The Koran and the Jews

The OT also said that we should stone our children to death if they are stubborn and handicap people, including flat nose person and dwarf cannot approach god.  

Are we disobeying Him since Jesus said he did not bring a new religion but of Moses?

Rosie.... Jesus came to keep Moses' law and taught others to obey the law. However, he did not come to sentence to death those who have fall short of fulfilling the law. Jesus came to forgive them. Their shortcomings.

When the teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group and said to Jesus, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?" They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.
But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground. At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?"
"No one, sir," she said. "Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."

sonny~~

Originally posted by Debmey at 2004-6-24 02:44 PM:
We don't see any raping and genocide at all. So wats the problem?
Shouting and posting a million times won't change the facts.

We do however see botyh the Bible and Quran affirming the ...

o yes chosen one outcast imported jews did hell lot of rapin of PALESTINE n genocide of PALESTINIANS to fulfil yahweh god's supposedly call to get israel.  read SONNYs postins up there n KENNYs too.  dont be lazy.  read  

peace

Originally posted by KENNKID at 2004-6-24 04:23 PM:


Rape and genocide  has taken place and is still taking place

LONDON, UK,

23 June 2002 -- Over 80 women in Nablus were raped and
beaten by Israeli troops, who also killed many of their husbands and
relatives trying to intervene, according to a testimony sent to
British Labour MP Lynne Jones.

The testimony was sent by Anthony Razook by e-mail from Bethlehem
[Palestine] after witnessing three Israeli soldiers taking turns to
violate his four-months pregnant sister and shooting her husband
three times in the back of the neck.

"In Nablus, there were calls made from cell phones that tell us over
86 women were raped and beaten and there is many of the men, their
husbands that have been killed when they were trying to stop these
soldiers," he said.

sonny~~

Originally posted by Adm_Cheng_Ho at 2004-6-24 04:00 PM:
Debmey,

What Sonny is doing is actually in your favour. The bulk of his posting are curses to warn the Jews not to turn their back on God. In Deuteronomy, fourteen verses describe the blessings  ...

wrong donkey.  SONNYs HARDfact postins r from UNISPAL, notable papers n sites etc.  n me postins have proven beyond reasonable doubt chosen one outcast improted jews indeed have raped PALESTINE n genocide PALESTINIANS to get israel.  

but this piece below indeed is a curse.  the cuse says as long as chosen one outcast imported jews dont repent from murderin socalled trinity god jesus, they gonna stay nomads.  read.  

btw where in King James Version (KJV) Ezekiel - Chapter 36 that says chosen one outcast imported jews should get israel thru rapin PALESTINE n genocide PALESTINIANS?  where?  

peace

MID-EAST STRIFE:
RE-DISCOVERING THE BIBLE'S FORGOTTEN SOLUTION
By Rev. Ted Pike

The raging conflict in the Middle East sparks two essential questions. First: Do the Jews own Palestine? The answer is yes. Scripture makes it clear that the land of Palestine was given by God to the physical descendants of Abraham. (Gen. 12:7, 13-14-17- 11 Chron. 20:7; Acts 7:5)

Secondly- Do the Jews have the right to occupy Palestine? The answer to this question is no! Scripture states that if Israel rejects Jesus, (Yahweh) who brought them into Canaan, He will expel them from the land. They can never lawfully return until they are obedient to their rejected Messiah.

Yahweh's conditional terms of occupancy are bluntly laid down in Leviticus 26-27,33. "Yet if in spite of this you do not obey me, but act with hostility against me, then I will act with wrathful hostility against you ... You ... I will scatter among the nations and will draw out a sword after you, as your land becomes desolate and your cities become waste."

Deuteronomy 4:25-27 continues: "When you do that which is evil in the sight of the Lord your God so as to provoke him to anger, I call heaven and earth to witness against you today that you shall surely perish quickly from the land ... You shall not live long on it, but shall be utterly destroyed. And the Lord will scatter you among the nations, where the Lord shall drive you."

And in Deuteronomy 58:63-4- "if you are not careful to observe all the words of this law ... you shall be torn from the land where you are entering to possess it. Moreover, the Lord will scatter you among all peoples."

In the Old Testament, when Israel and Judah abandoned Yahweh, both nations were exiled from Palestine: Israel by the Assyrians in 722 B.C., Judah by the Babylonians in 597 B.C.

Only abject repentance entitled a small minority of Judeans, under Ezra and Nehemiah, to return from Babylon and again occupy their land of promise. After the remnant Jews' rejection and crucifixion of Christ, they also were scattered among the nations in fulfillment of God's ancient decree.

Since their expulsion under Titus in 70 A.D., the Jews still have not repented. They have not given Christ the obedience He demands.

Who Has Rights of Occupation? Who, then, are the legitimate occupants of Palestine today? When God exiled Judah under Nebuchadnezzar in 597 B.C. He allowed various mixed people, later called Samaritans, to occupy Judea. Such occupancy was not conditional on righteousness. What was important was that rebellious Jews not occupy the land.

Similarly, when God expelled the Jews from Palestine in 70 A.D. He allowed various peoples eventually known as Palestinian Arabs to occupy the land in lieu of Jewish obedience.

Do the Palestinians own the land? They do not. But they do have divine approval, as did the ancient Samaritans, to become tenants of the land until Israel repents.

Someday, out of great tribulation, a remnant of Jews will give God the obedience He demands. Christ will lead this believing remnant back to the land of their forefathers; they will dwell there lawfully, in peace and safety. This will be the only legitimate return the Jews will make to Palestine since their rejection of Christ 2000 years ago. It will gloriously fulfill hundreds of Old Testament prophecies. (Isa. 4:4, 10:20, 59:20; Hos.14:4; Joel 2:18-20; Zeph. 2:7, 3:11-13) Until that time, God calls heaven and earth to testify that unbelieving Jews must remain dispersed, scattered, "wandering" among the nations (Deut. 4:25-27). And yet, as in ancient Babylon, God encouraged them to build, plant,  marry and take root in the land of their dispersion, and to "seek the welfare of the city where I have sent you into exile." (Jer. 29:4-7)         

The proper role for unbelieving Jews is to dwell scattered among the very safe and prosperous Jewish communities in New York, London, Paris, etc. They are not to wrest Palestine from its divinely approved occupants, thus inciting persecution and hatred against Jews worldwide. This timeless principle of "no obedience, no occupancy" was illustrated in the time of Joshua. (Num. 13:25-33; 14:1-45) God invited the Hebrews to occupy Palestine by faith. Yet when unbelief emerged, He refused to let them in. When the people decided they wanted to penetrate the land anyway, God rejected them, ultimately condemning them to wander and die in the wilderness. Only a new, obedient generation (like the later generation under Ezra and Nehemiah) would be allowed to take root in a land dedicated to obedience.

(delete)

Therefore, the 2nd punishment had been fulfilled. My question remained unanswered.

You asked bout how they were banished when they have returned twice to which I responded they were made exiled (from their land) not banished totally.  However, they were promised that if they returned to God's way, their prayers will be fulfilled in which I have explained that after the Babylon captivity, they returned to the Torah and worshipped the One God.
---
The books were WRITTEN for them. God would gather the Hews again IN the promised land but how do you explain their banish in foreign lands until doomsday? Please be precise.

You asked why not gathered in foreign land instead of the promised land.  That, as you said, the book was written for them and a promise made to them not you nor myself.  So, if you want the answer you may have to ask Yahweh.
---
It only described the 2nd punishment which had been fulfilled. Their Temple had been ravaged to the ground. Earlier you said this: "In the Quran, the Children of Israel are meant to be in exiles until doomsday because of their arrogance and mischief in the world". So, my question remained unanswered.

And I believe I am right in saying that they are in exile until today.  In other words, if all of the Jewish people in the world are currently in Israel today, so how do you explain the Jewish people who are currently in UK, America, Argentina, India, China, Morroco etc.  Some of the ones who migrated to Israel are leaving their "homeland" to return to their "host" countries because they found life in Israel not suitable for them.
---
That is Randolph Quirk's interpretation of Diaspora which you adopt. However the majority refers to the 2000 years Diaspora.

You are definitely not familiar with the dictionary aren't you?  Out of 4 definition of "diaspora" you chose no. 4.  In a dictionary, you will find that phrases by so and so person is given as a reference to how the word first used in this case in a phrase by Randolph Quirk: the diaspora of English into several mutually incomprehensible languages.

In fact, the word "diaspora" in the bible is not even Hebrew, it's Greek.  
---
Rosie......1947 Partition Plan ..... was never implemented. British wash their hands off. Israel had to declare independence and face war within 24 hours.

First, 1947 Partition plan was UN not British, second, it was implemented in Res. 181.

If your theory that it was never implemented, then, truly enough we can say that the Jews disobyed God's commandments to claim the land as solely theirs, just because Yahweh said so.  Yahweh promised Abraham that He will give the land to his children.  Abraham had 2 children, Isaac and Ishmael, and we know Ishmael is the father of the Arabs.

[ Last edited by samerosie on 24-6-2004 at 05:47 PM ]

Another thing  I dont understand is that Jesus was borned without a father, but in Luke and Matt, Jesus was said to be of David's lineage from his father's side, Joseph, but we all know that Joseph is not Jesus biological father so how can he be related to Jesus apart from being a step father.

sonny~~

Originally posted by samerosie at 2004-6-24 05:23 PM:
Another thing  I dont understand is that Jesus was borned without a father, but in Luke and Matt, Jesus was said to be of David's lineage from his father's side, Joseph, but we all know that Joseph ...

its tricky kiddo.  jesus indeed is born not thru sperm n egg but miracuously created by god.  nonetheless hes a jew.  n trinity christians believe hes god almighty HIMSELF.  hence trinity christians believe god is racist coz their god a jew.  as i said, its tricky n utmost sensitive  

peace

You asked bout how they were banished when they have returned twice to which I responded they were made exiled (from their land) not banished totally

Ok rosie. Let's replace the word 'banish' with 'exile'. Why do you say "the Children of Israel are meant to be in exiles until doomsday" while they had returned twice? My point is, they had been punished twice. Fulfilled. Twice they returned. Why do Muslims wants to keep them away from their land after the fulfilment of the 2 punishment? Aren't they trying to make Jews the 3rd time exiled from the land? Therefore, my question: How the Jews be both exiled until doomsday while they have returned twice? To make it thrice? Remained unanswered.

You asked why not gathered in foreign land instead of the promised land.  That, as you said, the book was written for them and a promise made to them not you nor myself.  So, if you want the answer you may have to ask Yahweh

You have completely missed my point. Either by design or accident I don't know. :hmm: You have misread my quote. I didn't say why not gather them in foreign land instead of the promised land. I say "God would gather the Jews again IN the promised land but how do you explain their exile in foreign lands until doomsday?" which means if God were to gather them IN the Holy Land/Promised Land how can He do that while the Jews are supposed to be said by you exiled until doomsday? That in itself deny Jews right of return although they had fulfilled the prophesy.

And I believe I am right in saying that they are in exile until today.  In other words, if all of the Jewish people in the world are currently in Israel today, so how do you explain the Jewish people who are currently in UK, America, Argentina, India, China, Morroco etc.  Some of the ones who migrated to Israel are leaving their "homeland" to return to their "host" countries because they found life in Israel not suitable for them

So, this is your personal opinion. For the first time? LOL... ok. To me, there were only about 40,000(rough estimation lazy to check again) Jews in Palestine at the turn of this century. By 1948, when Israel declared their independence and statehood, there were about 600,000. Today there are close to 6 million and the number is still growing. Why? Because the Jewish people from all over the world are becoming more and more interested in returning to Israel!

First, 1947 Partition plan was UN not British, second, it was implemented in Res. 181

Rosie.....the 1947 Resolution 181 IS about Partition Plan. Resolution 181 was NEVER implemented....

If your theory that it was never implemented, then, truly enough we can say that the Jews disobyed God's commandments to claim the land as solely theirs, just because Yahweh said so.  Yahweh promised Abraham that He will give the land to his children.  Abraham had 2 children, Isaac and Ishmael, and we know Ishmael is the father of the Arabs

God promised that foreign nations would return the Jews to Israel. God also promised to keep his line of covenant with Abraham through Isaac. God had said to him(Abraham), "It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.". Just to quote one of it. Today we've seen Arabs are the real losers. They can never win. 4 times they launch military campaign, 4 times they lost. Hostility continues while Jews are slowly returning.

Another thing  I dont understand is that Jesus was borned without a father, but in Luke and Matt, Jesus was said to be of David's lineage from his father's side, Joseph, but we all know that Joseph is not Jesus biological father so how can he be related to Jesus apart from being a step father

Dear Little Rosie girl... Yahweh/Jehovah/Allah is God the Almighty. Mary conceived the seed of David. Joseph is betrothed to Mary. Many references referred Joseph as Mary's husband. Betroth: To promise "by one's truth." Men and women were betrothed when they were engaged to be married. This usually took place a year or more before marriage. From the time of betrothal the woman was regarded as the lawful wife of the man to whom she was betrothed (Deuteronomy 28: 30; Judges 14: 2,8; Matthew 1: 18-21). The term is figuratively employed of the spiritual connection between God and his people (Hosea 2: 19,20).

Debmey

I'm amazed that samerosie is still using all those outdated 101 Bible contradictions that have been answer 20 years ago and widely available on the net.

Eokboy

I thought this is a politics board?

Debmey

Islam is a political religion.

sonny~~

Originally posted by Debmey at 2004-6-24 09:33 PM:
I'm amazed that samerosie is still using all those outdated 101 Bible contradictions that have been answer 20 years ago and widely available on the net.

HARDproof now.  otherwise u're a liar.  simple  

peace

sonny~~

Originally posted by Debmey at 2004-6-25 02:59 AM:
Islam is a political religion.

trinity is a blindfolded religion  

peace

sonny~~

Originally posted by Adm_Cheng_Ho at 2004-6-24 06:07 PM:

Dear Little Rosie girl... Yahweh/Jehovah/Allah is God the Almighty. Mary conceived the seed of David. Joseph is betrothed to Mary. Many references referred Joseph as Mary's hu ...

where u get the idea mary conceived the seed of david?  who put it there?  dont ASSume, puttin 2 n 2 to make seed or trinity etc stick.  read  

peace

Book of Matthew
Chapter 1  

1:18 - [In Context]
Now this is how Jesus the Messiah was born. His mother, Mary, was engaged to be married to Joseph. But while she was still a virgin, she became pregnant by the Holy Spirit.
  
1:19 - [In Context]
Joseph, her fianc‚, being a just man, decided to break the engagement quietly, so as not to disgrace her publicly.

1:20 - [In Context]
As he considered this, he fell asleep, and an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream. "Joseph, son of David," the angel said, "do not be afraid to go ahead with your marriage to Mary. For the child within her has been conceived by the Holy Spirit.
   
1:21 - [In Context]
And she will have a son, and you are to name him Jesus, F7 for he will save his people from their sins."
  


[ Last edited by sonny~~ on 25-6-2004 at 11:23 AM ]

sonny~~

the HARDfact remains jesus is jew coz marys jew. that makes trinity god jew coz trinity christians believe jewish jesus is god almighty HIMSELF  :hmm:

Sonny,

Thanks.  That's what I said earlier, Jesus was borned without a father.  He was not the biological son of Joseph so how can, in Luke and Matt. says that Jesus is of David lineage when it is shown in the bible that the connection to David was by Joseph.
--
I'm amazed that samerosie is still using all those outdated 101 Bible contradictions that have been answer 20 years ago and widely available on the net.

I don't have to look at the net, I read the bible and there are things that are urm ... not logic.  For example, in Genesis, God created the world in 6 days.  One the first day, He said let there be light and separate between the night and day.  Then on the third day He has already made all the vegetations on earth.  He only created the sun on the fourth day (??) when he has already created the Night and Day on the first day.

Scientifically we know that this is impossible.

Ok rosie. Let's replace the word 'banish' with 'exile'. Why do you say "the Children of Israel are meant to be in exiles until doomsday" while they had returned twice? My point is, they had been punished twice. Fulfilled. Twice they returned.

That is according to the Quran, they will be punished twice (in which I have explained earlier why I thought that they may have been punished twice although we do not know, based on the Quran if being exile twice were those punishments). But we do know historically, they have first been exiled by the Assyrians, the second time by Babylonians and the third time by the Romans.  At the same time, the Quran also states that they will become great tyrants in which I explained that apart from Joshua taking Canaan by force and David抯 expansionism of his kingdom, the Jews had always been conquered not the conqueror until recently, the creation of  Israel.

However, according to the OT, it抯 a different thing.  Reading the OT, the Lord made them promises but will take the promises back should they go astray.  And it has been like a game, one minute the Lord gave them the land, then took it back, then let them return, then took it back then gave them back then took it back etc.  The moral of OT is redemption.  The Lord said OK if you repent and return to My Ways, I promise I抣l make you prosper in your land, BUT if you are stubborn, I promise you will pay and it has been that way until Hosea died.
----
Why do Muslims wants to keep them away from their land after the fulfilment of the 2 punishment? Aren't they trying to make Jews the 3rd time exiled from the land? Therefore, my question: How the Jews be both exiled until doomsday while they have returned twice? To make it thrice? Remained unanswered.

As I said earlier, the Quran only mentioned two punishments.  There isn抰 any third one.  The Quran says that God will gather ALL children of Israel in the promise land (when the End is coming).   Now, are all the people in Israel encompasses ALL children of Israel?  No, because there are still Jews all over the world.
---
You have completely missed my point. Either by design or accident I don't know.  You have misread my quote. I didn't say why not gather them in foreign land instead of the promised land. I say "God would gather the Jews again IN the promised land but how do you explain their exile in foreign lands until doomsday?"

This is what you said :  My question to you: How do the Jews be condemned into exiles until doomsday while God gather his children again in the promised land and not in foreign land?  

If I had missed your point, it was by your design, intentionally or otherwise.
----
So, this is your personal opinion. For the first time? LOL... ok. To me, there were only about 40,000(rough estimation lazy to check again) Jews in Palestine at the turn of this century. By 1948, when Israel declared their independence and statehood, there were about 600,000. Today there are close to 6 million and the number is still growing. Why? Because the Jewish people from all over the world are becoming more and more interested in returning to Israel!

I think you should read more than hanging in here too much.  People do "reproduce"!  LOL Out of 100% of Jews who 搑eturned

sonny~~

u have wisdom u have brain u have guts  :bgrin:

Ok rosie. Let's replace the word 'banish' with 'exile'. Why do you say "the Children of Israel are meant to be in exiles until doomsday" while they had

returned twice? My point is, they had been punished twice. Fulfilled. Twice they returned. Why do Muslims wants to keep them away from their land after the fulfilment of the 2 punishment? Aren't they trying to make Jews the 3rd time exiled from the land? Therefore, my question: How the Jews be both exiled until doomsday while they have returned twice? To make it thrice? Remained unanswered.

Adm please think wisely, Rosie had given you a very detailed explaination.Why do Muslims want to keep the jews away from their land after the fulfilment of the 2 punishment, it is  because the muslims  are the believer of the quran,  the reason the muslims keep them away from their land is to slow down the progress of the end of the days. It may sound lame to you but it helps you too so that you still have more time to enjoy yourself..LOL!

Well im amazed with rosie's postings . It makes me think that those people like Adm and Debmey who support israel and want all  the jews to  gather in Israel are infact like to see the end of the days. my question is, are you ready to face end of the days? If you think you need lots of time to enjoy yourself, by all means do so by now  before all the jews including avril lavigne makes her concert in Israel and go back to their promise land. If the muslims believe that the last day Avril Lavigne does her concert in her own promise land will be the end of the day as promised to  us. I wonder whether rosie agrees with me or not and I also wonder whether Adm and Debmey like to book the ticket for lavigne's last concert!:music::cak:

[ Last edited by WICKED on 25-6-2004 at 04:46 PM ]

Agul

rosie,

your posting is quite good but could you please differentiate others text from yours. You could use bold font for others text and normal font for your comment.

This way, it's easier for all to read and understand.