then tell us how crocodile does matter in our ecosystem, esp. in srawak?...u cant just simply asking ppl please dont do this, dont do that but then fail to justify the reason behind that...:pmuka:...
i'm sure you're familiar with food chain. buaya is among top level predators.
introduction or elimination of new elements, be it some tiny insects or massive elephants may disrupt the balance (i think you can call it an equilibrium too). too many of a species is usually destructive. for example, if A eats B, B eats C, C eats D, and A is eliminated, there may be too many of B, too little of C, to many of D as a result (of course the real equation that only God knows is a lot more complicated than this exmple). D, when they're too many of them, may cause severe damage to the nature. The result may be too undesirable for humans, if not fatal.
Thus, since we do not know every bit of how it works or if we can ever fix it should something goes wrong, we'd better prevent from screwing it up.
For more:
http://www.greenfacts.org/ecosystems/index.htm Originally posted by BeanDiesel at 5-10-2006 04:27 PM
i'm sure you're familiar with food chain. buaya is among top level predators.
introduction or elimination of new elements, be it some tiny insects or massive elephants may disrupt the balan ...
crocodile is the highest on river's food chain...so what if there's no crocodile?...fishes volume increased?....ppl get more fishes from river?...ecosystem may be changed, but nothing wrong if it bring advantages to us.... Kalo takder buaya.. camner sang kancil nak menyeberangi sungai nak makan rambutan,,huhuhuhu:setuju: Iye laaahhh...tapi dapatlah aku merasa beg Gucci kulit buaya!!
Ish..tak baiklah aku ni..kesian boye.. Originally posted by philipinoe2 at 10/5/06 12:47 AM
crocodile is the highest on river's food chain...so what if there's no crocodile?...fishes volume increased?....ppl get more fishes from river?...ecosystem may be changed, but nothing wrong if it bring advantages to us....
it's likely that the population of fishes (various species) will increase. Is that good for humans? Not necessarily. Why?
Let's say there's only one type of fish in that area, and crocodiles, before they were exterminated consumed them. So we get rid of the crocodiles, there will be more fish for human consumption. Partly good. But what if there are way more fish than we can consume to control the ecological balance? (Remember, we don't know the equation, we can't predict how many fish will end up populating the river).
And of course there should be more than one species of fish there. And of course crocodiles don't only eat fish, they eat many types of animals they can overpower. Humans don't have crocodiles appetite. We don't eat whatever crocodiles eat. So what will happen? Will end up having more animals of species we don't consume. That will harm the balance. And then what? Kill those animals we don't need? If we do that, we may end up having to deal with other downstream problems that's caused by that. It's like a chain reaction.
So, better not mess it up. We can't afford to be short-sighted here. We have to look at the big picture.
[ Last edited byBeanDiesel at 5-10-2006 09:44 PM ] Yeaaahhh!! U go beanDiesel!! I sapot u from behind, beside and in front! it's quite ridiculuous for people to searching for the crocodile that ate kid..... its pointless.... killing innocent crocodile until found the guilty one not only is not humane its stupid.... why should we kill unnecessarily .... becoz of one man obsession.... i think the father accept the fact that his son is already gone..... and killing more crocodile wont do any good.... that guy could be jailed or sumthing ... because slaughtering an endangered species ......my advice....pity the crocodiles there are just mindless creature.... they cannot do anything more than what they are set to do.... find peace with god and move on.... giving in to hate and anger ....only fuel it more DENGAN RASMINYA...
MENGISYTIHARKAN..
KEMENANGAN MUTLAK KE ATAS KAMI YANG MEMPERJUANGKAN KETIDAKWAJARAN PEMBUNUHAN BERTERUSAN BUAYA-BUAYA SARAWAK!
VICTORY!
p/s we are the best, you are the worst! and thats it! i think there's another way ... nk cek buaya tu mkn org ke tak .... kire safe takde bius takde bedah ... just buat buaya tu muntah jerk ... ari tu pegawai perhilitan ader wat cam tu .... and mmg tak der paper pon dlm perut buaya tu (human reamain)... but still bapak budak tu nk belah perut boya tu ... sian boya tu .... tak sempat nk lawat anak bini dh kojol .... ditgn org yg jahil dan obses Fianlly..This is what we call VICTORY! Pertarungan hidup manusia dan buaya
Oleh: SAYED HESHAM IDRIS (WARTAWAN UTUSAN)
TARIKH 3 Oktober genap sebulan murid lelaki berusia 12 tahun, Mohamad Azuan Hatta dibaham buaya di Sungai Sarawak, Kampung Bako.
Murid tahun enam itu hilang sehingga kini setelah dipercayai dibaham buaya ketika mandi di Sungai Bako dekat Kuching, iaitu sehari sebelum menduduki Ujian Penilaian Sekolah Rendah (UPSR).
Hati ibu bapa mana tidak remuk redam mengenangkan anak kesayangan serta menjadi harapan keluarga hilang tanpa dapat dikebumikan jenazahnya.
Jadi tidak hairanlah bapa mangsa, Hatta Ariffin dan penduduk kampung mula melancarkan gerakan memburu reptilia yang dikatakan bertanggungjawab menyebabkan kematian itu.
Maka berlakulah konflik di antara manusia dan buaya sehingga sukar untuk diadili adakah salah atau benar tindakan bapa mangsa serta penduduk kampung memburu dan membunuh buaya di sungai berkenaan.
Sehingga kini reptilia yang membaham mangsa masih gagal ditangkapnya walaupun operasi memburunya dijalankan setiap hari.
Setakat kini, tiga daripada empat ekor 憇ang bedal Originally posted by Syd at 10/8/06 05:44 PM
Tragedi yang menimpa Mohamad Azuan menyedarkan kita bahawa spesies haiwan terlindung itu semakin berani atau mungkin juga terdesak menghampiri penempatan manusia untuk mencari makanan.
Hmm, bukanke dalam kes ini mangsa tu yang menghampiri penempatan buaya tu?
Aktiviti nelayan secara komersial dan pemburuan binatang seperti kera atau monyet menyebabkan sumber makanan untuk buaya semakin kurang sehingga haiwan itu terdesak mencari sumber lain yang berhampiran.
Yup, that's what happens when we disrupt the balance. We'll have to pay for it sooner or later. well kalu bace stetment tuh, nmpk sgt dah xde makanan utk boye dlm sg bako whatever tu sampai dier mule baham budak aka manusia..
aku x paham nape stil ade makhluk berfikiran cetek yg pk psl food chain la eko system la padehal x leh nk prove saintifikelli mcm mane dgn ketiadaan buaye dlm sg bako buleh cause harm to ekosystem kat sane...:nerd:...kalu pon x bunuh sume, ape salahnye reduce their number...stil buaye tu ade dlm sg bako, stil diorg ade plenty of food to be consumed, stil diorg maybe x dtg habitat ppl etc....
kalu korg fantaik animal planet aka steve irwin, msti korg salu tgk dlm siri dier transfer buaye yg ganas dr sg masuk dlm zoo dier...pesal?...sbb dier tau ade 2 possibility, same ade buaye tu attack ppl, or ppl attack buaye tuh...so, pesal korg yg saport pembunuh tu x sajest kat jabatan perhilitan srawak tu supaya transfer buaye2 yg besar2 cnth mcm yg melebihi 1.4 m masuk dlm mane2 zoo or bunuh je, pas tu kulit dier kiter jual, jd beg korg yg pmpuan buleh beli henbeg dr kulit buaye made in srawak!!..amacam?...:nerd:
kill those killers!! Originally posted by philipinoe2 at 10/8/06 09:25 PM
aku x paham nape stil ade makhluk berfikiran cetek yg pk psl food chain la eko system la padehal x leh nk prove saintifikelli mcm mane dgn ketiadaan buaye dlm sg bako buleh cause harm to ekosystem kat sane......kalu pon x bunuh sume, ape salahnye reduce their number...stil buaye tu ade dlm sg bako, stil diorg ade plenty of food to be consumed, stil diorg maybe x dtg habitat ppl etc....
clearly you don't have poor understanding of science. In science, there are things that you can predict. Like how foce and affect the momentum of an object. You have the exact equation that relates the force and momentum change. There are also things that are still unknown or unpredictable to men. Things like turbulence of fluid particle for example, cannot be modelled mathematically. Our understanding of it is very limited, though we know it happens.
You fail to understand that, yet you blame others as "berfikiran cetek". Nobody knows exactly how much (in terms of exact number) the eleminiation of crocodiles will affect the ecosystem, that's a fact. Comparably, no one knows exactly how much of the ozone will be saved should one factory is closed, and that's a fact too. We humans don't have the equation that governs every single thing about nature. But we do understand that burning of too much hydrocarbon will affect the average temperature of the earth, thus we should aviod it. And we do understand that interfering with the wildlife may destroy the ecosystem, thus we should avoid that too. For both cases, (if you follow) we have no exact equation of how much a micro-changes (one factory and elimination of one species) affect the macro-system. So what do we do? Pretend as if such actions doesn't affect the system?
go read this. it should give you some introduction of the food chain.
http://www.scienceaid.co.uk/biology/ecology/predation.html
Don't expect me to teach you about this. You should have learnt all these in school. I did, so should you.
and by the way, stop calling people bad things. I can do that against you too, but I haven't, have I? Don't make me start, because I'm good at insulting too. I just don't do it unless I have no confidence in my arguments. How about you? Are you not confident enough in your arguments that you need to call people bad stuff? chill out men, my bad word is used ONLY against ppl who have limited knowledge, are u within that group?...:nerd:...SIAPA YG MAKAN NASIK,DIE LA YG KENYANG, 'member?....:pmuka:
STEVE IRWIN THEORY
simple math: 7000 crocs + live near ppl habitat x ppl go fishing etc in the same river - less food = crocs attack ppl!
solution: kill/ reduce crocs number + ppl have more food sources + no wildlife elimination + crocs have plenty of food = ppl & crocs live in harmony = crocs wont attack ppl...:pmuka: Originally posted by philipinoe2 at 10/9/06 12:38 AM
chill out men, my bad word is used ONLY against ppl who have limited knowledge, are u within that group?...:nerd:...SIAPA YG MAKAN NASIK,DIE LA YG KENYANG, 'member?....:pmuka:
You talk about X to Mr.A, and Mr.A talks about X to you. And you clearly implied that someone who talked about X to you is Y. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that you were calling Mr.A Y.
I was the one that talks a lot about ecosystem to you, thus, clearly you were saying that against me. To tell you the truth, I do view you as someone with very limited knowledge and perspective, but I don't need to point it out nor humiliate you. It's a cheap tactic, it's immoral, it's inethical.
You have different ideas, I have different ideas. I like healthy argument with people of different point of views, as long as the argument remains healthy, free of insults among the participants. So come on, let's argue with valid arguments, not pointless insults. Let's show respect to each other.
[ Last edited byBeanDiesel at 10-10-2006 12:22 AM ] Originally posted by philipinoe2 at 10/9/06 12:38 AM
STEVE IRWIN THEORY
simple math: 7000 crocs + live near ppl habitat x ppl go fishing etc in the same river - less food = crocs attack ppl!
solution: kill/ reduce crocs number + ppl have more food sources + no wildlife elimination + crocs have plenty of food = ppl & crocs live in harmony = crocs wont attack ppl...
1) Please show the source of the information that
a) there are approximately 7000 crocs over there
b) that is indeed Irwin's theory
2) Yes, if you kill crocs, indeed the source of food due to the elimination of the predator that prey on human food source will increase. I did not deny that, in fact, I did say that a few times before (check my previous posts, ask me for the post number if you want me to show it to you).
However, I did say that we cannot predict whether our consumption of the extra food will be able to sustain the balance. The effect following that may be even more destructive.
Again, I cannot give you the exact number of fish that will be available to humans should the crocs are eliminated or killed in large number, as much as you will not be able to provide me with the exact number of humans that will be killed in 10 years if the crocs remain the way there are, or the change in mean income of the local population if the crocs are eliminated or killed in large number. Those are the numbers that no man can provide with absolute certainty, nor formulate some high-precision equations. This is not physics. hmmm...
korang ni menyamakan pemikiran bandar dan intelek korang dengan pemikiran kampungan diorang yang bunuh buaya tu.
aku tau la macam mana pemikiran diiorang tu sbb aku pernah jugak bergaul mesra dgn penduduk kat situ. tau kan, pemikiran melayu lama.. kampungan... diorang tak mudah berfikir panjang. kalau diorang jenis yang berfikiran panjang, diorang takkan masih hidup di takuk lama mcm tu...
kalau nak kata, kenapa biar anak dia mandi kat sungai? kalau kpg tu belom ada kemudahan paip? kalau lagi kata kenapa tak teman kan anak dia mandi kat sungai? kita bukannya dpt kontrol pergerakan budak budak kecik mcm tu esp yg duduk kampung. mmg dah biasa budak budak main dgn kawan kawan diorang tanpa pengawasan orang tua. lagipun sblm ni tak dgr lagi orang kena baham buaya kat bako. kalau kat btg lupar mmg byk la..
u can never imagine the crocodile's population here in sarawak. setakat yang panjang berbelas kaki tu, korang boleh senang senang je jumpa kat area sungai sungai besar kat sini. even kat sg sarawak yg tengah tengah bandar tu pun byk buaya... pernah satu ketika dulu orang tua ambik wudhu' kat tepi sungai kena baham tangan dia ngan buaya.. just imagine orang dewasa pun boleh kena baham ini kan pulak budak kecik...
i'm not defending anyone.. dlm kes ni aku lebih suka berdiri atas pagar walaupun aku sayang jugak tengok buaya besar tu kena tangkap.. mmg dah ratus² tahun umur buaya tu. tapi, kita tak dpt menidakkan tabiat manusia terutamanya yang sukar mengawal kemarahan walaupun dikurnia kan otak. dan tindakkan bapak budak tu mmg salah tetapi aku tak nafikan ianya tak mempengaruhi populasi buaya di sini....
just my 10cent opinion.. no heart feeling..... peace!