts you of ever accepting defeat and proof of truth with regards of what Fuzzman or any New School bros have gotta say. We know your sufferings and we sympathise with you for being in a self-chosen head banger of a situation.

Debmey wrote: Mohd was a false prophet.

So where is the proof? You have to tell us in a very very clear manner and it should sound off like this:-
PROPHET MOHAMMAD IS A FALSE PROPHET WHO BRINGS FALSE TEACHINGS.
So simple and yet so hard on you to come out saying it like it is.

Debmey wrote: The Holy Spiirit cannot be seen, just as teh Bible says. Mo surely coyuld not be the Holy spirit then.

How you contradict the Bible whose verses differ from your personal opinion.
John 16:7 - "Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you."
John 16:8 - "And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:"
John 16:12 - "I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now."
John 16:13 - "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come."
John 16:14 - "He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew [it] unto you."

Was the Holy Spirit present in Jesus when HE said the above-mentioned verses?
Isn't the Holy Spirit a part of the Trinitarian worship?
So if Jesus was already the Holy Spirit, surely you do not expect Jesus to send HIMSELF again because the Jews could not accept what HE has got to say for the moment?
The above will make the Holy Spirit - the coming Spirit of Truth - visible or otherwise by what is narrated in the verses above?

So looks like you have a lot of stuff you need to address from now. So get working on it fren.

ARI FUZZMAN

[ Last edited by Fuzzman on 5-2-2005 at 02:08 PM ]

Debmey

YES YOU ARE RIGHT. Prophet Mohammad is both. Two in one..but not three in one. Prophet Mohammad was indeed prominent in duality where HE was Oppressor and Comforter.
Oppressor to those who refuse to accept the Singularity of God and Comforter to those who accept God's Monotheism. That is why  you seek to picture the prophet as a Oppressor because of your Polytheistic worship of God.

Yes you are correct, he two in one? As in rapists and paedohile.

You obviously do not know what you speaketh. Do you know what means John 16:14? It clearly shows that the coming Comforter - a Spirit of Truth - will carry out the task of continuity from whence left off Jesus.

Mohd did not carry on what Jesus did. Not at all.
Jesus worked miracles, love and compassion, Mo worked oppression, rape, paedophilia and terrorism.
So how can mo be Comforter? Especially when he did not appear to Jesus disciples as cl;early spoelt out by Jesus?

For this Comforter shall "glorify" Jesus not for what Jesus is, but for WHAT JESUS STOOD FOR. What then say you on this? For this Comforter - the coming Spirit of Truth shall receive of what Jesus represented and stood for. None other than the final revelation in consistency with the Old Testament and not the New Testament. So who is that Comforter by your biblical standards?
As for Jesus, HE did not SPECIFICALLY say that Mohammad was the Comforter but, HE did say that the coming Comforter will only speak of what "HE" hears. So do you see anything in common? Don't worry. I don't really expect you to see anything at all. That is not your perogrative here. You only speak what your upline tells you to!

I don't think Mo's behavior glorifies anyone.
Mo's message was also inconsistent with the Old Testament, in fact he broke almost all the 10 commandments except one cos he was an orphan and had no chance to disrespect his parents.

I haven't been reading the Bible you say?  That's for me to know and for you to find out, but thus far I've been making you keep your watch. Be on the lookout.

Thats right. You don't know what yu were talking abt. You quoted from two versions of translation as if they are one. You have no idea yu made a big fool of yourself. Ahahahahahahahahahaha....................

No matter what they are mentioned in your many versions and translations, they all bind to the fact that they mention the Holy Spirit and the Comforter together as the Comforter, Counselor and the Spirit of Truth. Can the Holy Spirit exist without any one of these components?

Yes, the Holy Spirit may be unseen but he does work alright. Thats the secret to Christian power. Thats why we are so powerful. I have ministered exorcism and divine healings in Jesus name so many time i lost count. Not only me but Christians all over the world too. Praise God!  Do you minister divine power in Jesus name my fren?

Was the Holy Spirit present in Jesus when HE said the above-mentioned verses?
Isn't the Holy Spirit a part of the Trinitarian worship?
So if Jesus was already the Holy Spirit, surely you do not expect Jesus to send HIMSELF again because the Jews could not accept what HE has got to say for the moment?
The above will make the Holy Spirit - the coming Spirit of Truth - visible or otherwise by what is narrated in the verses above?

John14:15揑f you love me, you will obey what I command. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever

Fuzzman

So who's the Comforter? Any clues yet ?

ARI FUZZMAN

Debmey

The Comforter is the Holy Spirit.

John14:26 But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

cheers

Fuzzman

Nonsense. So in the Trinitarian sense, how can the Father sent something that is in the begining HIMSELF as Jesus, another time in the future again send HIMSELF in HIS own name, when Jesus specifically says that they [ the Jews] cannot accept what he has yet to say to them? EXPLAIN.

ARI FUZZMAN

Fuzzman

So what's your answer Debbo? You don't seem to know a whole lot of things here dontcha? Can it be that the Holy Spirit hasn't touched you at all?

ARI FUZZMAN

Debmey

Fuzzy don't even know what he is talking about. The Trinity is three seperate persons. Problems solved.

KaiserPheonix

Ha! Your answer caught you rd-handed... Hear that GG? Trinity is 3 separate person..

greekgod

Originally posted by Debmey at 16-2-2005 04:41 AM:
Fuzzy don't even know what he is talking about. The Trinity is three seperate persons. Problems solved.

OK.. i got it already!!!

hahah.. so, the claim that trinity is one is not true, and the math for 1+1+1 is solved, and therefore can be concluded that trinity is kind of polythiest.... which god do you serve most debmey? (will other god get angry?)