Dear Sis Baiduri, Why are Muslimahs So Badly In Islam?

Debmey · Post time 11-3-2005 02:23 PM

When I read Aisha's story and see how muslimahs all over the world are subjected to oppression, I pity them. I also read how muhamad treated women, its bad.
I know many muslimahs secretly wish they are not muslims, very sad.

Show all posts · Post time 11-3-2005 04:43 PM

Originally posted by Debmey at 2005-3-11 02:23 PM:
When I read Aisha's story and see how muslimahs all over the world are subjected to oppression, I pity them. I also read how muhamad treated women, its bad.
I know many muslimahs secretly wish the ...

Another sign of desperation after an embarrasing defeat. The strength of the Muslimah in defending Islam will never be dampened. History has shown. Its good that you do this time and again because you will be sure to get the taste of your own medicine, from the respectable ladies of Islam - time and again.

[ Last edited by KENNKID on 11-3-2005 at 04:48 PM ]

Debmey · Post time 12-3-2005 12:30 AM

I think yu people have a lot of strength to beat your muslimahs.

Show all posts · Post time 12-3-2005 12:54 AM

Originally posted by Debmey at 2005-3-12 12:30 AM:
I think yu people have a lot of strength to beat your muslimahs.

Do we beat our Muslimahs? Maybe some who DO NOT follow Islam, the Qur'an and the holy messenger's exemplary behavior. Wife beating is a christian strength. So is sexual perversion and the abuse of women. We can't beat you. You win.

Maybe the following will help you:

Sexual underworlds developed in some dioceses and in some Religious Congregations. The 7%-10% of priests and Brothers who have sexually molested minors has been merely the tip of an iceberg of infidelity. In the United States, as a result of exhaustive researches over 35 years, Richard Sipe found that four times as many priests were (at some points in their lives) engaged in heterosexual sex as molested children, and some 12% - 15% had gay sexual experience."

Barry M Coldrey, RELIGIOUS LIFE WITHOUT INTEGRITY

"Four in 10 US Catholic nuns report having experienced sexual abuse, (a rate equivalent to that reported by American women in general), a study by Catholic researchers supported by major religious orders, has found. The study found that sisters have known sexual abuse less in childhood, dispelling what the authors call an "anti-Catholic" canard that girls fled to convents to escape sexual advances. During religious life, close to 30% of the nation's 85,000 nuns experienced "sexual trauma," ranging from rape to exploitation to harassment. A total of 40% reported a least one experience of that kind. NCR, 1/15/99

The Wisconsin Psychological Association's survey found offenders distributed among the following professions: Psychiatrists 34%, Psychologists 19%, Social Workers 13%, Clergy 11%, Physicians 6%, Marriage Counselors 4%, and Others 14%.

The Center for Domestic Violence found that 12.6% of clergy said they had sex with church members. 47% of clergy women were harassed by clergy colleagues.

The Presbyterian Church stated that 10-23% of clergy have "inappropriate sexual behavior or contact" with clergy and employees.

The United Methodist research (1990) showed 38.6% of Ministers had sexual contact with church members and that 77% of church workers experienced some type of sexual harassment.

The United Church of Christ found that 48% of the women in the work place have been sexually harassed by male clergy.

The Southern Baptists claim 14.1% of their clergy have sexually abused members.

In the Roman Catholic Church there are over 800 priests that have been removed from ministry as a result of allegations against them. We also know of 1,400 insurance claims on the books and that the Church has paid out over $1 billion in liability with an estimated $500 million pending.

One noted expert claims that there are over 5,000 priests with some type of allegation against them. If this is true, then there are at least 1,000,000 direct victims of clergy sexual abuse and between 4-6 million indirect victims in the U.S."

Some more facts here:

http://www.pinn.net/~sunshine/book-sum/xtian2.html

This realistic look at the wife beating problem is written by an American Muslimah:

Domestic violence represented by wife beating or abuse is rampant in the United States and around the world. While the exact numbers on domestic violence incidents differ, because this is such an under-reported crime there are statistics on which most experts agree.

1. In 1984 the US Surgeon General declared domestic violence as this nation's number one health problem. (US Surgeon General)

2. A woman is beaten every 15 seconds by her partner; it happens at some time in 25-35 % of American homes; 4,000 women die from such abuse each year. (FBI)

3. Physical abuse by male social partners is the single most common source of injury among women ages 15 to 44, more common than auto accidents, muggings and rape by a stranger combined. (U.S. Surgeon General, 1989)

4. In USA, medical costs from domestic violence total at least $3-5 billion annually. At least another $100 million can be added to the cost to businesses in lost wages, sick leave and absenteeism. (Sylvia Porter, For Your Money's Worth)

5.Women of all cultures, races, occupations, income levels, and ages are battered - by husbands, boyfriends, lovers and partners. (Surgeon General Antonia Novello, as quoted in Domestic Violence: Battered Women, publication of the Reference Department of the Cambridge Public Library, Cambridge, MA)

6.Approximately one-third of the men counseled (for battering) at Emerge are professional men who are well respected in their jobs and their communities. these have included doctors, psychologists, lawyers, ministers, and business executives. (For Shelter and Beyond, Massachusetts Coalition of Battered Women Service Groups, Boston, MA 1990)

Statistics as these should awaken all those in denial of the fact that wife beating and abuse is an endemic disease in all different cultures, religions and communities. It is as common in Western as it is in Eastern societies.

Men in Western (and Eastern) societies do not abuse their wives because of scriptural teachings, but because of a natural instinct of domination and aggression. God, knowing this, has therefore decreed a perfect law to help men control their temper and to solve any problems before resorting to physical aggression.

These statistics reflect the failure of modern societies in treating this perilous condition in men. Despite advances in modern psychology and improved understanding of behavioral patterns of men, civilized and uncivilized, a successful solution to this aggressive behavior has not been found by man.

A solution has however been presented to the world in the Qur'an, the Final Testament, more than 1400 years ago, in verse 4:34.

[4:34] The men are made responsible for the women, and GOD has endowed them with certain qualities, and made them the bread earners. The righteous women will cheerfully accept this arrangement, since it is GOD's commandment, and honor their husbands during their absence. If you experience rebellion from the women, you shall first talk to them, then (you may use negative incentives like) deserting them in bed, then you may (as a last alternative) beat them. If they obey you, you are not permitted to transgress against them. GOD is Most High, Supreme.

Further reading:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/view_of_women_rebuttal.htm

[ Last edited by KENNKID on 12-3-2005 at 01:05 AM ]

Debmey · Post time 12-3-2005 08:28 AM

TEXT FROM THE QURAN, 4:34 - Teaching you to beat your Muslimah wife.

RODWELL [1]:  "Men are superior to women on account of the qualities with which God has gifted the one above the other, and on account of the outlay they make from their substance for them.  Virtuous women are obedient, careful, during the husband's absence, because God has of them been careful.  But chide those for whose refractoriness you have cause to fear; remove them into beds apart, and scourge them:  but if they are obedient to you, then seek not occasion against them:  verily, God is High, Great!"

['Refractoriness' means hard or impossible to manage, stubbornly disobedient'].

DAWOOD [2]:  "Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient.  They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them.  As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them.  Then if they obey you, take no further action against them.  Surely God is high, supreme."

PICKTHALL [3]:  "Men are in charge of women, because Allah has made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women).  So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah has guarded.  As for those from whom you fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them.  Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them.  Lo!  Allah is ever High Exalted, Great."

ARBERRY [4]:  "Men are the managers of the affairs of women for that God has preferred in bounty one of them over another, and for that they have expended of their property.  Righteous women are therefore obedient, guarding the secret for God's guarding.  And those you fear may be rebellious admonish; banish them to their couches, and beat them.  If they then obey you, look not for any way against them; God is All high, All great."

SHAKIR [5]:  Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in their sleeping places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

Baiduri Othman · Post time 12-3-2005 08:50 AM

Originally posted by Debmey at 2005-3-11 02:23 PM:
When I read Aisha's story and see how muslimahs all over the world are subjected to oppression, I pity them. I also read how muhamad treated women, its bad.
I know many muslimahs secretly wish the ...

My response:-

I can't help smiling. Sorry I didn't see this thread.

Whatever it's, never read anything that the Prophet oppressed women. In fact, women were free to question him, disagree & discuss with him during his period. Even women were given freedom to vote & voice out their opinions.

I really pity you Debmey.

Debmey · Post time 12-3-2005 08:52 AM

If mo respected women so much, why did he gave all those verses to beat wives?

Baiduri Othman · Post time 12-3-2005 08:52 AM

Actually, who fought for the rights of women? Women's Liberation anyone???? Any idea why the Western women fought for their rights?

Debmey · Post time 12-3-2005 08:55 AM

Can you show me from the Quran about Mo being respectful of women? As far as I know, he saw muslimahs as lower than men.

Baiduri Othman · Post time 12-3-2005 09:06 AM

Originally posted by Debmey at 2005-3-12 08:55 AM:
Can you show me from the Quran about Mo being respectful of women? As far as I know, he saw muslimahs as lower than men.

My response:-

Well, since you're the one highlighting the issue, why don't you show us? Show us the Prophet downgrading the Muslimahs. Despite of your claims, it was the Western women who fought for Women's Liberation. But too bad, until now they still remain as sex objects.

Debmey · Post time 12-3-2005 09:10 AM

TEXT FROM THE QURAN, 4:34 - Teaching you to beat your Muslimah wife.

RODWELL [1]:  "Men are superior to women on account of the qualities with which God has gifted the one above the other, and on account of the outlay they make from their substance for them.  Virtuous women are obedient, careful, during the husband's absence, because God has of them been careful.  But chide those for whose refractoriness you have cause to fear; remove them into beds apart, and scourge them:  but if they are obedient to you, then seek not occasion against them:  verily, God is High, Great!"

['Refractoriness' means hard or impossible to manage, stubbornly disobedient'].

DAWOOD [2]:  "Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient.  They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them.  As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them.  Then if they obey you, take no further action against them.  Surely God is high, supreme."

PICKTHALL [3]:  "Men are in charge of women, because Allah has made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women).  So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah has guarded.  As for those from whom you fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them.  Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them.  Lo!  Allah is ever High Exalted, Great."

ARBERRY [4]:  "Men are the managers of the affairs of women for that God has preferred in bounty one of them over another, and for that they have expended of their property.  Righteous women are therefore obedient, guarding the secret for God's guarding.  And those you fear may be rebellious admonish; banish them to their couches, and beat them.  If they then obey you, look not for any way against them; God is All high, All great."

SHAKIR [5]:  Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in their sleeping places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

Baiduri Othman · Post time 12-3-2005 09:14 AM

I see, it got to do with wife beating. Can Muslim men beat their wives as they like?

Debmey · Post time 12-3-2005 09:25 AM

They get to beat under religion, thats bad enough.

Baiduri Othman · Post time 12-3-2005 09:29 AM

Originally posted by Debmey at 2005-3-12 09:25 AM:
They get to beat under religion, thats bad enough.

My response:-

But it doesn't mean the Muslim men can abuse the verses as they wish. Do you get that? Muslim women can complain to the Mahkamah Syariah b'coz Islamic laws protect their rights & ask for divorce. It's up to the women themselves. Do Christians have such laws anyway?

Debmey · Post time 12-3-2005 09:30 AM

Get a divorce and then starve?

Christians don't have teachings to beat wives like Islam does.
True Islam clearly does not respect women.

13Friday · Post time 12-3-2005 09:33 AM

where do we stand in the religions of Islam?

Baiduri Othman · Post time 12-3-2005 09:38 AM

Originally posted by Debmey at 2005-3-12 09:30 AM:
Get a divorce and then starve?

Christians don't have teachings to beat wives like Islam does.
True Islam clearly does not respect women.

My response:-

Debmey is stuck as usual! Even there's nothing like wives' beating in the Bible, I assume but still men can punish their wives & women can't ask for divorce. No wonder the laws in the Bible is no longer applicable in the modern days. No wonder the Western women struggled for their rights ie. Women Liberation.

BTW, women are just sexual objects as described in your Bible. How do you explain that?

[ Last edited by Baiduri Othman on 12-3-2005 at 09:40 AM ]